Faith to believe on Christ !

[Nanja]

The natural man [unregenerate] can do nothing that pleases God; he doesn't have the ability to submit to God or perform any act that pleases Him.

Yet, in their pride and opposition to the scriptures, insist that the natural can discern spiritual things and please God.

That's exalting the will of man over the Will of God !

1 Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Rom. 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Is. 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

 

[Faither]

The natural man [unregenerate] can do nothing that pleases God; he doesn't have the ability to submit to God or perform any act that pleases Him.

Yet, in their pride and opposition to the scriptures, insist that the natural can discern spiritual things and please God.

That's exalting the will of man over the Will of God !

1 Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Rom. 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Is. 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Who said anything about pleasing God ?

Your said , " surrendering our life and will to God ( pisteuo ,) is exalting man's will over God's will ."

Surrendering our life and will over to God and living a life inspired by such surrender , is how NT saving Faith is applied .

Again , how is this exalting mans will over God's ?

 

[Nanja]

It was God's Will to Create His Vessels of Wrath to be destroyed Rom. 9:22; not surrender to Him.

Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

 

[Faither]

It was God's Will to Create His Vessels of Wrath to be destroyed Rom. 9:22; not surrender to Him.

Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Vessels of wrath ? We're talking about the ones the Father is calling , drawing to Christ !

You seem to be deflecting the question . Let's go back to basics .

Do you recognize the Greek word pisteuo in the original manuscripts ?

Do you recognize pisteuo in the Strongs means " NOT " just to believe ?

Do you recognize that the Vines defines pisteuo , used 248 times , as " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender " .

If yes you do recognize those facts . Again , how is this ( true NT saving Faith and faithing ) exalting man will over God's ?

 

[Nanja]

Faith that pleases God is a work by one who has been made Righteous by the Obedience of Jesus Christ on their behalf.

Rom. 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

And so, as a Spiritual Blessing, they are born again / Born of the Spirit of God, of which Faith is a fruit of:

Gal. 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

And that's why it's called the the Faith of God's Elect Titus 1:1, because they were Chosen to Salvation, and belief of the Truth through the sanctifying work of the Spirit:

2 Thes. 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Rom. 8:16
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his Rom. 8:9 !

 

[beloved57]

More scripture that indicates that Faith is of the Power of God is in Rom 11 when God through Paul tells believing Gentiles they stand by Faith so dont boast Rom 11: 19-21

[FONT=&quot]19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Now later in the letter Paul writes that believers stand by Gods ability. Rom 14:4

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Now the word stand here and in Rom 11:20 are the same greek word histēmi and means:

to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set

And as it seen in Rom 14 they are caused to stand by Gods ability or dynatos power might, powerful



By Gods Power His servant are holden up in Faith

The Gentiles in Rom 11 could become high minded because they had been grafted into the tree and many jews had been broken off because of unbelief, because the only reason why they had faith to begin with was by Gods power, not a fathom freewill !


[/FONT]

 

[Nanja]

beloved57

By Gods Power His servant are holden up in Faith

The Gentiles in Rom 11 could become high minded because they had been grafted into the tree and many jews had been broken off because of unbelief, because the only reason why they had faith to begin with was by Gods power, not a fathom freewill !

Absolutely ! Those who stand by Faith Rom. 11:20 are the People God foreknew Rom. 11:2, which shall be Given that ability, not by exercising their own imaginary freewill choice, but by the Power of God Rom. 14:4; 1 Pet. 1:5 when they are Born of the Spirit [New Birth] and given Faith, of Whom Faith is a Fruit of Gal. 5:22.

 

[beloved57]

beloved57




Absolutely ! Those who stand by Faith Rom. 11:20 are the People God foreknew Rom. 11:2, which shall be Given that ability, not by exercising their own imaginary freewill choice, but by the Power of God Rom. 14:4; 1 Pet. 1:5 when they are Born of the Spirit [New Birth] and given Faith, of Whom Faith is a Fruit of Gal. 5:22.

Amen, 1 Pet 1:5 is good verse to add, thanx

 

[Nanja]

Amen, 1 Pet 1:5 is good verse to add, thanx

My pleasure !

 

[Faither]

beloved57




Absolutely ! Those who stand by Faith Rom. 11:20 are the People God foreknew Rom. 11:2, which shall be Given that ability, not by exercising their own imaginary freewill choice, but by the Power of God Rom. 14:4; 1 Pet. 1:5 when they are Born of the Spirit [New Birth] and given Faith, of Whom Faith is a Fruit of Gal. 5:22.

Even though you and beloved don't have a correct understanding of what Faith and faithing are , I'll ask a question about what your current understanding is .

Every post the two of you make , you say God gives you "NT saving Faith and faithing " , and that there is no effort or work associated with the Faith that saves . Setting aside the correct definitions , you now are saying God gives us the " ability " to faithe .

Now there is a big difference between God giving the called " NT saving Faith and faithing" and the " ability " to fulfill NT saving Faith and faithing .

So my question is , when God gives the called the " ability " to faithe , what do the called do with that ability, that would complete NT saving Faith and faithing in your eyes ?

 

[Faither]

Even though you and beloved don't have a correct understanding of what Faith and faithing are , I'll ask a question about what your current understanding is .

Every post the two of you make , you say God gives you "NT saving Faith and faithing " , and that there is no effort or work associated with the Faith that saves . Setting aside the correct definitions , you now are saying God gives us the " ability " to faithe .

Now there is a big difference between God giving the called " NT saving Faith and faithing" and the " ability " to fulfill NT saving Faith and faithing .

So my question is , when God gives the called the " ability " to faithe , what do the called do with that ability, that would complete NT saving Faith and faithing in your eyes ?

Can I assume you don't have an answer to this question ? Nanja

 

[Nanja]

Faither

So my question is , when God gives the called the " ability " to faithe , what do the called do with that ability, that would complete NT saving Faith and faithing in your eyes ?

"Ability to faithe" is not found in scripture !

Why is it that you never quote scripture ?

2 Tim. 3:16 !

 

[Faither]

beloved57




Absolutely ! Those who stand by Faith Rom. 11:20 are the People God foreknew Rom. 11:2, which shall be Given that ability, not by exercising their own imaginary freewill choice, but by the Power of God Rom. 14:4; 1 Pet. 1:5 when they are Born of the Spirit [New Birth] and given Faith, of Whom Faith is a Fruit of Gal. 5:22.

I'm questioning why you used the words , " shall be given that ability " .

You always say Faith is a free gift . Now your saying he gives us the ," ability " to faithe , or what you misunderstand as believing .

How do you apply the ability you say God gives you to complete the Faith in you ?

 

[Nanja]

Faither

Now your saying he gives us the ," ability " to faithe

No, I did not say that !

" ability " to faithe is not found in scripture !

 

[Faither]

beloved57




Absolutely ! Those who stand by Faith Rom. 11:20 are the People God foreknew Rom. 11:2, which shall be Given that ability, not by exercising their own imaginary freewill choice, but by the Power of God Rom. 14:4; 1 Pet. 1:5 when they are Born of the Spirit [New Birth] and given Faith, of Whom Faith is a Fruit of Gal. 5:22.

Yes you did , Right here !
Do I need to point it out a third time ?

 

[Nanja]

Yes you did , Right here !
Do I need to point it out a third time ?

Wrong again! I did not say "ability to faithe" !

 

[Faither]

Wrong again! I did not say "ability to faithe" !

Try this ?

What did you say ?

 

[Faither]

This is where you disappear and don't reply right ?

You don't need to play games if you can't back up your understandings , how else will you learn ?

 

[Nanja]

This is where you disappear and don't reply right ?

You don't need to play games if you can't back up your understandings , how else will you learn ?

Why is it that you never quote scripture to support your belief system ?

2 Tim. 3:16 !

 

[MennoSota]

Faith seems to be a gift of the covenantal relationship God establishes with His elect.
Review the life of Abraham and see how often God gave Abraham the promise, yet Abraham failed to believe and chose actions according to his selfish direction.
It isn't until God establishes His covenant with Abraham when God passes between the sacrifice of the heifer that you see Abraham exhibiting a faith unto death. It was after the covenant was established that Abraham was told to sacrifice Isaac and Abraham obeyed.
In that scene we see God’s covenantal faith established in Abraham.