ECT Faith + Obedience = Salvation?

Cross Reference

New member
I addressed your question. I told you exactly what the Bible reveals about the eternal security enjoyed by Christians. It was you who did not attempt to address the verses which I quoted which proves it.



In any capacity? You did not say even one single word about any of those verses. Why not?



I addressed that earlier and you made no objections. We can see that James believed that a person is born of God by the word of truth alone:

"He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created" (Jas.1:18).​



If you are not going to even attempt to address the verses which I quoted then just admit that you do not have an intelligent answer to them.



Then please give me your interpretation of the meaning of the Lord Jesus' words in the following verse free from doctrinal bias:

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:28).​

Why can't we agree that Jesus has this quality of Christian in mind; i.e., the Christian who pursues intimacy with Him, when He said this:

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. . . . . . John 17:3 (KJV)

To help make it happen He did this:

". . . the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." John 17:22-23 (KJV)

So that you see that includes the Christian of today who qualifies, please read the verses inbetween those passages.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Paul gave commandments.
1 Thes. 4:1 Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more. 2 For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.
Then he lists some in verses 3-7 then he says
8 So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.

Do we have the authority to change the Lord's supper from unleavened bread and fruit of the vine to cookies and milk?

Hi and I had to check the Greek word for 1 Thess 4:2 and it is NOT the Greek for commandment !!

The ACTUAL Greek word is PARAGGELIA and it means COMMAND !!

The Greek word means COMMAND , MANDATE or CHARGE !!

Check SRONG'S G3852 and you will see !!

dan p
 

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame

DAN P

Well-known member
Re; John 3:3,5: Was Nicodemus saved? Was he born again?


Read it first before answering.


Hi , and to be BORN AGAIN , it is with WATER and of the Spirit ??

Where is the BLOOD ??

You need to study Paul where there is NO WATER !!

By Pauline definition we are a NEW CREATION or a NEW CREATURE , not BORN AGAIN !!

Care to explain how you were saved ??

Tell me with a verse !!

dan p
 

Cross Reference

New member
Hi , and to be BORN AGAIN , it is with WATER and of the Spirit ??

Where is the BLOOD ??

You need to study Paul where there is NO WATER !!

By Pauline definition we are a NEW CREATION or a NEW CREATURE , not BORN AGAIN !!

Care to explain how you were saved ??

Tell me with a verse !!

dan p

Nope. You got it all figured out your way and your mind is snapped shut. Sorry, I'm not interested.
 

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
So are you saying that someone can be born again but at the same time he is not saved?

He is not able to separate his need to be right from a higher need to be saved. Many here have this ego problem; they can't be wrong no matter what, not even to be free of death. It is easier to save a sinner from corruption of the flesh than one with corruption of the mind.
 

God's Truth

New member
Why don't you try believing what they say?

Paul:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).

According to your ideas the gospel by itself is not the "the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth." According to you a person must do other things besides believe to be saved.

Believe we have to obey Jesus.
All the scriptures that say we have to ‘believe’, those scriptures do not nullify the scriptures that tell us what we have to obey.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.


Peter:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).

A person is born again by the word of God, the gospel. If it takes more than that then why didn't Peter mention anything else?

When people ask Peter what they should do, he told them to get water baptized, the baptism of repentance.

In Acts 2:37 those to whom Peter preached responded by asking, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Peter baptized Cornelius too.

James:

"He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created" (Jas.1;18).

That is the same truth which Peter preached about the new birth. But according to your ideas it is impossible to be born again by just the gospel.

No, James says that faith and right action works together, and that THAT is the faith that was spoken of that made Abraham righteous.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

..........
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.


…..
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

The Lord Jesus:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).

According to your ideas no one can inherit eternal life just by believing.

Unless we eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, we have no life in us. Jesus tells us the truth, if anyone obeys his word, he will never see death, John 8:51. So then, we can see that we have to believe that we have to obey Jesus.
 

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
If it takes faith plus obedience in order to be saved then what level of obedience is required?

In other words, what must a believer do in order to inherit eternal life according to his obedience? Is he just supposed to do the best that he can do to live a moral life? In my case I know that I have not always done my best to live that kind of a life so am I disqualified from ever attaining the eternal life which is in Christ Jesus?
Ro 4:8 :dizzy:
 

God's Truth

New member
We should all obey God 100% of the time. You will NOT receive eternal life by obeying God.

John 8:51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death."

God opens the eyes of those who believe.

John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

Psalm 119:100 I have more understanding than the elders, for I obey your precepts.

Proverbs 3:32 For the LORD detests the perverse but takes the upright into his confidence.

Proverbs 1:23 Repent at my rebuke! Then I will pour out my thoughts to you, I will make known to you my teachings.

See Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.
 

God's Truth

New member
Do you always answer a question with another question?

No. I just want to understand what you are asking.


Are you willing to argue that a person must change his sinful lifestyle even before hearing the gospel in order to be saved?

It is to those the message has been sent.

However, Paul is an example of even a violent person being able to be saved after HEARING the word, see Romans 10:17. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14, and being PERSUADED, 2 Corinthians 5:11.

In Acts 26:17 Jesus tells Paul he is sending him to the Jews and Gentiles to OPEN THEIR EYES and turn them from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God. How do you think Paul is going to open the eyes of the Jews and the Gentiles? Remember, faith comes from hearing the word, and Jesus sent Paul to preach the gospel. 1 Corinthians 1:18 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel–not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Paul is going to open their eyes by preaching to them.

Read what Paul says in Romans 16:25-27.

Now to him who is able to ESTABLISH YOU BY MY GOSPEL AND THE PROCLAMATION OF JESUS CHRIST, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and MADE KNOWN THROUGH THE PROPHETIC WRITINGS by the command of the eternal God, SO THAT ALL NATIONS MIGHT BELIEVE AND OBEY HIMto the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.
 

God's Truth

New member
Justification and sanctification are two different things (Jas 2:20). Everyone has faith. :hammer: The type of faith they have? That's a different story altogether. :juggle:

Justification and sanctified are the same, they happen the same time for the same reason.
 
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