For those holding to some form of Universal Reconciliation
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Eagles Wings
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Me, too, and I'm enjoying (and learning from) your posts.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
That is because there is no sound basis by which any can so respond . . .
Nang
TOL Subscriber
In my opinion, the eternal purpose of God is to separate and save His elect sheep from non-elect goats who attract all kinds of wolves and predators that bring danger and harm to the flock.
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You are right. I think that we can treat that as God's vision on what would happen in the timeline of eternity.
Prodigal Son is a Story of Universal Salvation
Prodigal Son is a Story of Universal Salvation
But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion for him, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. 21 And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ 22 But the father said to his slaves, ‘Quickly bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet; 23 and bring the fattened calf, kill it, and let us eat and celebrate; 24 for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’ And they began to celebrate.
25 “Now his older son was in the field, and when he came and approached the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 And he summoned one of the servants and began inquiring what these things could be. 27 And he said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has received him back safe and sound.’ 28 But he became angry and was not willing to go in; and his father came out and began pleading with him. 29 But he answered and said to his father, ‘Look! For so many years I have been serving you and I have never neglected a command of yours; and yet you have never given me a young goat, so that I might celebrate with my friends; 30 but when this son of yours came, who has devoured your wealth with prostitutes, you killed the fattened calf for him.’ 31 And he said to him, ‘Son, you have always been with me, and all that is mine is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and rejoice, for this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found.’”
When the tribulation comes the younger son will return.
Don't be nasty like the older son.
Prodigal Son is a Story of Universal Salvation
But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion for him, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. 21 And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ 22 But the father said to his slaves, ‘Quickly bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet; 23 and bring the fattened calf, kill it, and let us eat and celebrate; 24 for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’ And they began to celebrate.
25 “Now his older son was in the field, and when he came and approached the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 And he summoned one of the servants and began inquiring what these things could be. 27 And he said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has received him back safe and sound.’ 28 But he became angry and was not willing to go in; and his father came out and began pleading with him. 29 But he answered and said to his father, ‘Look! For so many years I have been serving you and I have never neglected a command of yours; and yet you have never given me a young goat, so that I might celebrate with my friends; 30 but when this son of yours came, who has devoured your wealth with prostitutes, you killed the fattened calf for him.’ 31 And he said to him, ‘Son, you have always been with me, and all that is mine is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and rejoice, for this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found.’”
When the tribulation comes the younger son will return.
Don't be nasty like the older son.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
This is a good example of the Universalist extrapolation based on a presupposition that isn't in scripture. There is nothing universal about this - other than that God is merciful to all who come to Him in humility and repentance. To call it universal is to misapply the magnitude of the mercy of God over "one sinner who repents" to being so extensive that it covers all mankind. Certainly, those who are the recipients of such Amazing Grace might well be forgiven for being overwhelmed by God's forgiveness and His unfathomable mercy to "me" but it is not scriptural to take that and say that because it is so immense, it will eventually cover everyone.
Read again what Jesus said in Luke 19:27...
Perhaps I am just a "nice guy" who wants all to be saved.
But why not?
If Jesus loves us why wouldn't he save everyone?
nikolai_42
Well-known member
There's a difference between hoping God does save everyone and trying to establish it with scripture. I won't say it's utterly impossible, but our fidelity needs to be to scripture otherwise we are making our own theology apart from the revelation of God (which is idolatry, as far as I can see). I can fathom people (truly) hoping for all to eventually be saved, but what they proclaim would still have to be in subjection to (and not contradiction with) God's Word - all of it. If it is possible to be consistent with it and still maintain universal salvation, then it is at least feasible (I don't necessarily say correct). But almost inevitably, I see those that very quickly inject those hopes into scripture in a way that is....not scriptural. You made the claim that the prodigal son was about universal salvation. That's not just hoping all will be saved, that's having the presupposition that this one passage teaches it. Such isolation of scripture is common in Universalistic circles (but certainly not the only place it is found). Even if Universalism were true (which I don't believe it is), that passage does not in any way teach it. And the concern is that you read that into the passage and then say you simply want all to be saved. That injection of our "wants" and limited understanding is just the problem that I see with this position. It sounds nice, but it avoids the real issue - is it scriptural?
1 John 2:2 KJV -
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Universal and divine overlooking of sin, would waive and deny the Godly attribute of Justice.
God is love. God is also just.
Neither attribute can be denied, changed, nor argued.
False Prophet
New member
The Bahai believe that all religions are good.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Which is (partly) why I can see someone believing that somehow, all will eventually be saved. But when that belief subordinates the rest of scripture to it without warrant, it isn't any longer a scriptural hope or doctrine. I have no problem believing there are mysteries God still holds to Himself - just as the mystery of salvation going to the ends of the earth (i.e. beyond Israel) in Christ was hid until God pleased to reveal it. But because it was hid, the only warrant the prophets had was to prophesy and teach as they did. We are responsible for the revelation God has provided. And when that revelation includes "repent and believe the gospel" and the necessity to know God through His Son Jesus Christ - or remain under condemnation (John 3:16-17) - to preach "all will eventually be saved" is to at best undermine the revealed message, or at worst contradict (and deny) it. Neither are favorable positions in which to be.
As to that verse specifically, how is that substantially different than John 14:6?
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:6
Or Acts 4:12?
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Acts 4:12
It (I John 2:2) reads (as I see it) as implying universal sufficiency but exclusive necessity. It speaks of Christ's role, not man's realization. When you go on reading in I John 2, you find John saying this :
I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
I John 2:12-13
He is not speaking to the whole world here - as though the whole world has its sins forgiven it - but to those who have been forgiven and who know the Father. As he goes on in the chapter, he makes it clear that the salvation Christ brought is only to those that know Him (note I John 2:25 that it is the "we" who has eternal life...see also John 17:3). John is delineating in that chapter (the whole letter, really) who is of God and who is not. If he was trying to make a universalistic statement, it's lost in a whole host of distinctions between those who have life and those who don't.