For Sincere Inquisitors ONLY: MAD Explained

[john w]

Oh ye of little faith,

John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

This was spoken almost 3 years before his crucifixion, of that is not a prophecy then yes perhaps we are using a different definition, I am using the Biblical one, and you? :juggle:

what are you afraid of that you have to continually bombard people with insults like "clueless" and "unsaved" it's o.k. if you don't know something and someone else does no one here is going to chastise you for it, so relax and fear not, John 13:35.

keep shinin

jerm

Nope. That is not a reference to Him bearing the sins of the world as the sin offering in the future-it is a reference to the scapegoat sent out, bearing infirmities, sickness, grief- presently, at that time.

John the Baptist was cluless that He would die for the sins of the world-every body was. He was expecting a "King David" Messiah, not "the Suffering Servant:"

Luke 7:19-22:

19 And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?

20When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?

21And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight.

22Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

John the Baptist was clueless-put in prison, "things were not were working out as He expected." He had no clue that the Lord Jesus Christ was to be crucified, be buried, rise again. That was not His expectation, or anybody's.

Luke 18:
31Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

32For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:

33And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

34And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were

Next. Study what the definition of prophet is. Then, we will talk.

# Acts 11:27
And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.

# Acts 13:1
Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

Acts 15:32
And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.

Look at the women prophetess's in the book.

No record of any of these "prophets" forthtelling. None.

 

[jeremysdemo]

Nope. That is not a reference to Him bearing the sins of the world as the sin offering in the future-it is a reference to the scapegoat sent out, bearing infirmities, sickness, grief- presently, at that time.

THe text says Lamb and you say goat....who am I supposed to believe?

You'll have to forgive me but I'm stickin with WOG on this one....

John the Baptist was cluless that He would die for the sins of the world-every body was. He was expecting a "King David" Messiah, not "the Suffering Servant:"

Well that's nice of you to say, when you get your head physically cut off for what you believe then you will have room to talk about him.
He clearly says the Lamb of God, I am sorry if you find him clueless for it.

Was king David EVER called the Lamb of God? sorry no correlation to be made there....it's just not in the Bible.

OK so maybe this wasn't a prophecy, John says Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world......and by coincidence that just happen to happen....

I do like how you and zeke constantly refer to the apostles and other prophets of the Bible as clueless.....you both realize these are the people we are getting our stories and instructions from....:juggle:

boy if they are clueless writing those stories all those decades after the cross God help the rest of us common folk.....:jawdrop:

It is nice to see you finally using scripture John, but man your really go through some textual gymnastics to try and get the passages to say what you want them to, changing Lamb to goat, etc etc...wouldn't it just be better to accept what it says as plain truth? and agree that there are anointed ones of God in the Bible whom say things that later come to pass? Mark 13:2, it's not a bad thing....but for the benefit of he who hears it.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[graceandpeace]

But I do agree...Jesus did fulfill the Law....but not the future prophesies.....that will occur after the rapture when God again deals with Israel as a nation chosen.

The Mosaic rituals/observances/ceremonies will again be done in the Millenium. But then the Kingdom will be in place.

I am not a futurist concerning the millenium, so it is hard to come to the same mindset on this.

I believe God gave the gospel to Abraham 430 years before the law was added; so it is the way of God; not the law later added; all those of faith walked by faith/gospel, and the law was only added to bring about condemnation and, to show through the rituals/ordinances/ceremonies the hope of a better day. That better day came via the new covenant, so there is no need in going back, the future engrafting of Israel will be done through FAITH/gospel, not law, in mho.

If the new covenant was not available it would be back by law; but I don't hold to the view that it is yet future..we all enter salvation through it now; so there is no way that God would remove it...it is an eternal covenant, in His blood, and cannot be broken.

 

[Pam Baldwin]

Then why is it that in fundamental Christian circles a prophet is one whom predicts future events that then come to pass? or knows certain things about people that only God can know? like a psychic.

Jerm:
There are no prophets today. The Scriptures are complete. I cor 13:10. The were completed with Paul. What kind of future events do these so-called -prophets predict? Nothing to do with Biblical or God etc...."certain
things about people"? Why would a prophet be wasting time predicting that Mary will lose her job next week? Ben owned a red car in 1973??

There are whole branches of Christianity devoted to this, prophetic conferences, seminars, etc etc.

I know some people say prophecy like this is a gifting and that these things ceased with the Apostles, but in Paul's case it never started. :think:

You do know that the Bible has stipulations and guidelines for determining of one is a prophet or not.

keep shinin

jerm

Yes, the stipulations are that what ever they said must be true and/or come true....I said that about Paul because the things that I mentioned are still future events. That's why they haven't happened yet....it's not that they did not happen and he was wrong.

 

[jeremysdemo]

Jerm:
There are no prophets today. The Scriptures are complete. I cor 13:10. The were completed with Paul. What kind of future events do these so-called -prophets predict? Nothing to do with Biblical or God etc...."certain
things about people"? Why would a prophet be wasting time predicting that Mary will lose her job next week? Ben owned a red car in 1973??

So the woman will be prepared ahead of time for the event? isn't that sort of the point of prophecy?
God giving warnings so His people can avoid calamity?

You have to admit it is common in a large amount of churches....and that is what the world receives as a view of Christianity....

Yes, the stipulations are that what ever they said must be true and/or come true....I said that about Paul because the things that I mentioned are still future events. That's why they haven't happened yet....it's not that they did not happen and he was wrong.

Don't get me wrong Pam I was not trying to say that implied or otherwise....there are many many apocalyptic prophecies in the both the OT and NT that will and can only occur at the end....hence the name apocalyptic.

However, most if not all of these prophets ALSO predicted things that did come to pass.(excluding Paul and arguably the writer of Revelation although it could be debated some of that did happen in Ancient times)

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Pam Baldwin]

Oh ye of little faith,

John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

This was spoken almost 3 years before his crucifixion, of that is not a prophecy then yes perhaps we are using a different definition, I am using the Biblical one, and you? :juggle:

what are you afraid of that you have to continually bombard people with insults like "clueless" and "unsaved" it's o.k. if you don't know something and someone else does no one here is going to chastise you for it, so relax and fear not, John 13:35.

keep shinin

jerm

You are right jerm. The hidden mystery that was hid IN GOD Eph 3:9 was that there was to be an elect group that was one ... the Body of Christ. Not the sufferings and death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That was IN Scripture.....if it was hid, it was hid in Scripture, and that is not what Scriptures say about the hidden mystery......it was hid IN GOD before the foundation of the world.

Well, I need to go watch the Steeler-Jets game...
GO STEELERS!!!

 

[graceandpeace]

Oh ye of little faith,

John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

This was spoken almost 3 years before his crucifixion, of that is not a prophecy then yes perhaps we are using a different definition, I am using the Biblical one, and you? :juggle:

what are you afraid of that you have to continually bombard people with insults like "clueless" and "unsaved" it's o.k. if you don't know something and someone else does no one here is going to chastise you for it, so relax and fear not, John 13:35.

keep shinin

jerm

Great example; of a prophetic spoken word!

:chuckle:

 

[jeremysdemo]

Well, I need to go watch the Steeler-Jets game...
GO STEELERS!!!

Amen to that!

later then.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[graceandpeace]

yep Pam..here it is again, perhaps if we post it over and over they will see it?
The mystery that was hidden was the the gentiles would be made partakers of the same body as Israel..it was made known by the new covenant:

Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:


Eph 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.


Eph 3:8 ¶ Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;


Eph 3:9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

The bible even calls it the "fellowship of the mystery" for this reason..God ONE fellowship, out of jew and greek.

 

[jeremysdemo]

Great example; of a prophetic spoken word!

:chuckle:

I don't get it.

Are you saying you agree John the Baptist prophesied over Jesus and called him the Lamb of God to take away the sins of the world? or are you trying to put that on me for something I said?

It is hard to know with the chuckle going on if you are being serious and rejoicing in agreement over Gods word or sarcastically implying something else.

I don't know you that well. but care not to jump to conclusions.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[john w]

THe text says Lamb and you say goat....who am I supposed to believe?

You'll have to forgive me but I'm stickin with WOG on this one....



Well that's nice of you to say, when you get your head physically cut off for what you believe then you will have room to talk about him.
He clearly says the Lamb of God, I am sorry if you find him clueless for it.

Was king David EVER called the Lamb of God? sorry no correlation to be made there....it's just not in the Bible.

OK so maybe this wasn't a prophecy, John says Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world......and by coincidence that just happen to happen....

I do like how you and zeke constantly refer to the apostles and other prophets of the Bible as clueless.....you both realize these are the people we are getting our stories and instructions from....:juggle:

boy if they are clueless writing those stories all those decades after the cross God help the rest of us common folk.....:jawdrop:

It is nice to see you finally using scripture John, but man your really go through some textual gymnastics to try and get the passages to say what you want them to, changing Lamb to goat, etc etc...wouldn't it just be better to accept what it says as plain truth? and agree that there are anointed ones of God in the Bible whom say things that later come to pass? Mark 13:2, it's not a bad thing....but for the benefit of he who hears it.

keep shinin

jerm

"It is nice to see you finally using scripture John, but man your really go through some textual gymnastics to try and get the passages to say what you want them to, changing Lamb to goat, etc etc...wouldn't it just be better to accept what it says as plain truth? and agree that there are anointed ones of God in the Bible whom say things that later come to pass? Mark 13:2, it's not a bad thing....but for the benefit of he who hears it."-spinner

Funny, clown. I've given you scripture over the years, but, being the kid you are(1 Cor. 3), you spit it up, on your bunny shirt, as you cannot bear meat. So, the LORD God tells me to just give you milk.

You have given us scripture? Sure you have=all of the scripture, according to you, is specifically directed to all of us, for our obedience. And then you just spam any scripture, and spam a sound byte, and then think, "I showed him a thing or two." Impressive. Take a bow, actor.


"Was king David EVER called the Lamb of God? sorry no correlation to be made there....it's just not in the Bible."-Jerm

What a mess. John was expecting a warrior Messiah, A king. And, hence, His puzzlement-expect another? He was clueless the Messiah was to die.

Poor you that you do not get that.


Nope. As shown you, no one knew at that time that Christ was going to be put to death. The 11 were clueless. John the Baptist was clueless, witness his puzzlement that he was in prison, and his message to the Lord. "What the heck is happening?". He was expecting the warrior King Messiah, not a suffering servant. It was not until the Sanhedrin declared the Lord Jesus Christ's destruction(Mt. 12:32), that the Lord Jesus Christ revealed that He was going to die. Again, the 11 were clueless. Everyone was. The passover lamb did not represent "bearing sin," and a lamb was never the sin offering victim. Nor was it "the sin of the world" that the scapegoat bore away-it was the sins of Israel, per Lev. 16:21. The "bearing of the sin of the world" is not a reference to, a prophecy, pointing to Calvary, but a revelation of what the Lord Jesus Christ was during His earthly ministry. "taketh away"-taking up and carrying burdens, not a "sacrificial" term here.

His earthly ministry-sin bearer, in the sense of taking up and carrying burdens-his groans and tears at the grave of his friend Lazarus....He took up and bore the burden of human sin; not, during His earthly life as to guilt(that was not until Calvary), but as to sufferings and sorrows it brought upon all of mankind:

Is. 53:7
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

No sacrificial language is intended here, as slaughter merely means "shambles," It foretold of the Christ's earthly life of "humbling Himself", and suffering.


"boy if they are clueless writing those stories all those decades after the cross God help the rest of us common folk.."-Jermy

Show us where the 12 ever knew about Christ's death, until it was revealed nearly 3 years after John 1:29. Show us. I showed you scripture that they had no idea. Peter tried to prevent the Lord's death.

You made that up-your church SOF taught you that, not the book.

Get saved.

 

[Zeke]

jeremysdemoI do like how you and zeke constantly refer to the apostles and other prophets of the Bible as clueless.....you both realize these are the people we are getting our stories and instructions from....:juggle:
keep shinin

jerm un

All I have ever implied about them was they were ignorant of the death, buriel, and resurrection, and that it was hid from them on purpose, and they deserted the Lord along with Peters denial before the cross, which shows they all failed under the old covenant demands. And I added they became powerfull witness afterward (the cross) by the Spirit which is backed up by the scriptures that refer to those facts. So your adding your :kookoo: spin :yawn: (which you are the :king: of) to what I said to make it sound like I disrepected them.

Its not my fault you reject the blood of Christ and can't handle the progression of the message that dealt with national, and adamic issues.

Like I said you have yet to have your eyes opened to Romans 10:4.

Plus how can one really have a debate with you when every scripture that proves a point against you, is swiftly discredited as being non-scriptural rants from a phony apostle. Well your the replacement phony who sadly like some christians wants to steal Israels covenant, and promises.

But enough of this Elvis, Chickenman will pluck both of us for side tracking his intent, so adios righteous one :wave2::wave:.

 

[godrulz]

Saul to Paul:
These things were never known, until Paul revealed them


STP is correct that the Mystery was hidden, but it was hidden IN GOD, not the OT Scriptures.

Maybe Rom 16:26 seems to say that it is now revealed "by the Scriptures of the prophets" means that this was hidden in the OT Scriptures all along.

But, it doesn't say that.

It says that it is now revealed "by the prophetic scriptures" . Prophetic is an adjective....not a noun!

Paul is the one doing the [prophetic] writing of Scripture now.

The mystery relates to the Church/Church Age (vs Israel) and Jew/Gentile being one in Christ. The promised Messiah and salvation through Him by grace is not the mystery. Jesus opened up OT Scriptures because they testified about Him, the basis of the NT gospel. Shadows/types pointed to the reality in Christ (Hebrews uses OT passages to show the basis of NT gospel).

Mystery should not be a MAD buzzword.

 

[godrulz]

But I do agree...Jesus did fulfill the Law....but not the future prophesies.....that will occur after the rapture when God again deals with Israel as a nation chosen.

The Mosaic rituals/observances/ceremonies will again be done in the Millenium. But then the Kingdom will be in place.

Why are they observed in the mill. in light of His finished work (I agree that some things will be observed, but not identically to OT times).

A MAD Calvinist, a strange bird you are. Two birds with one stone ought to do it.

 

[graceandpeace]

I don't get it.

Are you saying you agree John the Baptist prophesied over Jesus and called him the Lamb of God to take away the sins of the world? or are you trying to put that on me for something I said?

It is hard to know with the chuckle going on if you are being serious and rejoicing in agreement over Gods word or sarcastically implying something else.

I don't know you that well. but care not to jump to conclusions.

keep shinin

jerm

I was totally agreeing with your post..the chuckle was for those whom could somehow deny such a simple and basic word of prophecy????

I just don't know how anyone could deny it; just trying to lighten things up around here.

 

[godrulz]

Jerm:
There are no prophets today. The Scriptures are complete. I cor 13:10. The were completed with Paul. What kind of future events do these so-called -prophets predict? Nothing to do with Biblical or God etc...."certain
things about people"? Why would a prophet be wasting time predicting that Mary will lose her job next week? Ben owned a red car in 1973??


Yes, the stipulations are that what ever they said must be true and/or come true....I said that about Paul because the things that I mentioned are still future events. That's why they haven't happened yet....it's not that they did not happen and he was wrong.

Exegetically/grammatically, if there are no prophets, then there are no teachers/pastors/evangelists. Paul talked about NT prophets that were different than OT ones. Eph. 4:11-13

 

[john w]

Great example; of a prophetic spoken word!

:chuckle:

Did he "foretell the future?

Explain what a "prophet" is, from the book. Connect the dots.

 

[john w]

I was totally agreeing with your post..the chuckle was for those whom could somehow deny such a simple and basic word of prophecy????

I just don't know how anyone could deny it; just trying to lighten things up around here.

Again, 'splain the definition of "prophet," from the book. Put away your SOF. Can you? Hint: "Law of first mention."

Prophets today? Open the back of the book, right after Rev. 22:21, and startt penning "some more bible."

 

[godrulz]

Sorry, folks, for posting on the thread that muzzles me. Honest mistake trying to catch up to the email notifications.:comeout:

 

[graceandpeace]

Did he "foretell the future?

Explain what a "prophet" is, from the book. Connect the dots.

yes, he foretold the future; didnt you read his words? Had the lamb of God taken away the sins of the world yet; upon Him speaking the words? No, not yet; it was prophetic, and it occurred.

The word prophet simply means to speak under inspiration of God and tell the message that God places in their mouths to speak.