For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

[beloved57]

1 Cor 15:22

22 [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]For as in Adam all die, even [/FONT]so in Christ shall all be made alive.

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Though there will be a general resurrection of the just and unjust Acts 24:15, this portion of scripture is of particular reference to the Church /Body of Christ or the just. Its referencing the glorious resurrection of men and women in Christ, for which Hes their firstfruits 1 Cor 15:20,23. So these are connected to Christ, Hes their Head and they're members of His Body, 1 Cor 12:12[/FONT]

12 [FONT=&quot]For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.


This is important to understand because there's some false teachers who would reference 1 Cor 15:22 to mean all mankind, even men and women that are not in Christ, which is a false teaching, yet they will hijack this scripture to be a prooftext, teaching that all mankind is in this reference, when its only specifying mankind in Christ, which isnt inclusive of the children of the devil or of the wicked one. 1 Jn 3:10; Matt 13:38[/FONT]

 

[beloved57]

The same principle is in Rom 5 wherein the false teachers want to include all mankind in the blessings which pertain only to Christs Church. For instance those scriptures Rom 5:12-21. But the only truht Paul is conveying therein is simply :

All who were in Adam when he sinned as their natural head died to God/ or were made sinners, and its simply contrasted all who were in Christ when He obeyed shall be made alive with Christ.

For instance in Rom 5:18

18 [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one[Christ][/FONT] the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]The free gift here came upon all men in Christ unto justification of life, for theirs no Justification nor life apart from in Christ.[/FONT]

 

[FineLinen]

The same principle is in Rom 5 wherein the false teachers want to include all mankind in the blessings which pertain only to Christs Church. For instance those scriptures Rom 5:12-21. But the only truht Paul is conveying therein is simply :

All who were in Adam when he sinned as their natural head died to God/ or were made sinners, and its simply contrasted all who were in Christ when He obeyed shall be made alive with Christ.

For instance in Rom 5:18

18 [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one[Christ][/FONT] the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]The free gift here came upon all men in Christ unto justification of life, for theirs no Justification nor life apart from in Christ.[/FONT]

From eternity past God intended that the most vivid and profound demonstration of his glory would come in the form of His work of salvation on the cross of Christ.

- God then made man to punish him.

- He made him perfect and thus unlikely to ever need punishing, or, for that matter, need a Savior.

- By a happy coincidence, and against all the odds, this perfect man sinned, thus allowing God to fulfill His purposes for both the man and Christ.

- When he sinned, God, who is suddenly confronted with the prospect of being able to fulfill all of His original plans, becomes furious.

What you have just read is not a joke. I wish that it were. Rather, I have simply enumerated the points that comprise the Calvinist theological system, or, as I call it: the Happy Coincidence model of sin and salvation.

'It reflects what can only be described as an Alice-in-Wonderland reality, in which the only sense is nonsense, and logic is the enemy. This book will seek to explore some of its many logical inconsistencies and, in the process, propose a perfectly viable--and biblical--alternative.

https://wipfandstock.com/the-calvinist-universalist.html

 

[FineLinen]

This will come as an awful shock to you, beloved57>>>

The mass "made sinners" in Adam1 are the same mass (the polus) "made righteous" in the Last Adam: every last one!

The polus made sinners = the polus made righteous

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The polus made sinners = the polus made righteous

Polus means "many" and not "all."

 

[FineLinen]

Polus means "many" and not "all."

Dear Jerry: I know the meaning of polus, I also know the equation is exactly the same on either side!

Polus= polus= polus= polus

The polus "made sinners" = the polus "made righteous"

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Dear Jerry: I know the meaning of polus, I also know the equation is exactly the same on either side!

If you do then you know that many are made righteous but not all.

 

[FineLinen]

If you do then you know that many are made righteous but not all.

Dear Jerry: Perhaps you should send an update to St. Paul. The mass (the polus) "made sinners" are not the polus "made righteous".

Dear St. Paul: please be advised Jerry posts many will be made righteous, "but not all"

Dear Jerry: You really need to think of another avenue for your manifold talents LOL.

 

[beloved57]

From eternity past God intended that the most vivid and profound demonstration of his glory would come in the form of His work of salvation on the cross of Christ.

- God then made man to punish him.

- He made him perfect and thus unlikely to ever need punishing, or, for that matter, need a Savior.

- By a happy coincidence, and against all the odds, this perfect man sinned, thus allowing God to fulfill His purposes for both the man and Christ.

- When he sinned, God, who is suddenly confronted with the prospect of being able to fulfill all of His original plans, becomes furious.

What you have just read is not a joke. I wish that it were. Rather, I have simply enumerated the points that comprise the Calvinist theological system, or, as I call it: the Happy Coincidence model of sin and salvation.

'It reflects what can only be described as an Alice-in-Wonderland reality, in which the only sense is nonsense, and logic is the enemy. This book will seek to explore some of its many logical inconsistencies and, in the process, propose a perfectly viable--and biblical--alternative.

https://wipfandstock.com/the-calvinist-universalist.html

Evasion and rabbit trail nonsense !

 

[FineLinen]

Evasion and rabbit trail nonsense !

Dear beloved57: Profound! I bet your prodigy Nanja will give you rave reviews.

How different is that appearance of "the dead small and great" before the great white throne (Rev. 20:11) at the close of the Millennium. Summoned to a resurrection of terrible judgment, those that are not found written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire which is the second death. Behold them now at the consummation, with death the last enemy abolished because its work is done, MADE ALIVE in their "own order," to own the Lordship of that One through the merits of whose cross they have been brought in a glad subjection to His feet.

Thus the drama of creation begins with a scene in which the first Adam takes a step that leads all his posterity into ruin and death. It closes with a vision in which the last Adam presents to the Father, as a fruit of His Cross and Throne, a universe of beings delivered from sin and death, and worshiping in adoring wonder at His feet. This is the "purpose of the ages." (Eph. 3:11). This is the goal of creation. Then will Christ see of the travail of His soul and be SATISFIED.

http://www.theheraldofgodsgrace.org/Saxby/GodInCreationRedemptionJudgmentAndConsummation.htm

Adam1= the polus "made sinners"

Last Adam= the polus "made righteous."

 

[Derf]

1 Cor 15:22

22 [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]For as in Adam all die, even [/FONT]so in Christ shall all be made alive.

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Though there will be a general resurrection of the just and unjust Acts 24:15, this portion of scripture is of particular reference to the Church /Body of Christ or the just. Its referencing the glorious resurrection of men and women in Christ, for which Hes their firstfruits 1 Cor 15:20,23. So these are connected to Christ, Hes their Head and they're members of His Body, 1 Cor 12:12[/FONT]

12 [FONT="]For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.


This is important to understand because there's some false teachers who would reference 1 Cor 15:22 to mean all mankind, even men and women that are not in Christ, which is a false teaching, yet they will hijack this scripture to be a prooftext, teaching that all mankind is in this reference, when its only specifying mankind in Christ, which isnt inclusive of the children of the devil or of the wicked one. 1 Jn 3:10; Matt 13:38[/FONT]

I don't think it is too much of a stretch to say that the "all" in each case envelops every person in each case. The "all in Adam" is all of humanity, as all came from him. The "all in Christ" is all that are in him, all christianity (assuming the name is only applied where it really fits). Both "alls" are universal--applying to everybody that is included in Adam's or Jesus' group. But the second is also exclusive, NOT applying to some people (those that are NOT "in Christ").

But since the descendancy or hierarchy (which seems to fit better) of Christ to His "offspring", or body, is not the same as that of Adam to his offspring, the same rules don't necessarily apply. Weren't there, in fact, many who did NOT believe in Christ at the time of His death (of those who were alive then) who later believed? And of course, all of us alive today were not "in Christ" at one time, then were born "out of Christ" and later were re-introduced to Christ.

In fact, the passage seems to be talking only about existing persons. So unless you existed prior to being born (and born in sin, if you believe in total depravity), then the "all" can't apply to you, except in a future sense (at the time of Christ's death), and if in a "future sense", then you WEREN'T "in Christ" at the time of His death. You were only there as a representation.

Now, if you were there only as a representation, then it makes plenty of sense that Christ's death could be applied to your account, even before you were there to benefit from it, but there's still the issue of what event caused that representation to be applicable to you. Was it merely 1) the event of the Christ's death? Or was it 2) the event of you believing in Christ? Or was it 3) the event of a decision made before the foundation of the world.

If #1, then it must apply to all men, period, at least all men that were around at the time of Christ or have existed afterward.
If #2, then it must apply only to those who believe in Christ.
If #3, then it only applies to those who are chosen before the foundation of the world. But that then results in the question of whether you were saved NOT by the death of Christ, but by the decision made before the foundation of the world--and if you are saved by something else other than the death of Christ, aren't you relying on a different "good news"--a different gospel?

Finally, if we assume that the "in Christ" means somehow we are saved before we are born, then we are saved before we are "lost", and it denigrates the power of Christ to actually save us permanently. Or it suggests that the two are not opposite states, and thus one can be both "saved" and "unsaved" at the same time. I hope that sounds as ridiculous to you as it does to me.

So how is it that we can be "chosen from the foundation of the world" and also not be saved at some point after the foundation of the world? Perhaps it is that we were chosen as part of the group that would be "in Christ" and not the group that was "in Christ" at the foundation of the world. If that is the case, then at any point in time, someone might be "added" to the "in Christ" group, and we wouldn't have to worry about how someone could be both "saved" and "unsaved" at the same time.

 

[Nanja]

The same principle is in Rom 5 wherein the false teachers want to include all mankind in the blessings which pertain only to Christs Church. For instance those scriptures Rom 5:12-21. But the only truht Paul is conveying therein is simply :

All who were in Adam when he sinned as their natural head died to God/ or were made sinners, and its simply contrasted all who were in Christ when He obeyed shall be made alive with Christ.

For instance in Rom 5:18

18 [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one[Christ][/FONT] the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]The free gift here came upon all men in Christ unto justification of life, for theirs no Justification nor life apart from in Christ.[/FONT]

Amen to #1 and #2 !

The All that originally died in Adam, are the same All that In Christ shall be made Alive 1 Cor. 15:22; Pet. 1:3.
They are restricted exclusively to God's Elect, Christ's Church 1 Cor. 1:2 Chosen In Union with Him Eph. 1:3-4, their Covenant Head and Surety Heb. 7:22 from Everlasting: The Sheep He that He gave His Life for John 10:11, 15; Is. 53:6.

Therefore, within the doctrine of Salvation we know that the reprobates Titus 1:16, the condemned world 1 Cor. 11:32, did not die in Adam for they were not made in the image and likeness of God as Adam and his original posterity the Elect of God were; the all men which Justification of Life came unto Rom. 5:18 !

 

[ttruscott]

Why is "For as in Adam all die..." so often interpreted to mean: For as in Adam all sin???

We are not put into his sin but into his death so Christ need die but once for all elect sinners, not once for each sinner.

 

[beloved57]

I don't think it is too much of a stretch to say that the "all" in each case envelops every person in each case. The "all in Adam" is all of humanity, as all came from him. The "all in Christ" is all that are in him, all christianity (assuming the name is only applied where it really fits). Both "alls" are universal--applying to everybody that is included in Adam's or Jesus' group. But the second is also exclusive, NOT applying to some people (those that are NOT "in Christ").

But since the descendancy or hierarchy (which seems to fit better) of Christ to His "offspring", or body, is not the same as that of Adam to his offspring, the same rules don't necessarily apply. Weren't there, in fact, many who did NOT believe in Christ at the time of His death (of those who were alive then) who later believed? And of course, all of us alive today were not "in Christ" at one time, then were born "out of Christ" and later were re-introduced to Christ.

In fact, the passage seems to be talking only about existing persons. So unless you existed prior to being born (and born in sin, if you believe in total depravity), then the "all" can't apply to you, except in a future sense (at the time of Christ's death), and if in a "future sense", then you WEREN'T "in Christ" at the time of His death. You were only there as a representation.

Now, if you were there only as a representation, then it makes plenty of sense that Christ's death could be applied to your account, even before you were there to benefit from it, but there's still the issue of what event caused that representation to be applicable to you. Was it merely 1) the event of the Christ's death? Or was it 2) the event of you believing in Christ? Or was it 3) the event of a decision made before the foundation of the world.

If #1, then it must apply to all men, period, at least all men that were around at the time of Christ or have existed afterward.
If #2, then it must apply only to those who believe in Christ.
If #3, then it only applies to those who are chosen before the foundation of the world. But that then results in the question of whether you were saved NOT by the death of Christ, but by the decision made before the foundation of the world--and if you are saved by something else other than the death of Christ, aren't you relying on a different "good news"--a different gospel?

Finally, if we assume that the "in Christ" means somehow we are saved before we are born, then we are saved before we are "lost", and it denigrates the power of Christ to actually save us permanently. Or it suggests that the two are not opposite states, and thus one can be both "saved" and "unsaved" at the same time. I hope that sounds as ridiculous to you as it does to me.

So how is it that we can be "chosen from the foundation of the world" and also not be saved at some point after the foundation of the world? Perhaps it is that we were chosen as part of the group that would be "in Christ" and not the group that was "in Christ" at the foundation of the world. If that is the case, then at any point in time, someone might be "added" to the "in Christ" group, and we wouldn't have to worry about how someone could be both "saved" and "unsaved" at the same time.

If you believe all humanity is in Christ thats your delusion and its not supported by scripture.

 

[beloved57]

Amen to #1 and #2 !

The All that originally died in Adam, are the same All that In Christ shall be made Alive 1 Cor. 15:22; Pet. 1:3.
They are restricted exclusively to God's Elect, Christ's Church 1 Cor. 1:2 Chosen In Union with Him Eph. 1:3-4, their Covenant Head and Surety Heb. 7:22 from Everlasting: The Sheep He that He gave His Life for John 10:11, 15; Is. 53:6.

Therefore, within the doctrine of Salvation we know that the reprobates Titus 1:16, the condemned world 1 Cor. 11:32, did not die in Adam for they were not made in the image and likeness of God as Adam and his original posterity the Elect of God were; the all men which Justification of Life came unto Rom. 5:18 !

Amen Sister ! Both Adam and Christ represented the Elect in Christ and not the non elect which are the children of the wicked one.

 

[FineLinen]

Amen Sister ! Both Adam and Christ represented the Elect in Christ and not the non elect which are the children of the wicked one.

The large ego that pervades some of those "elect", is the foundation for radical adjustment. God is the Saviour of all mankind, with that wee word "especially/malista". He is not the Saviour of ONLY/monon those who believe/trust IN Him; He is the Saviour of all mankind. Preach this & teach this.

 

[beloved57]

The large ego that pervades some of those "elect", is the foundation for radical adjustment. God is the Saviour of all mankind, with that wee word "especially/malista". He is not the Saviour of ONLY/monon those who believe/trust IN Him; He is the Saviour of all mankind. Preach this & teach this.

False statements nowhere in scripture. God is the Saviour of those in Christ, all mankind isn't in Christ. In Christ 1 Cor 15:22

[FONT=&quot]For as in Adam all die, even so [/FONT]in Christ shall all be made alive.

 

[beloved57]

finelinen

He is not the Saviour of ONLY/monon those who believe/trust IN Him; He is the Saviour of all mankind.

False statement, nowhere does it state that Christ or God is the Saviour of unbelievers. In fact unbelief is an evidence of one who is condemned already Jn 3:18

18 [FONT=&quot]He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

No condemnation to them in Christ Rom 8:1

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[/FONT]

 

[Nanja]

Amen Sister ! Both Adam and Christ represented the Elect in Christ and not the non elect which are the children of the wicked one.

Exactly Brother, and proves that none had any freewill choice in the matter.

The non elect were chosen in, not Adam, not Christ, but in their father the devil as his seed.

 

[beloved57]

Exactly Brother, and proves that none had any freewill choice in the matter.

The non elect were chosen in, not Adam, not Christ, but in their father the devil as his seed.

Amen. Then they were added to Adams natural headship but not federal headship.