andyc
New member
He never said to do that.
ECT For Baptists and non-denom evangelicals
- Thread starter musterion
- Start date
He never said to do that.
Yes he did. I gave you chapter and verse, on TOL, that says that he did.
"Traditional" Christianity has it backward, since they refuse to rightly divide this word of truth. After being justified by being baptized into Christ, and being new creatures in Christ, with eternal life, having been raised, ascended, and seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus(up), "religion" wants to "bury" you(down) you under the element of water , which, as part of the earth, is under a curse, by being dunked until the tadpoles know your social security number.
Water baptism, throughout the OT/NT, was never viewed as "Death/Burial/ & Resurrection."
Baptism - changing the condition, identity, of something because of an action that was performed; placing or putting something into another substance and performing an action so that it will change the state of the item from its previous condition-it's condition, status, or identity is changed!
Baptism- the idea of being placed into something (the Lord Jesus Christ's death in this dispensation), and an action is performed, so that when we come out we are changed from our previous condition. It is all about our identification; the LORD God takes what we are in Adam and places us into the Lord Jesus Christ, and God's action (crucifying the old man) changes our condition- now we are" in Christ." We are no longer what we were in Adam, because God has done something to us and in us. Our previous condition has been changed because of what God has done:
" Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead." Colossians 2:12 KJV
Buried with Him-not like Him.
" Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: {6} Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Romans 6:3-6
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Again:Baptism- 'to change the nature, identity, condition, status, and to IDENTIFY something with its purpose.. For example, Homer, in his book "The Odyssey", desribes the tempering of a sword. When the hot metal was plunged into water, the sword was "baptized" , and thus the change in the condition of the sword was from soft to hard metal. As another example, when a piece of cloth was placed into a dye vat for coloring, there was a change in the condition of the piece of cloth upon emergence from the vat-it had a new color.
Water baptism, throughout the OT/NT, was never viewed as "Death/Burial/ & Resurrection."
Baptism - changing the condition, identity, of something because of an action that was performed; placing or putting something into another substance and performing an action so that it will change the state of the item from its previous condition-it's condition, status, or identity is changed!
Baptism- the idea of being placed into something (the Lord Jesus Christ's death in this dispensation), and an action is performed, so that when we come out we are changed from our previous condition. It is all about our identification; the LORD God takes what we are in Adam and places us into the Lord Jesus Christ, and God's action (crucifying the old man) changes our condition- now we are" in Christ." We are no longer what we were in Adam, because God has done something to us and in us. Our previous condition has been changed because of what God has done:
" Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead." Colossians 2:12 KJV
Buried with Him-not like Him.
" Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: {6} Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Romans 6:3-6
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________
Again:Baptism- 'to change the nature, identity, condition, status, and to IDENTIFY something with its purpose.. For example, Homer, in his book "The Odyssey", desribes the tempering of a sword. When the hot metal was plunged into water, the sword was "baptized" , and thus the change in the condition of the sword was from soft to hard metal. As another example, when a piece of cloth was placed into a dye vat for coloring, there was a change in the condition of the piece of cloth upon emergence from the vat-it had a new color.
"Should regenerated believers be baptized to witness to God's grace and bring glory to His name? Yes."-Nag
No scripture says this. Only church SOF's assert this, not the book.
"witness to the world ....testimony...symbol " and all that jazz..
To those who agree that water baptism does not save, but it should be practiced as a " testimony", a "witness to the world" of our salvation, I ask:
Where was the lost "world"(or anyone, for that matter) in the 3 most notable baptisms in the book of Acts? Who was present in Acts 8 when the Ethiopian eunuch was baptized, except Philip? Just the chariot driver? Who was present when Saul(Paul) was baptized in Acts 9? Only Anias? Who was present when the Philippian jailor was baptized in Acts 16? Only his family? Nowhere in scripture will you find any verse that tells of water baptism as a testimony to "the world", lost or saved.
From a sensical point of view, would not the water ritual be a rather poor method to witness to the lost of your salvation? Just how is a sopping wet person a testimony to 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, Eph. 2:8-9 KJV............? A witness has a testimony, i.e., he/she speaks or writes of what has taken place. And just how does wet clothes, wet hair.....do that? Rhetorical Q.
And how is a ceremony, that is, in most cases, performed within the walls of a church building, with mostly believers present, not the lost, effective as a testimony to the lost, i.e., most of the audience is saved! If those that contend that it should be done as a testimony to the lost, then, if they were intellectually honest, then they would go down to the nearest stream/lake/pond and start "dunking away" until the tadpoles knew their social security number.
The basic idea behind the concept of baptism is identification=placing or putting something into another substance, performing an action, with the resulting purpose of a change in the state of the item from its previous condition=change in identity, change in condition, change in status.
Symbol? No one was buried in water. The Lord Jesus Christ was not buried in a liquid grave, but in rocks, and buried when dead. In contrast, the "dry baptismal" candidate is buried as soon as he has received life! Shazam, Gomer...
andyc
New member
I wonder why Paul didn't understand this when he bapized the Philippian jailer?
You need to understand the difference between what happens internally, and public confession.
@ john of the w....from this I gather that you do believe in baptism with water only the practise of it is corrupted.
Many folks can't precisely date their salvation, I can and I expect you can, but if they are baptised in water they can remember that. I even I say it is a testimony before God and angels...we can tell the devil to back off with the certainty that we are God's property. Peter says it is an appeal to God for a clean conscience.
I have died, I was buried, I now walk in newness of life. But first we get saved.
Many folks can't precisely date their salvation, I can and I expect you can, but if they are baptised in water they can remember that. I even I say it is a testimony before God and angels...we can tell the devil to back off with the certainty that we are God's property. Peter says it is an appeal to God for a clean conscience.
I have died, I was buried, I now walk in newness of life. But first we get saved.
musterion
Well-known member
No H20 there.
Or there.
Noah's family was saved through (not by) the water. Likewise, the baptism Peter refers to saves them NOT via physical washing (Jewish water rituals) but via a clean conscience through the resurrection of Christ, which as Paul says proves the believer is justified (Rom 4:25); hence the clean conscience before God (Rom 8:1). H20 has nothing to do with this operation.
What is it to impose something upon yourself that He never commanded you to do?
I'll slow it down for you. No scripture asserts that baptism, as displayed in the OT, or NT, was to be a "public confession"-NADA.
And "OT baptism," that practiced in Mt.-John, was right out of the law-required.
andyc
New member
so why did Paul baptize people?
No scripture says "testimony...confession." Only your "the church" SOF says that.
Lord Jesus Christ....buried in rock, after dead.
Believers....raised to newness of life, then "buried" in water........
Got it....log on, lose your mind to your SOF.
Discussed often on TOL.....nice bait'nswitch.
Why were the sons of Aaron made to "go under?"
Where was the water on the cross? Where was the water at the Red Sea, when the Israelites were baptized unto Moses?
andyc
New member
Lets return to water baptism under the new covenant. Why did Paul water baptize? Musterion wants to get to the bottom of this?
No, I'm the director here. And neither you, if you are saved, or I, or any member of the boc, is under the NC. Why were people baptized under the OC, in Matthew-John? Why don't you sell all you have?
andyc
New member
Ok so you don't know why Paul baptized. We understand.
"Is someone who has believed the Gospel of the grace of God sinning if they don't want water baptism? "-musterion
"..They are rebelling against Jesus' instruction."-you
This "Jesus" you cite instructed, taught the law, and baptism was straight from the OT law.
He also instructed you, specificallty, of course, to sell all you have.
"O tay, Buckwheat," so you don't have a clue as to from whence baptism came, and thus are unqualified to weigh in, and discuss the subject.
Thanks for checkin' in.
Yes testimony, confession
You: Yes, my testimony, confession, because Professor Demas/Judas, told me so, and pointed out, that it says so, on page 12, of my SOF, so I'll be just fine, Dag Nabbit, Luke.
Thank you for your cooperation.
musterion
Well-known member
Oooooh, you nailed Candy Andy on that one. What will he do...reply forthrightly? Ignore? Tapdance? What WILL he do?!?