Lon
Well-known member
I think I'm going to let Musterion pick this up, specifically because I told him his post wasn't enough...
opcorn:(Will be about who "You gentiles" are...)
ECT For MADs: if Scofield was right...
- Thread starter musterion
- Start date
opcorn:(Will be about who "You gentiles" are...)
It is clear from Romans 1 thru 5 that the Romans Paul was writing to, were members of the Body Christ, and therefore eternally saved from wrath through His life.
It is also clear in that same section that Paul also has the lost in mind.
Romans 1:18-3:30 is one heck of a seminar on the outlook and status of the lost.
Obviously written towards establishing the Romans in an understanding of the soul of such.
Likewise is the case as to both the Believing Remnant of Israel and those of their nation who had turned out never having believed to begin with.
When their offer was cut off, they were cut off from, and with it.
Having sealed the Believing remnant, God concluded the rest in unbelief, cut them off from that offer, and turned to the Gentiles, as He had planned, Acts 26:16.
Paul is now using that to warn of the status of the offer of salvation now among the Gentiles.
How that said offer will end one day, and those who had not believed it, will be cut off.
Thus, where Rom. 11:25 cuts off, things begin to move towards 2 Thess. 2:11, 12's "strong delusion."
Which is where things were headed, in Rom. 1:18-3:20, to begin with, before Paul was saved while in the UNcircumcision of his heart, 1 Tim. 1:13, and sent out to both Jew and Gentile without distinction, see Acts 7, and Acts 26:8-20.
This side of Israel's fall "there is no difference" between lost Jew and Gentile, by the way - both were now being offered a Gentile salvation, Rom. 3:20-3:3O.
musterion
Well-known member
It isn't restricted only to MADs.
Interplanner
Well-known member
musterion
Well-known member
Stay even farther way from Calvin, Pink, Sproul, Washer, MacArthur, Packer...
musterion
Well-known member
Whatever you knew, or think you knew, the Bible fact stands that no person who has become a member of His Body by grace through faith through the Gospel of grace can be parted from Him.
Be bold. Show us the unbelief we already see in you. Tell us that 1 Cor 1:8 and Phil 1:6 are lies. I dare you to be honest for once about what you really think.
Interplanner
Well-known member
lol, be bold.
The people he is talking to in those passages believe and want His grace. The people I'm talking about did once and then decided not. Some are very complicated in which they had quite a 'testimony' as a wayward youth, and then a midlife crisis in which they preferred being wild to being Christian. So they quit to have fun. They looked again like Lot's wife, etc.
I'm always daring, otherwise I wouldn't be here trying to dismantle 2P2P.
I'm always honest and have found 2P2P to be chronically dishonest.
Some passages about people who eventually reject the Gospel: 2 Tim 2:12, 13. 4:4.
Interplanner
Well-known member
2 tim 2:12,13, is spot-on. You are unintelligible.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Here's the situation we are at Must:
1, you believe 2P2P
2, I do not
3, you call me an unbeliever; meaning, an unbeliever in 2P2P (not in the Gospel).
4, I am a believer of the Gospel, not of 2P2P.
1, you believe 2P2P
2, I do not
3, you call me an unbeliever; meaning, an unbeliever in 2P2P (not in the Gospel).
4, I am a believer of the Gospel, not of 2P2P.
musterion
Well-known member
Paul is warning about those who have a false veneer of holiness but who deny the Gospel of the grace of God.
That's you.
"They believe; that's what grafts them in. Many Jews did not, so they were 'out.' It is not determined by ancestry anymore--if it was even then."
The Old Covenant was based upon that which is physical - the physical bloodline, physical circumcision of the men, physical sacrifice of animals for remission of sin, etc - which is also literal. And literal is similar to what Paul says in II Corinthians 3: 6, "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."
Paul uses the Greek word γραμματος. translated as letter, also in Romans 2: 27 and in Romans 2: 29.
"And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost tgransgress the law?" Romans 2: 27
"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2: 29
γραμματος, or grámmatos, is from γράμμα, or grámma, which is Strong's number 1121, meaning. "from 1125, to write, figuratively, to describe, write, a writing,i.e, a letter, note epistle, book -bill, learning, letter, scripture, writing, written."
Paul's use of grámmatos in Romans 2: 27, Romans 2: 29 and in II Corinthians 3: 6 is subtle, almost in a metaphoric way. By "letter" Paul is referring to that which does not transform the reader from the spiritual state of the natural man who does not receive the Holy Spirit to a regenerate spiritual state. The "letter" is understood by the unregenerate person, who does not grasp spiritual things very well.
Look at Hebrews 5: 12-14: "For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
Those who are not weaned from "milk" understand the "letter" but not the "meat," which is harder to understand and not understood without the Holy Spirit.
And in this statement one of the founders of the theology called dispensationalism, Christian Zionism, separation theology, postponement theology dual covenant theology or the rapture cult, Lewis S. Chafer, admits that dispensationalism has "...changed the Bible from being a mass of more or less conflicting
writings into a classified and easily assimilated revelation of both
the earthly and heavenly purposes of God, which reach on into eternity
to come.." Lewis. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,’ Bibliotheca Sacra, 93 (October 1936), 410, 416, 446-447
Chafer, a founder of Christian Zionism, following John Darby and C.I. Scofield, claimed the Bible is a mass or more or less conflicting writings and that dispensationalism or Christian Zionism makes the Bible more easily classified and assimilated, or more easily understood. Christian Zionism makes scripture more easily understood by those who are in the spiritual condition of the natural man of I Corinthians 2: 14 - that which is of the "letter" and not of the "meat."
The Old Covenant was based upon that which is physical - the physical bloodline, physical circumcision of the men, physical sacrifice of animals for remission of sin, etc - which is also literal. And literal is similar to what Paul says in II Corinthians 3: 6, "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."
Paul uses the Greek word γραμματος. translated as letter, also in Romans 2: 27 and in Romans 2: 29.
"And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost tgransgress the law?" Romans 2: 27
"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2: 29
γραμματος, or grámmatos, is from γράμμα, or grámma, which is Strong's number 1121, meaning. "from 1125, to write, figuratively, to describe, write, a writing,i.e, a letter, note epistle, book -bill, learning, letter, scripture, writing, written."
Paul's use of grámmatos in Romans 2: 27, Romans 2: 29 and in II Corinthians 3: 6 is subtle, almost in a metaphoric way. By "letter" Paul is referring to that which does not transform the reader from the spiritual state of the natural man who does not receive the Holy Spirit to a regenerate spiritual state. The "letter" is understood by the unregenerate person, who does not grasp spiritual things very well.
Look at Hebrews 5: 12-14: "For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
Those who are not weaned from "milk" understand the "letter" but not the "meat," which is harder to understand and not understood without the Holy Spirit.
And in this statement one of the founders of the theology called dispensationalism, Christian Zionism, separation theology, postponement theology dual covenant theology or the rapture cult, Lewis S. Chafer, admits that dispensationalism has "...changed the Bible from being a mass of more or less conflicting
writings into a classified and easily assimilated revelation of both
the earthly and heavenly purposes of God, which reach on into eternity
to come.." Lewis. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,’ Bibliotheca Sacra, 93 (October 1936), 410, 416, 446-447
Chafer, a founder of Christian Zionism, following John Darby and C.I. Scofield, claimed the Bible is a mass or more or less conflicting writings and that dispensationalism or Christian Zionism makes the Bible more easily classified and assimilated, or more easily understood. Christian Zionism makes scripture more easily understood by those who are in the spiritual condition of the natural man of I Corinthians 2: 14 - that which is of the "letter" and not of the "meat."
Who are those?
7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter
dodge
New member
I will stay with what Paul taught, and as you know Paul mentioned cephas also. Seems many are relishing in their carnality.
1Co 1:12
Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 3:4
For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
1Co 3:21
Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;