Fast Food workers protest and demand more money.

[Granite]

In our state there is a cache of foodstuffs specifically mandated for the needy. There are also multiple food shelves which are free for those in need.
Our large grocery stores make up bags of staple which may be purchased and put into a bin for the food shelf.
I support all of these systems whole heartedly.

That's one thing, but you described gleaning as mandated sharing. I find it incredibly difficult to believe a government-mandated program of sharing where the poor get something for nothing is a program you'd support.

 

[99lamb]

It is absolutely Biblical to say God is against injustice, God is against fraud,
James since he rails against the rich, reminds us in James 5:1-11

"Now listen you rich people weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. Your wealth ha rotted and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty."....
New International Version.

Will those who also rail against the business man, also rail against the Government tax system, will you now rail against the government that prints money devaluing the buying power of the dollar, will you also rail against the landlord, the car manufacturers and the cost of bus fare, subway tokens, college tuition...?

At what point do you realize that opportunity is available to those who want it. The issue is not settled by increasing the minimum wage, that is only a single issue, this is a multi-issue problem.

 

[resurrected]

That's one thing, but you described gleaning as mandated sharing. I find it incredibly difficult to believe a government-mandated program of sharing where the poor get something for nothing is a program you'd support.

that's 'cause you're a retard! :thumb:

 

[whitestone]

here's my favorite part of the,,,"peaceful demonstration",,,,see what happens if the "good ole tax dollar is threatened",,,you go to Jail,,because "THAT AIN'T PEACEFUL!" https://www.google.com/search?q=foo...=np&q=food+workers+demonstrate+arrest&spell=1

 

[PureX]

At what point do you realize that opportunity is available to those who want it.

Let's see … the average cost of a college education is about $23,000 per year.

In its most recent survey of college pricing, the College Board reports that a "moderate" college budget for an in-state public college for the 2013–2014 academic year averaged $22,826. A moderate budget at a private college averaged $44,750. (link)

And anyone without a college education isn't going to find much in the way of opportunity in this economic environment. So how does someone that can only get a servant-type job, paying minimum wage, pay $23,000 a year for four years of college? Even if he works full time, which he isn't going to be able to do if he goes to college full time, he still only makes $15,000 a year. Which means his only option is to borrow a LOT of money, which a lot of people can't or won't do, and for some very good reasons.

And even if this person does borrow all that money, will he get a good job in the end? No. He'll get a beginner's job with the economic "in" crowd. Which means that even though he makes more than minimum wage, he doesn't make that much more, and now he has to pay off a whopping student loan out of what he is making. So that after all that work and time, he isn't really much ahead of where he was. And although he has increased his chances of economic advancement from zero to something better than zero, he still may not be able to take advantage of that increase in opportunity for any number of reasons that he can't control.

So this idea that opportunity is there for everyone is simply bogus. If you're born into wealth, and thereby have your college paid for and a social pedigree and network to help you along after college, you have a very good chance of "getting ahead". But if you don't have any of these things, I think you have very little chance of rising above the working class. And if you're saddled with any extra impediments, as many of us are, you have virtually no chance at all.

I know it eases everyone's conscience to imagine that it's equal opportunity for all in America. But the truth is that it's not equal, nor for all. In fact, it's mostly only for the privileged few, and for the rare few who manage to overcome everything in their way.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Nicodemus was a very rich christian who paid for Christs tomb, i don't recall Christ ever condemning him because of his wealth.

Being wealthy isnt a sin, unless you put that wealth before God, and what is what Christ was addressing with the rich man who would not follow Him.

If anyone doubts God blesses people with wealth, see Solomon.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I don't see this as a liberal vs. conservative issue, and I certainly don't see it as anyone trying to down-trod the poor. This is simply a discussion of the potential positive and negative effects of a minimum wage increase. There's lots of issues involved, including retired people living on fixed incomes who won't be getting any increases in their incomes. Things like this should be considered before doing something that's likely to increase the cost of living. This isn't a simple yes or no proposition, and the amount of the increase should also be carefully considered.

yes, thats something i dont see many talking about either, and how when minimum wage goes up, and everything doubles, many including those who make the new wage, have their overall income drop and those who live on a pension or fixed income, gets a pay cut as do many who have earned their increases, since that increase doesnt increase other peoples pay.

 

[resurrected]

If anyone doubts God blesses people with wealth, see Solomon.

paul wrote that part

:darwinsm:

 

[rexlunae]

:chuckle:

No, you used an anecdote and pretended the challenge away.

Are you sure you were looking at my post? What anecdote?

Only if you're looking for ways to worm out of the facts.

That's a pretty silly way to justify misstating your own case. Lets be honest here, Stripe. Only some businesses will be impacted, and that is one of the reasons that it is absurd to claim that workers won't actually see the benefit of the higher wages.

You are not justified in breaking this challenge down into anecdotes.

Again, what anecdotes? You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

It makes a pretty big difference whether you are changing the wages of the entire workforce, or a subset of it.

And how are you going to guarantee this will happen? Necessity remains necessity. Your ideals in a limited number of imaginary cases do not answer the challenge. Nothing can answer the challenge of mathematical necessity.

I will guarantee it with basic economics, and the historical record of raising the minimum wage in the past.

Then you admit that the whole bureaucratical exercise is one of futility.

No. And if you had read the entire sentence instead of just the first word, you would know why.

Perhaps you can show how more equals less in your world. :chuckle:

If you're going to continue to mis-characterize my argument, I don't see any point in continuing the discussion.

 

[quip]

Is that the best you've got?

The first time I worked at McDonald's was the summer between my junior and senior year of high school. One of my managers was in my class, and he was actually younger than me. As a manager he made more than minimum wage. Do you think he was hired as a manager or do you think he got a job there as a minimum wage employee and worked his way up?

That's quite the inspiring tale!

I bet your just filled to the gills with those good o' American, corn-fed clichés you've been bottle fed over the years:


"If your gonna do a job, do it right."

"Hard work is its own reward."

"Hard work springs success."
...etc.


Try feeding these aww-shucks notions to those - for years - stuck in a sisyphean, underpaid/overworked, unappreciated job.

I'm quite sure they'd appreciate your enthusiasm.

 

[Stripe]

Only some businesses will be impacted.

Nope. The law would affect the economy as a whole.

and that is one of the reasons that it is absurd to claim that workers won't actually see the benefit of the higher wages.

This is only true if you take a general rule and pretend it only applies to select situations.

It makes a pretty big difference whether you are changing the wages of the entire workforce, or a subset of it.

The rule affects the entire workforce.

I don't see any point in continuing the discussion.

Bye. :wave2:

 

[Lighthouse]

Did the three people who were fired for stealing from the store within my first 8 months at a job deserve $15/hr.?

The issue is not settled by increasing the minimum wage, that is only a single issue, this is a multi-issue problem.

:thumb:

That's quite the inspiring tale!

I bet your just filled to the gills with those good o' American, corn-fed clichés you've been bottle fed over the years:


"If your gonna do a job, do it right."

"Hard work is its own reward."

"Hard work springs success."
...etc.


Try feeding these aww-shucks notions to those - for years - stuck in a sisyphean, underpaid/overworked, unappreciated job.

I'm quite sure they'd appreciate your enthusiasm.

Like the job I was stuck in for seven years? You know what I did when I finally wanted out of it? I quit.

 

[99lamb]

PureX
Let's see … the average cost of a college education is about $23,000 per year.



And anyone without a college education isn't going to find much in the way of opportunity in this economic environment. So how does someone that can only get a servant-type job, paying minimum wage, pay $23,000 a year for four years of college? Even if he works full time, which he isn't going to be able to do if he goes to college full time, he still only makes $15,000 a year. Which means his only option is to borrow a LOT of money, which a lot of people can't or won't do, and for some very good reasons.

And even if this person does borrow all that money, will he get a good job in the end? No. He'll get a beginner's job with the economic "in" crowd. Which means that even though he makes more than minimum wage, he doesn't make that much more, and now he has to pay off a whopping student loan out of what he is making. So that after all that work and time, he isn't really much ahead of where he was. And although he has increased his chances of economic advancement from zero to something better than zero, he still may not be able to take advantage of that increase in opportunity for any number of reasons that he can't control.

So this idea that opportunity is there for everyone is simply bogus. If you're born into wealth, and thereby have your college paid for and a social pedigree and network to help you along after college, you have a very good chance of "getting ahead". But if you don't have any of these things, I think you have very little chance of rising above the working class. And if you're saddled with any extra impediments, as many of us are, you have virtually no chance at all.

I know it eases everyone's conscience to imagine that it's equal opportunity for all in America. But the truth is that it's not equal, nor for all. In fact, it's mostly only for the privileged few, and for the rare few who manage to overcome everything in their way.

Well, they could do what I did, join the military, utilize the G.I. bill.
You could also attend a 2yr school for your gen ed., requirements which is usually much less expensive @ 4k a year then transfer to your 4 yr program, you can also take courses in the summer which are usually cheaper.
Like I said opportunity is there for those who will take it.
thank-you

 

[Jefferson]

LOL

 

[bybee]

Well, they could do what I did, join the military, utilize the G.I. bill.
You could also attend a 2yr school for your gen ed., requirements which is usually much less expensive @ 4k a year then transfer to your 4 yr program, you can also take courses in the summer which are usually cheaper.
Like I said opportunity is there for those who will take it.
thank-you

Well done! There are also technical programs through Vo Tec as well as Practical Nursing programs, cosmetology, auto repair and so on.

 

[Granite]

Nicodemus was a very rich christian who paid for Christs tomb, i don't recall Christ ever condemning him because of his wealth.

No, Joseph of Arimathea paid for the tomb. Nicodemus helped prepare the body. The subject of wealth simply didn't come up in their discussion. "Woe to you who are rich" seems pretty straightforward, though.

Being wealthy isnt a sin, unless you put that wealth before God, and what is what Christ was addressing with the rich man who would not follow Him.

Scripture does not praise wealth or the rich. You were told to give up your possessions. The rich are consistently cursed and denounced throughout scripture, the gospels especially.

If anyone doubts God blesses people with wealth, see Solomon.

The apostate? The idol worshiper? The one who brought in 666 talents of gold at the height of his power? The one who spawned the prince responsible for tearing Israel in two? Yes, what a veritably "blessed" man. So blessed that he spent the last work of his life all he saw as "vanity." You'll find a blistering examination of the rich and poor in chapter five. Ecclesiastes doesn't strike me as the observations of an old man feeling terribly "blessed."

 

[PureX]

Well, they could do what I did, join the military, utilize the G.I. bill.
You could also attend a 2yr school for your gen ed., requirements which is usually much less expensive @ 4k a year then transfer to your 4 yr program, you can also take courses in the summer which are usually cheaper.
Like I said opportunity is there for those who will take it.
thank-you

I guess you figured this somehow resolves the problems, but it doesn't. For one thing, there are lots of people for whom military service is not possible. Or for whom the risk is not acceptable. And as to attending a cheaper school for basic classes and then transferring to a regular college for completion, you still have not explained how all this is to be done while working full time, paying for rent, clothes, groceries, and transportation, and paying for school, all on a minimum wage that in most parts of the country is not even enough to live on. Making some of the classes a little cheaper doesn't resolve this difficult problem.

The only real option left is night school, or getting a degree one class at a time. But a lot of minimum wage workers are forced to work schedules all over the clock. And employers are not keen to make scheduling exceptions for those who are taking classes. And it takes so long to finally get a degree that a lot of people simply don't make it all the way through.

Once again, it's easy to say this stuff, and to think it's all nicely resolved in your mind, but the reality of it doesn't play out. There are people who manage to get a degree after a long and difficult struggle, but for each one that does, there are lots more who don't. And the reason isn't because people are stupid, or lazy, or don't want to get ahead. The reason is because people are people, and we are setting the bar too high for most of them to get over. And blaming them doesn't excuse away this simple fact.

The problem is that when we ask ourselves why we are doing this, the answers are not the ones we want to hear, or to face up to. Because the answers involve our own collective greed, and prejudice, having become systematized.

 

[bybee]

I guess you figured this somehow resolves the problems, but it doesn't. For one thing, there are lots of people for whom military service is not possible. Or for whom the risk is not acceptable. And as to attending a cheaper school for basic classes and then transferring to a regular college for completion, you still have not explained how all this is to be done while working full time, paying for rent, clothes, groceries, and transportation, and paying for school, all on a minimum wage that in most parts of the country is not even enough to live on. Making some of the classes a little cheaper doesn't resolve this difficult problem.

The only real option left is night school, or getting a degree one class at a time. But a lot of minimum wage workers are forced to work schedules all over the clock. And employers are not keen to make scheduling exceptions for those who are taking classes. And it takes so long to finally get a degree that a lot of people simply don't make it all the way through.

Once again, it's easy to say this stuff, and to think it's all nicely resolved in your mind, but the reality of it doesn't play out. There are people who manage to get a degree after a long and difficult struggle, but for each one that does, there are lots more who don't. And the reason isn't because people are stupid, or lazy, or don't want to get ahead. The reason is because people are people, and we are setting the bar too high for most of them to get over. And blaming them doesn't excuse away this simple fact.

The problem is that when we ask ourselves why we are doing this, the answers are not the ones we want to hear, or to face up to. Because the answers involve our own collective greed, and prejudice, having become systematized.

A college degree is not the answer for everyone. Trade school is not the answer for everyone. BUT, staying in school and taking advantage of all that High School has to offer is an answer!
There all kind of jobs available for all levels of talent.
Some are content to have little responsibility and prefer clear cut job description parameters. They take a paycheck home and are content.
Society is comprised of all sorts of people. AND just as all poor people are not envious, so too not all rich people are greedy.
You are guilty of that egregiously Progressive mind set "Let's tar all rich people with the same brush then we can rob, steal, malign, riot, destroy their property and beat defenseless white people in the name of , we've been abused"!
Life-will-never-be-perfect! or anywhere near perfect! But whining and sniveling and spewing hate filled rhetoric which shows only too well your victim mentality is not the answer.
Make the best of what you have.

 

[resurrected]

purex complains that it's difficult

why should anybody expect otherwise? :idunno:

 

[WizardofOz]

What. Should. The. Minimum. Wage. Be?

A lot of people are whining that wages are too low but don't have a specific solution as to what they should be...

Should a fast food worker in Alabama be entitled to the same wage as a fast food worker in NY?

A federal minimum wage is madness. If at all, it should be set by each state based on their economic needs.