ECT Faith + Obedience = Salvation?

[Jerry Shugart]

Again wrong ! Common sense tells me no one can walk on water or heal the diseased, Jerry it takes the word of God and faith i.e. belief.

I already said that the word of God is supernatural and gives us the evidence of things not seen. What did you not understand about that?

So are you denying that common sense is needed to understand what the Scriptures teach?

Are you willing to argue that Paul was in error when he reasoned out of the Scriptures?

You seem to think that you are an expert on how a person is supposed to come to the knowledge of the truth found in the Scriptures so what advice would you give anyone who would like to do that.

By osmosis?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

More words. What does all that mean given it is you/I who needs to overcome?

In my case it means that since I have faith I have already overcome.

"For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith" (1 Jn.5:4).​

 

[dodge]

I already said that the word of God is supernatural and gives us the evidence of things not seen. What did you not understand about that?

So are you denying that common sense is needed to understand what the Scriptures teach?

Are you willing to argue that Paul was in error when he reasoned out of the Scriptures?

You seem to think that you are an expert on how a person is supposed to come to the knowledge of the truth found in the Scriptures so what advice would you give anyone who would like to do that.

By osmosis?

You say a lot of stuff that just aint so.A persons intellect has NOTHING to do with salvation.

Rom 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[Cross Reference]

In my case it means that since I have faith I have already overcome.

"For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith" (1 Jn.5:4).​

In your case you will believe anything. Faith is simply a word someone dropped on you and your intellect can't seem to find a place for it that makes sense.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

In your case you will believe anything. Faith is simply a word someone dropped on you and your intellect can't seem to find a place for it that makes sense.

I believed what the Scriptures say about how a person overcomes and that is by believing the Scriptures. And unlike you, I know that is true because faith is "the evidence of things not seen" (Heb.11:1).

You deny that truth and you try to make overcoming the world into something other than faith.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You say a lot of stuff that just aint so.A persons intellect has NOTHING to do with salvation.

Rom 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

So are you saying that all a person has to do in order to have faith is just to hear the word of God?

Of course that idea is ridiculous because a person must "believe" the gospel. And the act of believing cannot be accomplished apart from man's intellect.

You seem to think that you are an expert on how a person is supposed to come to the knowledge of the truth found in the Scriptures so what advice would you give anyone who would like to do that?

 

[dodge]

So are you saying that all a person has to do in order to have faith is just to hear the word of God?

Of course that idea is ridiculous because a person must "believe" the gospel. And the act of believing cannot be accomplished apart from man's intellect.

You seem to think that you are an expert on how a person is supposed to come to the knowledge of the truth found in the Scriptures so what advice would you give anyone who would like to do that.

Yep, that scripture is wrong just because YOU say it is wrong. You are of course WRONG AGAIN.

Rom 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Jerry, how can you believe it if you don't hear or read it ? You have gotten into error so deep it looks like you only follow YOU.

Faith trumps intellect EVERY TIME !


1Co 2:1
¶
And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

1Co 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

 

[Cross Reference]

I believed what the Scriptures say about how a person overcomes and that is by believing the scriptures. And unlike you, I know that is true because faith is "the evidence of things not seen" (Heb.11:1).

You deny that truth and you try to make overcoming the world into something other than faith.

But you wrote above that "the word of God is supernatural and gives us the evidence of things not seen".

Not that I believe it would help you in your state of presumption but, I don't believe you sufficiently understand the issues that you try to explain before investigating the scriptures..

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, how can you believe it if you don't hear or read it ? You have gotten into error so deep it looks like you only follow YOU.

How can you believe it if you do not use your intellect?

 

[Cross Reference]

Hey Lil' Jerry, Don't you think it is time for you leave this so-called Christian forum? You are batting a 1000 for the opposing team.

 

[dodge]

How can you believe it if you do not use your intellect?

Through trusting God above your intelligence or what you think you might know. You have to die to self to live, as scripture says.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Not that I believe it would help you in your state of presumption but, I don't believe you sufficiently understand the issues that you try to explain before investigating the scriptures..

Unlike you I believe that in the following verse the Scriptures reveal that it is by faith that a person overcomes the world:

"For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith" (1 Jn.5:4).​

What do you think that it takes for anyone to overcome the world?

 

[Cross Reference]

What do you think that it takes for anyone to overcome the world?

Submitting to the yoke of Christ and following Him. Do you really want to argue with that?

 

[dodge]

Unlike you I believe that in the following verse the Scriptures reveal that it is by faith that a person overcomes the world:

"For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith" (1 Jn.5:4).​

What do you think that it takes for anyone to overcome the world?

We know they do not overcome the world through their intellect !

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Through trusting God above your intelligence or what you think you might know. You have to die to self to live, as scripture says.

Do you think that you can believe the gospel apart from your intellect?:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

According to your ridiculous ideas Paul was in error when he "reasoned out of the Scriptures" when he preached the word of God:

"And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures" (Acts 17:2).​

 

[Cross Reference]

Do you think that you can believe the gospel apart from your intellect?:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

According to your ridiculous ideas Paul was in error when he "reasoned out of the Scriptures" when he preached the word of God:

"And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures" (Acts 17:2).​

Paul had been with Christ. Paul was Baptzed by Jesus Christ with the Holy Spirit. Who have you been with? Have you been Baptized with the Holy Spirit by Jesus? Do you honestly believe your intellect can carry the day in a conversation with anyone as Paul experienced? Paul was a Pentecostal. What/Who are you that you believe requires only an intellect sans the Holy Spirit to preach Jesus?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

We know they do not overcome the world through their intellect !

You cannot believe something or have faith in what is found in the Scriptures unless you use your brain.

Please give me a definition of the word "believe" which proves your idea that the intellect plays no part in coming to faith.

 

[dodge]

Do you think that you can believe the gospel apart from your intellect?:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

According to your ridiculous ideas Paul was in error when he "reasoned out of the Scriptures" when he preached the word of God:

"And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures" (Acts 17:2).​

Jerry, you start and end with "you" as in believing INTELLECT is the key and it is NOT your intellect that changes your heart. You do understand that God works through man's heart NOT their head. When one is confronted with the truth i.e. the gospel they either reject that truth or embrace that truth.

The Apostle Paul used his "intellect" when he persecuted the church. God conquered Paul's intellect and made it subservient to FAITH in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Paul had been with Christ. Paul was Baptzed by Jesus Christ with the Holy Spirit. Who have you been with? Have you been Baptized with the Holy Spirit by Jesus? Do you honestly believe your intellect can carry the day in a conversation with anyone as Paul experienced? Paul was a Pentecostal. What/Who are you that you believe requires only an intellect sans the Holy Spirit to preach Jesus?

Please cease from misrepresenting what I said. I never said that faith requires only intellect apart from the Holy Spirit. I said that the word of God is supernatural and it comes in power and in the Holy Spirit (1 Thess.1:5).

I said that in order to understand what is being said in the Scriptures we must use our brains. And that is why Paul "reasoned out of the Scriptures" when he preached:

"And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures" (Acts 17:2).​

Do you think that Paul should not have reasoned out of the Scriptures when he preached?

 

[Cross Reference]

Please cease from misrepresenting what I said. I never said that faith requires only intellect apart from the Holy Spirit. I said that the word of God is supernatural and it comes in power and in the Holy Spirit (1 Thess.1:5).

I said that in order to understand what is being said in the Scriptures we must use our brains. And that is why Paul "reasoned out of the Scriptures" when he preached:

"And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures" (Acts 17:2).​

Do you think that Paul should not have reasoned out of the Scriptures when he preached?

If God be for you, who can be against you? Nice try. No cigar.