Faithful Christians abstain from drinking alcohol

[marke]

Strong drink is very bad and anyone wishing to please God will stay away from all alcoholic beverages that lead to drunkenness.

Proverbs 20:1
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

 

[Hoping]

Strong drink is very bad and anyone wishing to please God will stay away from all alcoholic beverages that lead to drunkenness.

Proverbs 20:1
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Yikes, and Jesus' first miracle was to turn water into "good" wine.
It is written..."Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand." (Phil 4:5)
The undeceived partake moderately.

 

[Bradley D]

The epistles promote sobriety!

"But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet" (1Thess. 5:8).

 

[marke]

Yikes, and Jesus' first miracle was to turn water into "good" wine.
It is written..."Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand." (Phil 4:5)
The undeceived partake moderately.

Is this some sort of justification for drinking alcoholic beverages? I do not believe we should think God favors alcoholic beverages just because some famous believers in the Bible got drunk or because Jesus turned water into some kind of wine the wedding hosts had never tasted before.

Leviticus 10:9
Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

Judges 13:4
Now therefore beware, I pray thee, and drink not wine nor strong drink, and eat not any unclean thing:

Proverbs 31:4
It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:

Isaiah 5:22
Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:

Isaiah 28:7
But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

Luke 1:15
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Strong drink is very bad

You must think Jesus was an enabler then:

On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.Now both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding.And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.”Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come.”His mother said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it. ”Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of purification of the Jews, containing twenty or thirty gallons apiece.Jesus said to them, “Fill the waterpots with water.” And they filled them up to the brim.And He said to them, “Draw some out now, and take it to the master of the feast.” And they took it.When the master of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the master of the feast called the bridegroom.And he said to him, “Every man at the beginning sets out the good wine, and when the guests have well drunk, then the inferior. You have kept the good wine until now!” - John 2:1-10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John2:1-10&version=NKJV

and anyone wishing to please God will stay away from all alcoholic beverages that lead to drunkenness.

Paul told Timothy to "no longer drink only water," but to drink some wine to help his stomach and overall health.

No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities. - 1 Timothy 5:23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy5:23&version=NKJV

Proverbs 20:1
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Which says nothing about drinking alcohol being a sin.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Is this some sort of justification for drinking alcoholic beverages?

No, it's correction of your wrong belief.

I do not believe we should think God favors alcoholic beverages

No one said He favors them.

What does the scripture say:

Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, - 1 Timothy 3:8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy3:8&version=NKJV

In other words, it's not drinking wine or having money that's the sin, it's greed, and drunkenness.

Big difference!

just because some famous believers in the Bible got drunk

Drinking alcohol != getting drunk

Many people can have a sip of alcohol at dinner without getting drunk.

or because Jesus turned water into some kind of wine the wedding hosts had never tasted before.

The wine Jesus turned the water into was considered "good wine," meaning the guy who tasted it knew his wine.

Leviticus 10:9
Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

A law for the priests of Israel not meant for believers today.

Judges 13:4
Now therefore beware, I pray thee, and drink not wine nor strong drink, and eat not any unclean thing:

Again, a law for Israel, not for believers in the Body of Christ.

Proverbs 31:4
It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:

A general rule of thumb saying that it's a bad idea to get drunk.

Isaiah 5:22
Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:

A caution against drinking, not an outright prohibition.

Isaiah 28:7
But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

Talking about drunkenness, not just drinking alcohol.

Luke 1:15
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

A law for nazarites, taken in the form of an oath.

Once again, NOT FOR CHRISTIANS.

 

[Hoping]

Is this some sort of justification for drinking alcoholic beverages? I do not believe we should think God favors alcoholic beverages just because some famous believers in the Bible got drunk or because Jesus turned water into some kind of wine the wedding hosts had never tasted before.

Leviticus 10:9
Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

Judges 13:4
Now therefore beware, I pray thee, and drink not wine nor strong drink, and eat not any unclean thing:

Proverbs 31:4
It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:

Isaiah 5:22
Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:

Isaiah 28:7
But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

Luke 1:15
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

As one who is no longer under the Law, one beer with pizza suits me fine.
Paul writes..."All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." (1 Cor 6:12)
Moderation is the key with any food or drink.

 

[Right Divider]

Is this some sort of justification for drinking alcoholic beverages? I do not believe we should think God favors alcoholic beverages just because some famous believers in the Bible got drunk or because Jesus turned water into some kind of wine the wedding hosts had never tasted before.

Leviticus 10:9
Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

Quoting Lev 10:9 without 10:8 is a bit dishonest in regard to your idea.

Lev 10:8-11 (AKJV/PCE)
(10:8) ¶ And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying, (10:9) Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: [it shall be] a statute for ever throughout your generations: (10:10) And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; (10:11) And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.

That was NOT a general command given to ALL people. It was specific to a man and his sons AND it was specific to a TIME and an ACTIVITY.

 

[marke]

You must think Jesus was an enabler then:

On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.Now both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding.And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.”Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come.”His mother said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it. ”Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of purification of the Jews, containing twenty or thirty gallons apiece.Jesus said to them, “Fill the waterpots with water.” And they filled them up to the brim.And He said to them, “Draw some out now, and take it to the master of the feast.” And they took it.When the master of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the master of the feast called the bridegroom.And he said to him, “Every man at the beginning sets out the good wine, and when the guests have well drunk, then the inferior. You have kept the good wine until now!” - John 2:1-10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John2:1-10&version=NKJV



Paul told Timothy to "no longer drink only water," but to drink some wine to help his stomach and overall health.

No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities. - 1 Timothy 5:23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy5:23&version=NKJV



Which says nothing about drinking alcohol being a sin.

There are no verses encouraging Christians to drink and several verses indicating God is displeased with wine and strong drink in some contexts, so I advocate abstinence.

 

[JudgeRightly]

There are no verses encouraging Christians to drink

Paul encouraged Timothy, a Christian, to help with his stomach and overall health.

Someone's in denial.

and several verses indicating God is displeased with wine and strong drink in some contexts,

The contexts you describe are when the people drinking it are drunk.

Again, it's DRUNKENNESS that God is displeased with, not drinking.

so I advocate abstinence.

There's nothing wrong with that. The problem arises when you claim that Scripture supports your advocation, because it does not.

 

[marke]

Paul encouraged Timothy, a Christian, to help with his stomach and overall health.

Someone's in denial.



The contexts you describe are when the people drinking it are drunk.

Again, it's DRUNKENNESS that God is displeased with, not drinking.



There's nothing wrong with that. The problem arises when you claim that Scripture supports your advocation, because it does not.

I see where Christians are encouraged to pray, but not where Christians are encouraged to drink alcohol or fermented beverages. What I see are excuses for believing there is nothing wrong with drinking (as long as it stops short of the legal or spiritual level of drunkenness) but even a few glasses of wine can make a person legally too drunk to drive, so that is a problem as well.

 

[Right Divider]

I see where Christians are encouraged to pray, but not where Christians are encouraged to drink alcohol or fermented beverages. What I see are excuses for believing there is nothing wrong with drinking (as long as it stops short of the legal or spiritual level of drunkenness) but even a few glasses of wine can make a person legally too drunk to drive, so that is a problem as well.

So don't drink and drive.

Christ did not condemn drinking alcohol and drank wine Himself.

 

[marke]

So don't drink and drive.

Christ did not condemn drinking alcohol and drank wine Himself.

Proverbs 20:1
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Did Jesus believe His wine was a mocker or was that just other people's wines? Maybe Jesus' wine was not fermented, since leaven was not allowed in homes sanctified for religious observations.

Exodus
18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

19 Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.

20 Ye shall eat nothing leavened; in all your habitations shall ye eat unleavened bread.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I see where Christians are encouraged to pray, but not where Christians are encouraged to drink alcohol or fermented beverages.

To begin with, an argument from incredulity is an informal logical fallacy.

Also, I literally quoted scripture where Paul encouraged Timothy to have a little wine for his stomach's sake (pun not intended) and overall health.

Paul told Timothy to "no longer drink only water," but to drink some wine to help his stomach and overall health.

No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities. - 1 Timothy 5:23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy5:23&version=NKJV

That you keep ignoring the verse shows your belligerence.

What I see are excuses for believing there is nothing wrong with drinking (as long as it stops short of the legal or spiritual level of drunkenness)

Again, there is no prohibition against drinking. There IS a warning against drunkenness.

but even a few glasses of wine can make a person legally too drunk to drive, so that is a problem as well.

Yes, "a few glasses of wine."

But that's a few glasses of wine, not a sip or single glass of wine. Again, the Bible is against DRUNKENNESS, not drinking!

Paul also wrote to Timothy that deacons should not.... Drink wine? No, "be given to much wine."

Meaning they are allowed to drink, but they shouldn't be considered a... You guessed it!... A drunkard!

Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, - 1 Timothy 3:8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy3:8&version=NKJV

 

[JudgeRightly]

Maybe Jesus' wine was not fermented, since leaven was not allowed in homes sanctified for religious observations.

You're not paying attention,

Just read what the master of the feast said about the wine Jesus made!

On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.Now both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding.And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.”Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come.”His mother said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it. ”Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of purification of the Jews, containing twenty or thirty gallons apiece.Jesus said to them, “Fill the waterpots with water.” And they filled them up to the brim.And He said to them, “Draw some out now, and take it to the master of the feast.” And they took it.When the master of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the master of the feast called the bridegroom.And he said to him, “Every man at the beginning sets out the good wine, and when the guests have well drunk, then the inferior. You have kept the good wine until now!” - John 2:1-10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John2:1-10&version=NKJV

Jesus made the good stuff!

He didn't make inferior wine!

 

[marke]

To begin with, an argument from incredulity is an informal logical fallacy.

Also, I literally quoted scripture where Paul encouraged Timothy to have a little wine for his stomach's sake (pun not intended) and overall health.



That you keep ignoring the verse shows your belligerence.



Again, there is no prohibition against drinking. There IS a warning against drunkenness.



Yes, "a few glasses of wine."

But that's a few glasses of wine, not a sip or single glass of wine. Again, the Bible is against DRUNKENNESS, not drinking!

Paul also wrote to Timothy that deacons should not.... Drink wine? No, "be given to much wine."

Meaning they are allowed to drink, but they shouldn't be considered a... You guessed it!... A drunkard!

Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, - 1 Timothy 3:8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy3:8&version=NKJV

Whatever is not of faith is sin. If the Lord leads a Christian to drink then he should drink, but I don't see any scripture leading Christians to drink. The same thing holds true with eating meat. If God leads a Christian to eat meat then he should eat meat. If not then he should not eat meat.

Romans 14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

 

[marke]

You're not paying attention,

Just read what the master of the feast said about the wine Jesus made!

On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.Now both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding.And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.”Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come.”His mother said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it. ”Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of purification of the Jews, containing twenty or thirty gallons apiece.Jesus said to them, “Fill the waterpots with water.” And they filled them up to the brim.And He said to them, “Draw some out now, and take it to the master of the feast.” And they took it.When the master of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the master of the feast called the bridegroom.And he said to him, “Every man at the beginning sets out the good wine, and when the guests have well drunk, then the inferior. You have kept the good wine until now!” - John 2:1-10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John2:1-10&version=NKJV

Jesus made the good stuff!

He didn't make inferior wine!

I see no problem believing the wine Jesus made did not include leaven and if it did not include leaven then it was not fermented.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Whatever is not of faith is sin. If the Lord leads a Christian to drink then he should drink, but I don't see any scripture leading Christians to drink. The same thing holds true with eating meat. If God leads a Christian to eat meat then he should eat meat. If not then he should not eat meat.

Romans 14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Just because "you don't see it" doesn't mean it's true or false.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving;for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. - 1 Timothy 4:1-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy4:1-5&version=NKJV

 

[JudgeRightly]

I see no problem believing the wine Jesus made did not include leaven and if it did not include leaven then it was not fermented.

Why are you denying clear scripture!?

You're not paying attention!

Just read what the master of the feast said about the wine Jesus made!

On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.Now both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding.And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.”Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come.”His mother said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it. ”Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of purification of the Jews, containing twenty or thirty gallons apiece.Jesus said to them, “Fill the waterpots with water.” And they filled them up to the brim.And He said to them, “Draw some out now, and take it to the master of the feast.” And they took it.When the master of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the master of the feast called the bridegroom.And he said to him, “Every man at the beginning sets out the good wine, and when the guests have well drunk, then the inferior. You have kept the good wine until now!” - John 2:1-10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John2:1-10&version=NKJV

Jesus made the good stuff!

He didn't make inferior wine!

 

[marke]

Just because "you don't see it" doesn't mean it's true or false.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving;for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. - 1 Timothy 4:1-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy4:1-5&version=NKJV

Like I said if the Lord leads you to eat or drink then you should eat or drink. Does the lord want Christians to eat raw bloody meat? Probably not, but if a man believes the Lord wants him to eat raw bloody meat then he should eat to please the Lord and not his medical advisors. If the Lord leads a man to drink alcohol then he should drink alcohol to please the Lord.