ECT Ezekiel 38-39 As Metaphor

northwye

New member
Ezekiel 38-39 As Metaphor

The interpretation that the Ezekiel 38-39 prophecy is Russia and allies invading Palestine is found in a 1855 book by John Cumming, called The End: The Proximate Signs of the Close of This Dispensation. Comming is explicit in saying Russia will try to invade and destroy Palestine. He says "Russia will burst forth, overcome all resistance, march to Palestine..." The End, 1855, London: John Farquahar Shaw, page 277.

The Late Great Planet Earth, 1970, by Hal Lindsey, followed John Cumming in interpreting Ezekiel 38-39 as being an attempted invasion and destruction of the nation of Israel by Russia and allies.

Hal Lindsey's focus on national Israel - the state called Israel - is largely due to his dispensational presuppositions which dogmatically assert that God now has two peoples, Old Covenant Israel and the Capital C Church.

Lindsey, like most dispensationalists sees Old Covenant Israel as being made up of the multitude in that collective. The remnant is not part of dispensationalist theology. The dispensationalist church does not acknowledge the existence of a remnant. If they did it would be, for them, the remnant of the church. There is no remnant of the church in scripture, only the remnant of Israel. Under the New Covenant the remnant of Israel is the remnant of Israel reborn in Jesus Christ, who have his testimony (Revelation 12: 17). Dispensationalists deal with the big group, the entire church, the broad way of Matthew 7: 13-14..

Dispensationalism holds that the multitude, the entire house of Old Covenant Israel, rejected Christ, but does not make that remnant (Romans 11: 1-5) which accepted Christ as fulfilling the prophecies of II Kings 21: 13, Isaiah 29: 16 and Jeremiah 18: 1-6 part of dispensationalist theology.

"From the time of Christ’s rejection by Israel until the time when God deals specifically with Israel again in the seventieth week it is not possible to refer to a remnant of the nation Israel." From Things To Come, 1965, By J. Dwight Pentecost.

And like most dispensationalists, Hal Lindsey believes that the nation in the Middle East called Israel is Israel, and in dispensationalism Israel can only mean Old Covenant Israel. This focus upon the physical nation called Israel is a major reason why Stephen Sizer and others call dispenationalism Christian Zionism.

Ezekiel 38: 17-18: "Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?
18. And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face."

I Peter 1: 10-12 states that "Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11. Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into."

Peter is talking about the same prophets of Israel that Ezekiel talks about (Ezekiel 38: 17-18). In interpreting Ezekiel 38 by use of New Covenant doctrines, Israel would not be God's people as a physical nation in the Middle East claiming to still be the chosen people under the Old Covenant. It would be the born again Christians who Gog is coming against. And these born again Christians are not concentrated in any one country, but are all over the world.

And the prophets of Israel under the New Covenant would not be those of the Old Testament, but the born again Christians. Gog is to come against the born again Christians. Gog is metaphoric for the huge number of false prophets (Matthew 24: 11, II Peter 2: 1-3) who come against New Covenant Israel in the last time, teaching false doctrines.
 

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Just a (minor?) note about Cumming. While I won't debate his dispensationalist leanings, it should be noted that he wasn't a futurist. His notes on Revelation retain a distinctly classical Protestant historicist character. I am not familiar with his exposition on Ezekiel, but my impression of modern , popular prophetic commentators (Lindsey being a prime example - and he didn't even write all his own stuff) is that they are too short-sighted. End-times prophecy (it is supposed) has to be all about our generation. So in reading Cumming, I wouldn't necessarily read him as an endorsement of Lindsey.

As to Gog (and Magog) I would think Revelation makes it clear it isn't simply some national identity.
 

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Yes. Isn't your profile image on TOL a painting of Tyndale

Yes it is. Depicted in that portrait is the very foundation of the Reformation, (the broader part of) Modern Western Civilization and the modern English language and its power. And "all" Tyndale wanted to do was give the common man a copy of the scriptures in his own tongue. He gave his very life for just that.
 

whitestone

Well-known member
Ezekiel 38-39 As Metaphor

The interpretation that the Ezekiel 38-39 prophecy is Russia and allies invading Palestine is found in a 1855 book by John Cumming, called The End: The Proximate Signs of the Close of This Dispensation. Comming is explicit in saying Russia will try to invade and destroy Palestine. He says "Russia will burst forth, overcome all resistance, march to Palestine..." The End, 1855, London: John Farquahar Shaw, page 277.

The Late Great Planet Earth, 1970, by Hal Lindsey, followed John Cumming in interpreting Ezekiel 38-39 as being an attempted invasion and destruction of the nation of Israel by Russia and allies.

Hal Lindsey's focus on national Israel - the state called Israel - is largely due to his dispensational presuppositions which dogmatically assert that God now has two peoples, Old Covenant Israel and the Capital C Church.

Lindsey, like most dispensationalists sees Old Covenant Israel as being made up of the multitude in that collective. The remnant is not part of dispensationalist theology. The dispensationalist church does not acknowledge the existence of a remnant. If they did it would be, for them, the remnant of the church. There is no remnant of the church in scripture, only the remnant of Israel. Under the New Covenant the remnant of Israel is the remnant of Israel reborn in Jesus Christ, who have his testimony (Revelation 12: 17). Dispensationalists deal with the big group, the entire church, the broad way of Matthew 7: 13-14..

Dispensationalism holds that the multitude, the entire house of Old Covenant Israel, rejected Christ, but does not make that remnant (Romans 11: 1-5) which accepted Christ as fulfilling the prophecies of II Kings 21: 13, Isaiah 29: 16 and Jeremiah 18: 1-6 part of dispensationalist theology.

"From the time of Christ’s rejection by Israel until the time when God deals specifically with Israel again in the seventieth week it is not possible to refer to a remnant of the nation Israel." From Things To Come, 1965, By J. Dwight Pentecost.

And like most dispensationalists, Hal Lindsey believes that the nation in the Middle East called Israel is Israel, and in dispensationalism Israel can only mean Old Covenant Israel. This focus upon the physical nation called Israel is a major reason why Stephen Sizer and others call dispenationalism Christian Zionism.

Ezekiel 38: 17-18: "Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?
18. And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face."

I Peter 1: 10-12 states that "Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11. Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into."

Peter is talking about the same prophets of Israel that Ezekiel talks about (Ezekiel 38: 17-18). In interpreting Ezekiel 38 by use of New Covenant doctrines, Israel would not be God's people as a physical nation in the Middle East claiming to still be the chosen people under the Old Covenant. It would be the born again Christians who Gog is coming against. And these born again Christians are not concentrated in any one country, but are all over the world.

And the prophets of Israel under the New Covenant would not be those of the Old Testament, but the born again Christians. Gog is to come against the born again Christians. Gog is metaphoric for the huge number of false prophets (Matthew 24: 11, II Peter 2: 1-3) who come against New Covenant Israel in the last time, teaching false doctrines.


"After" the 1000 years, Revelation 20:7 KJV ...

Satin/devil tempts Christ "Before" Matthew 4:1-11 KJV ...

Serpent/devil is wroth and wars with the remnant of the woman's seed "before" Revelation 12:17 KJV ...

Satin/devil is bound for a thousand years Revelation 20:2-3 KJV

you have the Gog events taking place "before" the devil is bound instead of "after",,,
 
Top