Forced Vaccination is Wrong

CabinetMaker

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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31703835



http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/03/pakistan-war-polio-workers

Do you believe me now?

It's happening in Africa, heck all over the world and even the Catholic Church is in an uproar over what vaccinations are doing to the girls, destroying their future Catholics.
But do understand WHY they are fighting against vaccinations? I'll give you a hint, it has more to do with politics than the effectiveness of the vaccines.



As though 30 cases a year warrants endangering children in their education and careers when we have other ways of dealing with it and the vaccine does not protect you like you imagine! How can you explain how high titers in a fully boosted person allows them to get lockjaw? It HAS happened, repeatedly!
Did you ever stop to think that there are only 30 cases per year because the vaccine prevents many, many more form happening?



This whole thread was started on the basis of the crime against humanity, the breaking of the Nuremburg Code over forcing vaccines on attendees to school/daycare/established medical careers in the last few years.
What the Nazis did was a crime against humanity. What routine childhood vaccinations do is a prudent public health management.



You mean it doesn't matter to you because it will never make you feel that it's wrong to force a RISKY non-contagion vaccine on little children. (Most of whom live in the cities, btw, they don't work with or inhale horse manure or farm dirt like you! Most children are more exposed to hand sanitizer than dirt.)
Tetanus is not limited to horse farms. It is found everywhere, including in cities and on playgrounds.



And that's why I'm doing all this research. But you are right, you will never convince me forcing kids to get a vaccine to be home or public-schooled is wrong, even if the vaccines that you trust in did actually work as advertised.
Given that we know the vaccines actually work, your comment is just plane fear mongering. Your research is focused only on supporting your views. You are not intellectually honest enough to give both sides of the issue equal time. My wife and I have. We know vaccines are not perfect and there are real risks associated with them. We also know that there are real risks associated with NOT vaccinating our kids. Given the relative risks involved, we made our decisions accordingly.

Because you agree, there will always be risks and those risks are nobody else's but the individuals themselves, with informed consent, to take.
This is not a true statement. The risks you refuse to take expose others to reals risks as well. You do not live on an island. What you do effects those around you whether you intend it to or not.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
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Big medicine has been paying his bills for a long time, too. Checks from that pharmacy job just kept rolling in until his whole family became cemented believers.
If you honestly believe this your are naive in the extreme.

Bill and Melinda Gates are just big money-bag angels with needles. :angel:
At least they are trying to make a difference.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/bill-g...testing-tribal-children-with-vaccines/5407864

Out of a 16,000 strong group of girls they tested many fell ill and 5 died, making it one of the highest vaccine associated death rates I've heard of. I SERIOUSLY doubt 5 would have naturally died of cervical cancer.
Okay, here is a question for you regarding these numbers, how were they calculated? Was there a control group? What was the cancer rate in the control group versus the vaccinated group. How long were both groups followed? Were other causes of cervical cancer controlled for? One data point by itself does not provide much usable information.
 

1PeaceMaker

New member
If you honestly believe this your are naive in the extreme.

Naivety would be believing that making a living off pharmaceuticals wouldn't influence a person.

At least they are trying to make a difference.

They're being charged with crimes against humanity in India.

Okay, here is a question for you regarding these numbers, how were they calculated? Was there a control group? What was the cancer rate in the control group versus the vaccinated group. How long were both groups followed? Were other causes of cervical cancer controlled for? One data point by itself does not provide much usable information.

That's because you understand none of the context. You are rushing through your reading of the thread, and it shows. I understand, emotions can run high on issues like this. They do for me. It can shut down critical thinking if you let it.

The Gates are deep in vaccine research scandals and getting heat for it.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
Naivety would be believing that making a living off pharmaceuticals wouldn't influence a person.
Really? So all those doctors who are opposed to vaccinations are hypocrites because doctors make money from administering vaccines? Interesting. That doesn't seem to help your case much.



They're being charged with crimes against humanity in India.
And if they are guilty of it then they should be punished. If they are guilty.



That's because you understand none of the context. You are rushing through your reading of the thread, and it shows. I understand, emotions can run high on issues like this. They do for me. It can shut down critical thinking if you let it.
So you have no empirical data to offer. I'm an engineer, one data point offered with questionable context is not going to be sufficient to determine the meaning of the data point.

The Gates are deep in vaccine research scandals and getting heat for it.
 

1PeaceMaker

New member
But do understand WHY they are fighting against vaccinations? I'll give you a hint, it has more to do with politics than the effectiveness of the vaccines.

Do you expect the mainstream media to completely and accurately report what is happening around the world, when vaccines are political tools and businessmen and politicians influence reporting in war times? Why would the other side be allowed to tell us their story?

Did you ever stop to think that there are only 30 cases per year because the vaccine prevents many, many more form happening?

Do you really believe that neonatal tetanus is so low in the USA because of vaccines?

What the Nazis did was a crime against humanity. What routine childhood vaccinations do is a prudent public health management.

Even though I can call to mind 5 major religions with strong opposition to them in less than 2 minutes? Without Google?

Tetanus is not limited to horse farms. It is found everywhere, including in cities and on playgrounds.

Are you going to argue that first world children are just as exposed as children on farms in the third world?

Here's what works against tetanus without vaccines;

For those who are averse to immunizations, tetanus immunity can be boosted naturally by taking vitamin E , according to a study from Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts. To get the most benefit, 200 mg should be taken daily.

Keeping wounds and scratches clean is important in preventing infection. Since C. tetani grows only in the absence of oxygen, the wounds must be adequately cleaned of dead tissue and foreign substances. Run cool water over the wound and wash it with a mild soap. Dry it with a clean cloth or sterile gauze. To help prevent infection, apply an antibiotic cream or ointment and cover the wound with a bandage. Try the castor oil remedy. The longer a wound takes to heal, the greater the chance of infection. Consult a doctor if the wound doesn't heal, if it is red or warm, or if it drains or swells.

You are not intellectually honest enough to give both sides of the issue equal time.

After proof that children have been injured by vaccines, I don't need to give forced vaccination another thought.

It's a no-go.

But violating a person against their conscience or consent, even in the absence of physical harm is absolutely a crime against humanity.

We know vaccines are not perfect and there are real risks associated with them.

Yet despite the harm caused by hep B and tetanus, you still would deny kids a cultural rite of passage and tool for future success that their parents pay for (public school) and possibly stand idly by while parents have their kids taken over it.


We also know that there are real risks associated with NOT vaccinating our kids.

Your rights end where my nose begins, remember? And putting polysorbate 80 under my skin is well beyond your right.

This is not a true statement. The risks you refuse to take expose others to reals risks as well. You do not live on an island. What you do effects those around you whether you intend it to or not.

Then you have no right to eat junk food or waste electricity. Somebody, control that man's energy consumption and food choices!
 

elohiym

Well-known member
Going back to the Forbes created Dr. Lipson vs. Dr. Sears controversy where Lipson has called for Sears to lose his license because he falsely claims that Sears is anti-vaccination. Here is what Dr. Sears believes:


I already provided the links that prove Lipson's patient satisfaction rating was three stars (below the national average) and that his employer received money from vaccine manufacturers. In contrast, Dr. Sears has a five-star patient satisfaction rating.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
http://www.globalresearch.ca/bill-g...testing-tribal-children-with-vaccines/5407864

Out of a 16,000 strong group of girls they tested many fell ill and 5 died, making it one of the highest vaccine associated death rates I've heard of. I SERIOUSLY doubt 5 would have naturally died of cervical cancer.

If you convert this to a percentage you get this: (5/16000)*100% = 0.03125%

If you look at India, we find the following:


Cervical cancer is ranked as the most frequent cancer in women in India. India has a population of approximately 365.71 million women above 15 years of age, who are at risk of developing cervical cancer. The current estimates indicate approximately 132,000 new cases diagnosed and 74,000 deaths annually in India, accounting to nearly 1/3rd of the global cervical cancer deaths.[4] Indian women face a 2.5% cumulative lifetime risk and 1.4% cumulative death risk from cervical cancer.



.03125% risk of death from the vaccine versus versus 1.4% risk of death from cervical cancer. Said a bit differently, your chances of dying from cervical cancer in India are 45 times greater than your risk of dying from a vaccination.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
.03125% risk of death from the vaccine versus versus 1.4% risk of death from cervical cancer. Said a bit differently, your chances of dying from cervical cancer in India are 45 times greater than your risk of dying from a vaccination.

If the vaccine does not prevent cervical cancer, you are only adding risk by getting vaccinated. I'm not convinced the vaccine prevents cervical cancer, and I'm certain it wasn't properly tested for safety (the placebo in clinical trials containing aluminum adjuvant, which is an antigen, and other vaccine ingredients does not qualify as a placebo).
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
If the vaccine does not prevent cervical cancer, you are only adding risk by getting vaccinated.
If. Thats a big if. The clinical trials indicate that it does offer protection.

I'm not convinced the vaccine prevents cervical cancer, and I'm certain it wasn't properly tested for safety (the placebo in clinical trials containing aluminum adjuvant, which is an antigen, and other vaccine ingredients does not qualify as a placebo).
No drug that enters the US market is completely tested for safety. It is economically impossible to do so. The sample populations used in clinical trials are to small to accurately represent the entire population for all cases. There have been a few drugs recalled over the last few years that were found to have many more severe side effects than the clinical trials indicated. Such is the nature of medicine.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
I Googled "catholic church fighting sterilization vaccines"

O scrolled through a couple of pages of hits paying attention to the sources that are posting and following this story. Most illuminating.

The HSD-hCG vaccine prevents pregnancy in women: feasibility study of a reversible safe contraceptive vaccine.

PROBLEM: To develop a vaccine for reversible control of fertility in women. MATERIALS AND PROTOCOLS: Purified beta subunit of hCG annealed to purified alpha subunit of ovine LH linked chemically to tetanus toxoid (TT)...

It was successful.

The vaccine was highly effective in preventing pregnancy (1 pregnancy in 1224 cycles) at and above antibody titres of 50 ng/ml.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
That was rather the point, the facts are questionable. Especially regarding motive.

There is no question researchers have developed an hCG/tetanus contraceptive vaccine.

What motives are you questioning? The U.S. government did secret experiments on unwitting citizens during the Cold War, as evidenced by Congressional hearings, so I'm not surprised a clandestine operation of that nature was undertaken by some government overseas. What was the U.S. government's motivation in conducting those experiments on her citizens? The current U.S. administration knowingly abused children by using a hepatitis B vaccination program as a cover operation to obtain DNA from within Bin Laden's compound in Pakistan. Motivation?
 

elohiym

Well-known member
It was not developed specifically to sterilize Kenya.

Did I claim it was? No.

Not also that the drug developed is reversible.

Yes. That would make it well suited for clandestine population control in places like China or for population control in the "brave new world" that appears to be emerging. All you need is a vaccine schedule where tetanus is required every x number of years and a desire to prevent pregnancies.
 

1PeaceMaker

New member
Yes, it was. You can now go to your doctor and get this shot in lieu of other forms of birth control. It was not developed specifically to sterilize Kenya. Not also that the drug developed is reversible.

What about the women sterilized without consent in trials? Why would we expect accurate studies from people doing this without permission to women and girls?

How reversible can women trust the vaccine to be?
 

1PeaceMaker

New member
That was rather the point, the facts are questionable. Especially regarding motive.

What motive would the Catholic Church have to avoid tetanus vaccines in the third world for their vulnerable neonates? Aren't they all about pushing for big families and no birth control? Could they be trying to protect the babies that they baptize?


How's that for motive?
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
There is no question researchers have developed an hCG/tetanus contraceptive vaccine.

What motives are you questioning? The U.S. government did secret experiments on unwitting citizens during the Cold War, as evidenced by Congressional hearings, so I'm not surprised a clandestine operation of that nature was undertaken by some government overseas. What was the U.S. government's motivation in conducting those experiments on her citizens? The current U.S. administration knowingly abused children by using a hepatitis B vaccination program as a cover operation to obtain DNA from within Bin Laden's compound in Pakistan. Motivation?
Well, in this case its the motive of the US Military complex versus the motive of those attempting to vaccinate third world nations. Personally, I don't think Bill and Linda are stooges of the US military secretly attempting to implement a clandestine sterilization program.

Did I claim it was? No.
Within the context of this thread, your implication was quite clear.



Yes. That would make it well suited for clandestine population control in places like China or for population control in the "brave new world" that appears to be emerging. All you need is a vaccine schedule where tetanus is required every x number of years and a desire to prevent pregnancies.
Sorry, I don't but into the conspiracy theories. A conspiracy this large would rapidly collapse under its own weight. Is it possible? Sure. Is it probable? That number approaches zero.
 
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