For Sincere Inquisitors ONLY: MAD Explained

[SaulToPaul 2]

Hi, Andy.
If it was a requirement to ask for forgiveness for all past sins, I hope the individual has a good memory. :chuckle:

andyc must have a great memory, or else he must keep his sins under double digits per day. As for me, I know I commit atleast 613 sins on a daily basis. Thank God for his Grace that took the law out of the way for me, thank God that he isn't imputing trespasses to me.

 

[Andy Curry]

Hi, Andy.
If it was a requirement to ask for forgiveness for all past sins, I hope the individual has a good memory. :chuckle:

Rather, one has to recognize that he is a sinner and believe in his heart that Jesus died for his sins, was buried, and rose again (I Cor. 15:1-4). When/if he has truly done that, he will be baptized by the Spirit into Christ, in which he will forever be reckoned as holy, blameless, and righteous, since the life of his Savior - the only one who is TRULY holy, blameless, and righteous - is now his life.

Hope I explained that okay. If not, at least I proved I can cram a lot of commas into one sentence. :chuckle:

Randy

Alright thanks Randy, this is what I thought the MAD view was and I just wanted to double check.

 

[Lighthouse]

Oh I have so many questions but my question for now is, When someone wants to accept what Jesus did for them on the cross must they ask for forgiveness for there past sins or just put there faith in Jesus and believe the gospel?

From what I understand He has already offered His forgiveness. All we have to do is accept it.

That and what chickenman said.

Hi, Andy.
If it was a requirement to ask for forgiveness for all past sins, I hope the individual has a good memory. :chuckle:

:chuckle:

 

[Pam Baldwin]

As we know, this "epistle" is not in our Bible. So anything gathered from it would be 100% speculative as to its contents.

Laodiceans is Ephesians

http://www.biblestudiesonline.info/TGF/ephesians/eph_col_parallel.pdf

 

[Pam Baldwin]

Alright thanks Randy, this is what I thought the MAD view was and I just wanted to double check.

:nono: I think that these are two different items all together:

1)MAD and 2)salvific beliefs.

Randy is MAD and believes what he stated.

I am MAD but believe that we do not "accept" God. Everything that Randy says that one must believe to be saved is actually what one believes WHEN he is regenerated by the Holy Spirit--Christ's faith , God opening our eyes and drawing us to Him.

I am not writing this is get into a debate on the workings of salvation, just to point out that MAD is the view of Mid Acts Dispensationalism--Paul being the Body apostle to the mystery hidden in God from before the foundation of the world--revealed to Paul by the risen Christ....period.

 

[Pam Baldwin]

Clarification.....please

Clarification.....please

I have a question.

Been thinking on STP's explanation of "Mystery of Christ" and The Body's Mystery.:think: How "Christ's" mystery revealed was hidden IN the Scriptures ( His death, resurrection), how Paul preached this gospel until Acts 28? Then he preached Body , when Israel was "set aside". ( The mystery hidden in God from before the foundation of the world).

It does sound correct....but I am having trouble reconciling these Scriptures in light of these :

John 11:50-52 Caiaphas prophesied His death and why.
Luke 24:44-47 Jesus Christ opening their understanding of everything that He had already told them.

So, are you saying that the part of their Messiah's needed death was THERE, but only revealed to them after Jesus' death? They knew that someone had to die from the nation by celebrating the Passover. So, what do you think that they DID understand as they read and studied the O.T. Scriptures?

IOW, was it really "hid", or were they just not understanding...and how do you know that everyone before the Second Generation thought this...is it possible that there were some that did see this?

Again, was it "hidden" or was it not understood because of the hardness of their hearts?

I look forward to your help!!!:dizzy:

 

[voltaire]

Pam. It was written in such a way that its understanding was hidden. Christ revealed the understanding to paul. Pauls understanding has been so thoroughly ingrained in christian culture that anyone reading the old testament now can clearly see the meaning of the d.b.r.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

I have a question.

Been thinking on STP's explanation of "Mystery of Christ" and The Body's Mystery.:thinking: How "Christ's" mystery revealed was hidden IN the Scriptures ( His death, resurrection), how Paul preached this gospel until Acts 28? Then he preached Body , when Israel was "set aside". ( The mystery hidden in God from before the foundation of the world).

:wave2: Howdy Pam,

It was all to the Body of Christ, but

Mystery of Christ- these folks in Acts could look back into the scriptures of the prophets and see the promise of their salvation.
This include the WHY of the cross and who it was for...Jews and Gentiles who were aligned with Israel. Also, the fact that this salvation was by faith alone was "hidden" in the scripture. The scripture forseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith.
Paul lays it all out in Romans giving numerous OT references.


Mystery of the Gospel- these folks, like you & me, cannot see any salvation promised to us in the scriptures of the prophets. It's the WHY of the cross extended even to you & me.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

So, are you saying that the part of their Messiah's needed death was THERE, but only revealed to them after Jesus' death? They knew that someone had to die from the nation by celebrating the Passover. So, what do you think that they DID understand as they read and studied the O.T. Scriptures?

They understood that the Passover was redemption, but they did not know that Jesus Christ would be the Passover Lamb. Also, they had no idea that this sacrifice would be for their sins. The Passover lamb was not a sin offering.

1 Passover (death)
2 Unleavened Bread (burial)
3 First Fruits (resurrection)
4 Pentecost

5 Trumpets
6 Day of Atonement
7 Tabernacles

You can see the death, burial, and resurrection as shadows in the feast days here, but even though you can look at Isa 53 now and see it, it was still hidden in the scriptures. The only feast day that was directly about sins is #6, and it's still future.

 

[Pam Baldwin]

Pam. It was written in such a way that its understanding was hidden. Christ revealed the understanding to paul. Pauls understanding has been so thoroughly ingrained in christian culture that anyone reading the old testament now can clearly see the meaning of the d.b.r.

Hi voltaire!

I agree that like hindsight, everyone sees the death, burial, resurrection in the O.T. now. I have a problem though, with saying that it was written "in such a way that its understanding was hidden". MAybe it's because I've always believed that God's Word was written to the audience at that time, so they had to understand it. maybe I should ask this question next:

If that meaning was hidden, what DID they think God meant in those passages that speak of the Messiah and His death, burial, and resurrection?

thanks!
Pam :upright:

 

[Pam Baldwin]

:wave2: Howdy Pam,

It was all to the Body of Christ, but

Mystery of Christ- these folks in Acts could look back into the scriptures of the prophets and see the promise of their salvation.
This include the WHY of the cross and who it was for...Jews and Gentiles who were aligned with Israel. Also, the fact that this salvation was by faith alone was "hidden" in the scripture. The scripture forseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith.
Paul lays it all out in Romans giving numerous OT references.

Would you say that the Mystery Gospel that was revealed to Paul (Body Hope) was the only mystery revealed to him...IOW, that the "Mystery of Christ" , even though Paul preached it in Acts, was revealed BEFORE to the disciples after Christ's resurrection?

Thanks!

Pam :upright:
PS You don't look to happy being a prisoner of Jesus Christ.....don't you mean Christ Jesus anyway?...

 

[Pam Baldwin]

They understood that the Passover was redemption, but they did not know that Jesus Christ would be the Passover Lamb. Also, they had no idea that this sacrifice would be for their sins. The Passover lamb was not a sin offering.

1 Passover (death)
2 Unleavened Bread (burial)
3 First Fruits (resurrection)
4 Pentecost

5 Trumpets
6 Day of Atonement
7 Tabernacles

You can see the death, burial, and resurrection as shadows in the feast days here, but even though you can look at Isa 53 now and see it, it was still hidden in the scriptures. The only feast day that was directly about sins is #6, and it's still future.

I really like the way you explain the feasts. It makes sense.
:thumb:

 

[Zeke]

:wave2: Howdy Pam,

It was all to the Body of Christ, but

Mystery of Christ- these folks in Acts could look back into the scriptures of the prophets and see the promise of their salvation.
This include the WHY of the cross and who it was for...Jews and Gentiles who were aligned with Israel. Also, the fact that this salvation was by faith alone was "hidden" in the scripture. The scripture forseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith.
Paul lays it all out in Romans giving numerous OT references.



Mystery of the Gospel- these folks, like you & me, cannot see any salvation promised to us in the scriptures of the prophets. It's the WHY of the cross extended even to you & me.

The mystery of the gospel was found in the scripture! and included all nations; Romans 1:5. Duet 33:43.

So you would not include your self within Pauls statement in Galations about the heathen being justified, Abraham was told he would be a blessing to all the families of the earth don't you think that would include you?

Zeke.

 

[Zeke]

I have a question.

Been thinking on STP's explanation of "Mystery of Christ" and The Body's Mystery.:think: How "Christ's" mystery revealed was hidden IN the Scriptures ( His death, resurrection), how Paul preached this gospel until Acts 28? Then he preached Body , when Israel was "set aside". ( The mystery hidden in God from before the foundation of the world).

It does sound correct....but I am having trouble reconciling these Scriptures in light of these :

John 11:50-52 Caiaphas prophesied His death and why.
Luke 24:44-47 Jesus Christ opening their understanding of everything that He had already told them.

So, are you saying that the part of their Messiah's needed death was THERE, but only revealed to them after Jesus' death? They knew that someone had to die from the nation by celebrating the Passover. So, what do you think that they DID understand as they read and studied the O.T. Scriptures?

IOW, was it really "hid", or were they just not understanding...and how do you know that everyone before the Second Generation thought this...is it possible that there were some that did see this?

Again, was it "hidden" or was it not understood because of the hardness of their hearts?

I look forward to your help!!!:dizzy:

1Cor 2:7-8, is the reason it was kept hid.


Zeke.

 

[Butterfly]

Revelation and the symbolism; the women who rides the beast, ten horns, the mark of the beast, and all the dozen plus other items in revelation, are in a way "hidden" to us today. Read 10 explanations of it and you will get 11 different answers.

For instance, nobody knows what the mark of the beast will be. People speculate nowadays that it will be some microchip of some sort, but nobody knows for sure. Back in the 1940's, they thought it was the Nazi "Swastika".

The point is that these things are somewhat hidden to us, not until those times arrive, will they be completely revealed to us. We will be gone by then, in heaven with Christ, but those who remain here on earth will then know.

 

[chickenman]

Good point, Butterfly. Never thought of it that way.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Would you say that the Mystery Gospel that was revealed to Paul (Body Hope) was the only mystery revealed to him...IOW, that the "Mystery of Christ" , even though Paul preached it in Acts, was revealed BEFORE to the disciples after Christ's resurrection?

Thanks!

Pam :upright:
PS You don't look to happy being a prisoner of Jesus Christ.....don't you mean Christ Jesus anyway?...

Howdy again, Pam :wave2:

It kinda throws me when you say "the mystery gospel".

The gospel of Christ preached during Acts was a mystery, hidden in the scriptures (sound like a broken record, don't I?). The mystery of the gospel (of Christ) revealed after Acts was hidden in God. It is called the gospel of the grace of God.

So, quick summary of how I see it:

Mystery of Christ-Gospel of Christ-Christ died for the sins of Israel and Gentiles aligned with Israel-hidden in the scriptures of prophets.

Mystery of Gospel-Gospel of Grace of God-Christ died even for Gentiles who were alien from Israel-hidden in God-not found in scriptures of the prophets.

So, it's true that Peter and his boys did preach the death, burial, and resurrection BEFORE Paul. But, they did not preach it according to the revelation of the mystery (of Christ). They preached the gospel of God. Its contents are found in Romans 1:1-4 (KJV). It's foundational truth for both the "Kingdom Church" and "Body Church".

 

[voltaire]

Pam. I dont know all the phrophecies in the OT concerning the d.b.r but im sure they were puzzled by Isaiah 53. They did not think it was their messiah. When they read by his stripes we were healed, they figured there was going to be a man that would be wrongly punished for the sins of the nation. They must have seen it as a miscarriage of justice that God allowed. It could not have been the messiah since other passages describe him as a conquering ruler.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

I really like the way you explain the feasts. It makes sense.
:thumb:

Thank you! I'm convinced that to really understand Genesis-early Acts and Hebrews-Revelation, you have to understand those feast days and when they are fulfilled.

 

[Pam Baldwin]

Howdy again, Pam :wave2:

It kinda throws me when you say "the mystery gospel".

Yeah...maybe I should say "the mystery-revealed gospel".

The gospel of Christ preached during Acts was a mystery, hidden in the scriptures (sound like a broken record, don't I?). The mystery of the gospel (of Christ) revealed after Acts was hidden in God. It is called the gospel of the grace of God.

So, quick summary of how I see it:

Mystery of Christ-Gospel of Christ-Christ died for the sins of Israel and Gentiles aligned with Israel-hidden in the scriptures of prophets.

Mystery of Gospel-Gospel of Grace of God-Christ died even for Gentiles who were alien from Israel-hidden in God-not found in scriptures of the prophets.

So, it's true that Peter and his boys did preach the death, burial, and resurrection BEFORE Paul. But, they did not preach it according to the revelation of the mystery (of Christ). They preached the gospel of God. Its contents are found in Romans 1:1-4 (KJV). It's foundational truth for both the "Kingdom Church" and "Body Church".

Thanks once again, oh mighty-broken-record :bow:

What you say makes a lot of sense....but I admit it's slow grasping since it is virtually a new way for me to view it all.