Everyone Will Die For His Own Sin

[marhig]

"Then the serpent said to the woman, 'You will not surely die.'" (Satan)

"for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." (God)

In the Hebrew the word "surely" is die. God said Adam would die die. Two deaths.

The immortal soul concept is Satan's lie. Immortality is not inherent, it's a gift.

The gift is based on a person's relationship with Jesus Christ.

But Adam didn't die when he disobeyed God and sinned, he was put out of the garden and couldn't eat freely off the tree of Life.

 

[God's Truth]

Logically, start at the historical fact, that is undisputed: Five men were given the death penalty for witnessing to the raising of the Lord Jesus from the dead on the third day; Stephen, James the son of Zebedee brother of the Apostle John, Peter and Paul, and James the author of the eponymous epistle in the New Testament. These facts are recorded within the generation that they happened, the stoning of Stephen and execution of James the brother of John in Acts, the execution of James the non-Apostle/bishop in Josephus, and the executions of Peter and Paul in Rome in Clement's epistle to the Corinthian diocese (with less-firm evidence, it's nonetheless reasonable to accept that all Twelve of the Apostles were also, as Church tradition testifies, given the death penalty for their own witness to the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead on the third day; and besides the fact of these executions, there is the also important fact that there is zero evidence of any Apostles or first bishops of the Church, ever recanting and saying it was made up---zero).

This means it happened. Paul himself says that believing in the resurrection of the Lord Jesus from the dead on the third day, along with confessing with the mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord, is all that's needed for grace through faith, Romans 10:9 (KJV).

The whole rest of Christian theology is explaining all that the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead on the third day means, all that it confirms and proves, as logically necessary further facts. They work both back into the past that led up to the resurrection, and they work forward into the future. The Apostles and writers of the New Testament made it their mission to first and foremost distribute the good news of (verbally; orally and written), and the formal remembrance of, the resurrection of the Lord Jesus from the dead on the third day (the Eucharist), and then to explain all that the resurrection therefore proves and confirms, both in the past leading up to the resurrection, and into the future concerning what we know must also now come to pass.

But the mustard seed of faith, is in the Lord Jesus rising up from the dead on the third day.

You are not acknowledging a very important fact.

That fact is that Jesus is the Sacrificial Lamb of God.

The lamb's blood in the old testament times took away the sins of the people.

God did NOT like it that the Jews would sin, do a righteous act like sacrifice animals, but not really be sorry for their sins.

God spoke of a new covenant to come that would require faith.

Faith is the dividing factor.

The old law was not based on faith; the new covenant is.

Sacrificial Lamb for what? Faith about what?

Why faith?

Why does faith make the difference?

Faith taps into the deeper things of God.

If the Jews angered God for not really being sorry for their sins, even though lambs were sacrificed, what makes you think that it would not anger God for you to come to the Lamb of God's blood and not be sorry for your sins and repent of them?

See, faith makes the difference. People are no longer using the blood they bring, the blood of animals.

Jesus' cleans us with his blood.

How do you ever get that is is wrong for me to preach we have to at least know what sins we are coming to him with?

 

[jamie]

But Adam didn't die when he disobeyed God and sinned

Did God say he would?

If Adam didn't die then he doesn't need a Savior does he?

 

[daqq]

How do they miss that truth?

The only reason I can imagine is because MADism believes that the Testimony of Messiah "was only for the Jews", (when it really "is for all of his disciples"). And if that be true then they are not "in" Messiah at all but rather "in" a perverted version of Paul whose writings they do not understand. To be "in" someone means to be "in" the testimony and doctrine of that particular teacher, (for example to be "in" Moses would have the same meaning). They are simply using the words of Paul and the dispensational doctrine to escape having to apply the Testimony of Messiah to themselves; for they do not even actually believe Paul when he plainly states in more than one place that he teaches the commandments of the Master. One of those places is found right before the context they always quote to supposedly prove that "the Gospel for today" is only found in the writings of Paul, that is, 1Cor 14:37-38, (and they most often quote 1Cor 15:1-4 which follows).

 

[God's Truth]

Is the human spirit created?

Can the human spirit be destroyed?

God gives us our spirit, and it does NOT die.

Luke 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

 

[Nihilo]

You are not acknowledging a very important fact.

That fact is that Jesus is the Sacrificial Lamb of God.

The lamb's blood in the old testament times took away the sins of the people.

God did NOT like it that the Jews would sin, do a righteous act like sacrifice animals, but not really be sorry for their sins.

God spoke of a new covenant to come that would require faith.

Faith is the dividing factor.

The old law was not based on faith; the new covenant is.

Sacrificial Lamb for what? Faith about what?

Why faith?

Why does faith make the difference?

Faith taps into the deeper things of God.

If the Jews angered God for not really being sorry for their sins, even though lambs were sacrificed, what makes you think that it would not anger God for you to come to the Lamb of God's blood and not be sorry for your sins and repent of them?

See, faith makes the difference. People are no longer using the blood they bring, the blood of animals.

Jesus' cleans us with his blood.

How do you ever get that is is wrong for me to preach we have to at least know what sins we are coming to him with?

Yap yap yap. Everything you put forth is above and beyond the fact of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead on the third day.

Anybody can get more reliable information from the Scripture and/or from the Church's magisterium, concerning what else is also true, because of the historical fact of the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead on the third day. We don't need your teaching here.

Stick to what the Apostles actually died for, it was their witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus from the dead on the third day, as historical fact. They were killed because they themselves wouldn't stop yap-yap-yapping about it.

 

[God's Truth]

The only reason I can imagine is because MADism believes that the Testimony of Messiah "was only for the Jews", (when it really "is for all of his disciples"). And if that be true then they are not "in" Messiah at all but rather "in" a perverted version of Paul whose writings they do not understand. To be "in" someone means to be "in" the testimony and doctrine of that particular teacher, (for example to be "in" Moses would have the same meaning). They are simply using the words of Paul and the dispensational doctrine to escape having to apply the Testimony of Messiah to themselves; for they do not even actually believe Paul when he plainly states in more than one place that he teaches the commandments of the Master. One of those places is found right before the context they always quote to supposedly prove that "the Gospel for today" is only found in the writings of Paul, that is, 1Cor 14:37-38, (and they most often quote 1Cor 15:1-4 which follows).

Amen.

Good stuff.

I love it.

So good to read.

I am not sure what all you believe and preach, but this is good.

What you say might very well be the dividing factor.

What you say here is why I am hated here.

It is why all the apostles were persecuted.

 

[God's Truth]

Yap yap yap. Everything you put forth is above and beyond the fact of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead on the third day.

Anybody can get more reliable information from the Scripture and/or from the Church's magisterium, concerning what else is also true, because of the historical fact of the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead on the third day. We don't need your teaching here.

Stick to what the Apostles actually died for, it was their witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus from the dead on the third day, as historical fact. They were killed because they themselves wouldn't stop yap-yap-yapping about it.

What?

Oh Nihilio, what are you saying?

 

[Nihilo]

What?

Oh Nihilio, what are you saying?

It's pretty clear. Everything out of your fingers, and I presume out of your mouth, is wrong. So instead, since you apparently can't shut up (which is fine, and in fact is a gift, when used properly), go back to the historical fact of the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead on the third day. That's what everybody perished for witnessing to back then, that's what they wouldn't shut up about, that's what got them killed. All they had to do, even one of them, was to say that it was made up, and none of them did. Nobody wanted to kill them for the other stuff, it was the resurrection, that's what their enemies, murderers all, couldn't bear. The resurrection means something, it means a lot of things, and the Apostles and bishops of that earliest Church taught all about it, but it was all in regards to what got them killed, which was that the Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead on the third day (Ro10:9KJV 1Co15:4KJV). Nobody would have cared if it didn't happen, all else that they taught meant nothing, if there is no resurrection (1Co15:14KJV). That's the one thing that would have made all the rest of their preaching vain, if the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead on the third day, didn't happen.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Yes, don't see that?

It's his pure life lived out when he was on the earth, and now his life within manifest within the hearts of those born of God, what do you think to drink his blood means?

Jerry, just as our natural blood delivers oxygen to the members of our natural body, Christ by the Spirit delivers the breath of life to keep the church alive in God.

You are so lost and I cannot figure out why you fight so hard to deny that the language in regard to the Lord Jesus' "blood" is in regard to His death upon the Cross:

"And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven" (Col.1:20).​

"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied" (1 Pet.1:3).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The only reason I can imagine is because MADism believes that the Testimony of Messiah "was only for the Jews", (when it really "is for all of his disciples").

Some of His words were only for the Jews (see Matthew 23:1-3) while other things which He said were trans-dispensational:

"Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many" (Mt.20:28).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Good stuff.

If it is so good why do you deny the fact that the Lord Jesus said that those who "believe" receive eternal life and will not be judged?:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

Why do you deny that the Lord's word are not sufficent to bring life to anyone, despite the following words of the Lord Jesus?:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

After the Lord Jesus said those words He said the following to unbelievers like you:

"But there are some of you that believe not" (Jn.6:64).​

 

[God's Truth]

If it is so good why do you deny the fact that the Lord Jesus said that those who "believe" receive eternal life and will not be judged?:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

Why do you deny that the Lord's word are not sufficent to bring life to anyone, despite the following words of the Lord Jesus?:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

After the Lord Jesus said those words He said the following to unbelievers like you:

"But there are some of you that believe not" (Jn.6:64).​

You don't know what living faith is and what dead faith is.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You don't know what living faith is and what dead faith is.

Do you think that remark actually answers the words of the Lord Jesus which I quoted?

 

[God's Truth]

If you think that remark actually answers the words of the Lord Jesus which I quoted?

Peter says so and so does James.

What is PAUL saying that people misunderstand? 2 Peter 3:16, and 17.

James heard about your folly. See James 2:14, 17, 20, 22, and 24.

 

[daqq]

Some of His words were only for the Jews (see Matthew 23:1-3)

Do you think I have never seen a MADist quote that?
You're a day late and a dollar short because Paul refutes you:

Matthew 23.

Do and observe what the pharisee says to do and observe. They sit in the seat of Moses. Red letters. And not what Paul preached.

You have already been exposed as a fraud in this so every time you repeat it you show yourself an intentional rejector of the truth: no wonder you have me on ignore, but it is to your own detriment and double hardened blindness. Likewise RP already referenced in his OP one of the passages that ultimately answers to what you have posted again here in this thread; but unfortunately for him, and for people such as others in this thread including yourself, he twists the words of Paul to supposedly mean "abolishing the Torah" when the passage clearly speaks of the dogmasin-dogmas of the sanhedrin, elders, and rulers of the people. You and yours have simply made up a new set of dogmasin so as to bring people back under the burdens of your own new laws, decrees, and dogmasin. The Master by Way of his Testimony has set me free from you and your Pharisee fathers and your harlot mother church of the third century with all their false interpretations and dogmas concerning the scripture and especially the Torah.

Originally Posted by Robert Pate
For those that are "In Christ" the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.

Originally Posted by Robert Pate
To be under the law is to be under condemnation and judgement. This is why Christians are not under the law nor are they subject to it. This is why Paul wrote,

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances THAT WAS AGAINST US, WHICH WAS CONTRARY TO US and took it out of the way , nailing it to his cross" Colossians 2:14.

Blahahahaha, lol, you just quoted the other passage which I spoke of, and it again proves my point in exactly what I said to Nick, which words of mine you just quoted in your own post. You are the blind leading the blind:

Colossians 2:14 W/H
14 εξαλειψας το καθ ημων χειρογραφον τοις δογμασιν ο ην υπεναντιον ημιν και αυτο ηρκεν εκ του μεσου προσηλωσας αυτο τω σταυρω

Ephesians 2:15 W/H
15 την εχθραν εν τη σαρκι αυτου τον νομον των εντολων εν δογμασιν καταργησας ινα τους δυο κτιση εν αυτω εις ενα καινον ανθρωπον ποιων ειρηνην

Your dogmasin, the dogmasin of your Pharisee fathers, and the dogmasin of your harlot mother church has all been annulled by the Testimony of the Messiah. You too are actually helping to bring others into the bondage of sin by teaching people they have no need for the Torah. I need only the Testimony of the Master to understand the holy, supernal, and spiritual Torah; but unlike you I also have the testimony of his servant Paul because Paul likewise teaches the commandments of the Master in his writings. And this I know because I understand and believe first and foremost the Testimony of the Master found in the Gospel accounts; and the words of Paul must be understood through the lenses of the Testimony of the Master.

See Matthew 5:17,18,19,20, for starters, O teacher against the Torah; for that statement is not going to pass away, and without applying the Testimony of Messiah to yourself, and to your doctrine, you are not covered under his atoning Testimony which he received from the Father above and yet paid for with his own blood.

Three birds . . . one Stone.

And no doubt you have no clue what has just been said in those quotes . . .

 

[jamie]

God gives us our spirit, and it does NOT die.

From where does God acquire a human spirit?

Who is the maker?

 

[marhig]

You are so lost and I cannot figure out why you fight so hard to deny that the language in regard to the Lord Jesus' "blood" is in regard to His death upon the Cross:

"And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven" (Col.1:20).​

"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied" (1 Pet.1:3).​

Still jerry, you are looking at things naturally.

When Jesus said, deny yourself take up your cross and follow me, did he mean a natural cross? Are we to deny ourselves and then be crucified?

 

[God's Truth]

From where does God acquire a human spirit?

Who is the maker?

Our spirits are from God.

Our flesh dies and our spirit lives on.

 

[jamie]

Our spirits are from God.

Our flesh dies and our spirit lives on.

Yes, God created our spirit as well as the spirit of animals.

The Father preserves our spirit so it can be placed in a new body at our resurrection.

Our spirit plus our brain is our psyche, our mind.