Eternal suffering is not Literal

way 2 go

Well-known member
I showed one of the teachings about the place of eternal suffering= The place where the worm( maggot) dieth not--No worm or maggot could survive 1 hour in a hot firey place, proving it is symbolism,
so have cut off your hands and gouged out your eyes ?

since you can't tell figurative language
don't cut off your hands or gouge out your eyes kjw47 it's figurative language

Mark 9:43 And if your hand offends you, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed than to have two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched
Mark 9:44 where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched.

I guess you think Jesus is a door :rolleyes:
John 10:9 I am the door. If anyone enters in by Me, he shall be saved and shall go in and out and find pasture.


this is not figurative language
Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.

Gods justice scales prove 100% it is symbolism.
we know your wrong because if you were right Jesus would not have had to die ,
your claim is sinners being able to atone for their own sin
The worm lives 6 feet under.
water is wet
The story about Lazarus there proves symbolism. If one could look down and see their loved ones suffering constantly-no happiness would be in them.
Hades( Greek) = the Hebrew word-Sheol, both translate the grave.
so you determine what is true by " if it makes you happy " it's true

so Jesus lied when he spoke of Lazarus because it doesn't make you happy.
Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.
 

JudgeRightly

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Yeah you said a truth--Yes during the trib the remaining part of the little flock get changed in the twinkling of an eye and go to heaven to rule as kings and priests alongside Jesus on thrones=The bride of Christ.

Not even close.

The great crowd remain on earth( Prov 2:21-22, Matt 24:22)

Not what Proverbs was talking about.

and are brought through Harmageddon,

What's "Harmageddon"? Some sort of band name?

its these that will not taste death.

Nope.

The true God set before all-LIFE or DEATH-Deut 30:19---

Yes. And?

All rejecting Gods will, will be destroyed forever in the lake of fire.

Which, again, doesn't mean that they will cease to exist. Is all you have your plain repetitious nonsense?
 

kjw47

Member
Banned
so have cut off your hands and gouged out your eyes ?

since you can't tell figurative language
don't cut off your hands or gouge out your eyes kjw47 it's figurative language

Mark 9:43 And if your hand offends you, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed than to have two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched
Mark 9:44 where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched.

I guess you think Jesus is a door :rolleyes:
John 10:9 I am the door. If anyone enters in by Me, he shall be saved and shall go in and out and find pasture.


this is not figurative language
Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.


we know your wrong because if you were right Jesus would not have had to die ,
your claim is sinners being able to atone for their own sin

water is wet

so you determine what is true by " if it makes you happy " it's true

so Jesus lied when he spoke of Lazarus because it doesn't make you happy.
Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.

Its eternal suffering thats figurative. You have it backwards. Let me introduce you to the true God=Deut 32:4--ALL his ways are justice. He taught all perfect justice= An eye for an eye--His scales are uncorruptable. So for 70-100 years of unrepented sinful life he could not condemn one to trillions x trillions x trillions of years of eternal suffering. There is no justice in that scenario. The reality of it = Deut 30:19-He set before all-LIFE or DEATH both are eternal. Only the blind guides that do not know God teach a literal eternal suffering.
 

kjw47

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Banned
Not even close.



Not what Proverbs was talking about.



What's "Harmageddon"? Some sort of band name?



Nope.



Yes. And?



Which, again, doesn't mean that they will cease to exist. Is all you have your plain repetitious nonsense?

Keep listening to your blind guides, you will fail this 100%-John 4:22-24
 

JudgeRightly

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Its eternal suffering thats figurative.

False.

You have it backwards.

Wrong.

Let me introduce you to the true God=

We know the true God. You don't.

Deut 32:4--ALL his ways are justice.

Yup. What is God supposed to do, without being unjust, to those who reject Him and refuse to live with Him?

He taught all perfect justice= An eye for an eye--

Jesus called that commandment "MY commandment." Not "My Father's commandment."

His scales are uncorruptable.

Indeed.

So for 70-100 years of unrepented sinful life he could not condemn one to trillions x trillions x trillions of years of eternal suffering.

Eternity is a lot, lot longer than that, sir.

Again, what does God do with those who refuse to live with Him for eternity? You refuse to answer this question. Why?

There is no justice in that scenario.

Because you have the wrong scenario.

The reality of it = Deut 30:19-He set before all-LIFE or DEATH both are eternal.

Well, no, Deuteronomy 30:19 is God talking to Israel, not the world.

But yes, God does, upon the presentation of the gospel to someone, set before them life and death, that they should choose between them.

Only the blind guides that do not know God

The blind one here is you.

teach a literal eternal suffering.

You still haven't answered my question from before about why you think eternal suffering is not literal, but that eternal life is, when both are referred to in the exact same verse.

Keep listening to your blind guides,

Says the one who's been brainwashed...

you will fail this 100%-John 4:22-24

False. And I agree with Jesus, specifically these words of His:


Thus Saith the Lord: If we count how many times the Old Testament prophets said, "Thus says the Lord" we find them using that phrase, in the New King James Version of the Bible, about 420 times. The New Testament on the other hand, never once records that phrase. Jesus Christ, with all the red ink devoted to recording His words, never once used that ubiquitous phrase, "Thus saith the Lord." Rather, Jesus proclaims, "I say to you," in the Gospels! Not a single "Thus says the Lord," but rather, "I say to you," 135 times. The following chart demonstrates biblically that these two phrases, Thus saith the Lord, and I say unto you, indicate the same thing, that God is speaking. For Jesus Christ made it clear that He Himself was at the heart of His message. Unlike the righteous priests and kings, prophets and the apostles, the Lord came to teach us about Himself:

Christ's Self-focus:

  • "Follow Me" 19x Mt. 4:19; 8:22; 10:38; 16:24; 19:21; Mk. 1:17; 2:14; 8:34; 10:21; Lk. 5:27; 9:59; 18:22; Jn. 1:43; 8:12; 10:27; 12:26; 13:36; 21:19, 22
  • Pray and act "in My name" 18x Mt. 7:22; 18:5; 18:20; [24:5]; Mk. 9:37, 39, 41; [13:6]; Lk. 9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; Jn. 14:13-14; 15:16; 16:23-24, 26; Acts 9:15
  • "the Holy Spirit" comes "in My name" Jn. 14:26
  • "for My name's sake" leave family and property Mt. 19:29; or even be killed 5x Mt. 24:9; [Lk. 21:12, 17;] Jn. 15:21; Acts 9:16
  • Believe in the "name of the… Son" and "in the Son" 3x Jn. 3:18, 36; 9:35 and "in Him [Jesus]" 4x Jn. 3:18; 6:29, 40; 8:31
  • "believe in Me" 14x Mt. 18:6; Mk. 9:42; Jn. 3:15-16, 18; 6:35, 47; 7:38; 11:25, 26; 12:44, 46; 14:1, 12; 16:8; 17:20
  • You "are sanctified by faith in Me" Acts 26:18
  • Live "in Me" Jn. 11:26
  • "come after Me" Mk. 8:34; Lk. 14:27
  • Abide "in Me" Jn. 15:2, 4:5, 7 "abide in Me" or else Jn. 15:6 "abide in My love" Jn. 15:9-10
  • "where two or three are gathered" Jesus is "there in the midst of them" Mt. 18:20
  • So too: "I [Jesus, will abide] in you" Jn. 15:4-5
  • "know that I am He" Jn. 8:28 or "if you do not believe that I am He you will die in your sins" Jn. 8:24
  • Do things "for My sake" Mt. 10:22, 39; even lose your life "for My sake" 4x Mt. 16:25; Mk. 8:35; 10:29; Lk. 6:22
  • "I never knew you, depart from Me" Mt. 7:23
  • "I am willing; be cleansed" Mt. 8:3; Mk.. 1:41
  • "confess Me" Mt. 10:32; Lk. 12:8
  • Do not deny "Me" 7x Mt. 10:33; 26:34; Mk. 14:30, 72; Lk. 12:9; 22:34; Jn. 13:38
  • Do not be "ashamed of Me" Mk. 8:38; Lk. 9:26 nor "My words"
  • "love Me" 5x Jn. 14:15, 21, 23-24, 28
  • Do not reject "Me" Lk. 10:16; Jn. 12:48
  • "He who is not with Me is against Me" Lk. 11:23
  • Love Me "more than" your family members Mt. 10:37; [Lk. 14:26]
  • "I… have loved you" Jn. 15:9, 12
  • Be "worthy of Me" Mt. 10:37-38
  • "Come to Me" 5x Mt. 11:28; Lk. 6:47; Jn. 5:40; 6:35; 7:37
  • "I will give you rest" Mt. 11:28
  • "For My yoke is easy and My burden is light" Mt. 11:30
  • I am "greater than the temple" "than Jonah" "than Solomon" Mt. 12:6, 41-42
  • I am "Lord even of the Sabbath" Mt. 12:8; Mk. 2:28; Lk. 6:5 [Lord of God's Ten Commandments]
  • Thus He says keep "My commandments" 4x Jn. 14:15, 21; 15:10, 12
  • "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you" Jn. 15:14
  • "keep My word" Jn. 14:23-24
  • "He who is not with Me is against Me" Mt. 12:30
  • The angels are "His angels" Mt. 13:41; 16:27 and He commands "His angels" Mt. 24:31; Mk. 13:27
  • The kingdom is "His kingdom" Mt. 13:41 and He calls it "My kingdom" Lk. 22:30
  • Jesus called it "My church" Mt. 16:18 and believers are "My sheep" Jn. 10:14, 27 and they are "His elect" Mt. 24:31; Mk. 13:27
  • Paul is a "vessel of Mine to bear My name" Acts 9:15
  • "all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine" Jn. 17:10
  • "My peace I give" Jn. 14:27 "in Me you may have peace" Jn. 16:33
  • "My joy" should fill you Jn. 15:11
  • "Who do men say that I am?" Mt. 16:13; Mk. 8:27 "who do you say that I am?" Mt. 16:15
  • Receive "Me" Mt. 18:5; Mk. 9:37; Lk. 9:48
  • Heaven and earth will pass away but "My words" will never Mt. [5:18] 24:35; Mk. 13:31; Lk. 21:33
  • Tell others about Jesus Mk. 5:19
  • "you belong to Christ" Mk. 9:41
  • Hear "My sayings" and do them Lk. 6:47
  • Jesus has "His own glory" Lk. 9:26; [Jn. 2:11; 16:14] The Son is "glorified" 8x Jn. 11:4; 12:23; 13:31-32; [17:1, 5, 10 24]
  • "He who hears you hears Me" Lk. 10:16
  • Jesus expects praise, from stones if necessary Lk. 19:37-40
  • Return "to Me" Lk. 22:32
  • Be "My disciple" Lk. 14:27; Jn. 8:31; 15:8 Forsake all to "be My disciple" Lk. 14:33 "you are My disciples" Jn. 13:35
  • "I shall send… the [Holy] Spirit" Jn. 15:26; 16:7
  • The Holy Spirit "will testify of Me" Jn. 15:26
  • We read in John 5 and Luke 24 that "the Scriptures… testify of Me" Jn. 5:39; [Lk. 24:44]
  • "You [Apostles] also will bear witness [of Me] because you have been with Me" Jn. 15:27
  • Paul gives "testimony concerning Me" Acts 22:18; 23:11
  • "the Son gives life to whom He will" Jn. 5:21
  • "seek Me" Jn. 6:26
  • Serve "Me" Jn. 12:26
  • "all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father" Jn. 5:23
  • "I am the bread of life," "of heaven," "of God" Jn. 6: 32-33, 35, 41, [48,] 51
  • Just seeing Christ is reason enough to believe in Him Jn. 6:36 [56]
  • Drink "My blood" and eat "My flesh" Jn. 6:53-54, 56
  • "I will raise him up at the last day" Jn. 6:40 for He is the resurrection
  • "The world… hates Me" Jn. 7:7
  • "I am the light of the world" Jn. 8:12; 9:5; 12:46
  • "I bear witness of Myself" Jn. 8:13-14, 18
  • "know… Jesus Christ" for "eternal life" Jn. 17:3; [8:19; 10:10, 14]
  • "the Son makes you free" Jn. 8:36
  • "Abraham rejoiced to see My day" Jn. 8:56; "Before Abraham was, I AM" Jn. 8:58
  • Of believers, Christ said, "I know them" Jn. 10:27
  • "I give them eternal life" Jn. 10:28
  • "I am the resurrection and the life" Jn. 11:25
  • I "will draw all peoples to Myself" Jn. 12:32
  • "I will… receive you to Myself" Jn. 14:3
  • Be "Mine" Jn. 14:24
  • "I am the vine" Jn. 15:5
  • "without Me you can do nothing" Jn. 15:5
  • "Because I live, you will live also." Jn. 14:19
  • "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you" Jn. 15:16
  • Those who oppress Christians are "persecuting Me" Acts 9:4-5; 22:7-8; 26:14-15
  • "because they have not known… Me" Jn. 16:3
  • The Spirit "will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it" Jn. 16:14
  • "All things that the Father has are Mine" Jn. 16:15
  • "Whatever He [the Father] does, the Son does" Jn. 5:19
  • "the Father… loves you, because you have loved Me" Jn. 16:27
  • "If I will that he remain" Jn. 21:22
  • "I have overcome the world" Jn. 16:33
  • "I am the way" Jn. 14:6
  • "I am… the truth" Jn. 14:6
  • "I am… the life" Jn. 14:6
  • "I will… manifest Myself" Jn. 14:21

Scores of times Jesus uses the personal pronoun My with words like commandments, sake, words, lambs, sheep, peace, love, joy, voice, name, sayings, kingdom, angels, and church. Three examples powerfully illustrate the point. First, "Abraham rejoiced to see My day..." Secondly, "I know My sheep, and am known by My own." And thirdly, "Assuredly, I say to you... Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away." The prophets and John were the messengers; Jesus is the Message, the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and put Himself at the center of His message, because He is God.


 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Its eternal suffering thats figurative. You have it backwards. Let me introduce you to the true God=Deut 32:4--ALL his ways are justice.
yes justice
He taught all perfect justice= An eye for an eye--His scales are uncorruptable. So for 70-100 years of unrepented sinful life he could not condemn one to trillions x trillions x trillions of years of eternal suffering. There is no justice in that scenario.
your dead , you must choose life by faith in Jesus as God

or you will continue to exist in this age and in the next as dead but existing
not possible to come to faith after physical death as you will know how wrong you are
as you will be paying for your sin for eternity

Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.

The reality of it = Deut 30:19-He set before all-LIFE or DEATH both are eternal.
yes , eternal life or eternal punishment

Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.

Only the blind guides that do not know God teach a literal eternal suffering.
blind guides like you teach no punishment
notice you have no duration ,where we have the bible saying eternal punishment

Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.

Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Rev 14:10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
 

kjw47

Member
Banned
False.



Wrong.



We know the true God. You don't.



Yup. What is God supposed to do, without being unjust, to those who reject Him and refuse to live with Him?



Jesus called that commandment "MY commandment." Not "My Father's commandment."



Indeed.



Eternity is a lot, lot longer than that, sir.

Again, what does God do with those who refuse to live with Him for eternity? You refuse to answer this question. Why?



Because you have the wrong scenario.



Well, no, Deuteronomy 30:19 is God talking to Israel, not the world.

But yes, God does, upon the presentation of the gospel to someone, set before them life and death, that they should choose between them.



The blind one here is you.



You still haven't answered my question from before about why you think eternal suffering is not literal, but that eternal life is, when both are referred to in the exact same verse.



Says the one who's been brainwashed...



False. And I agree with Jesus, specifically these words of His:


Thus Saith the Lord: If we count how many times the Old Testament prophets said, "Thus says the Lord" we find them using that phrase, in the New King James Version of the Bible, about 420 times. The New Testament on the other hand, never once records that phrase. Jesus Christ, with all the red ink devoted to recording His words, never once used that ubiquitous phrase, "Thus saith the Lord." Rather, Jesus proclaims, "I say to you," in the Gospels! Not a single "Thus says the Lord," but rather, "I say to you," 135 times. The following chart demonstrates biblically that these two phrases, Thus saith the Lord, and I say unto you, indicate the same thing, that God is speaking. For Jesus Christ made it clear that He Himself was at the heart of His message. Unlike the righteous priests and kings, prophets and the apostles, the Lord came to teach us about Himself:

Christ's Self-focus:

  • "Follow Me" 19x Mt. 4:19; 8:22; 10:38; 16:24; 19:21; Mk. 1:17; 2:14; 8:34; 10:21; Lk. 5:27; 9:59; 18:22; Jn. 1:43; 8:12; 10:27; 12:26; 13:36; 21:19, 22
  • Pray and act "in My name" 18x Mt. 7:22; 18:5; 18:20; [24:5]; Mk. 9:37, 39, 41; [13:6]; Lk. 9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; Jn. 14:13-14; 15:16; 16:23-24, 26; Acts 9:15
  • "the Holy Spirit" comes "in My name" Jn. 14:26
  • "for My name's sake" leave family and property Mt. 19:29; or even be killed 5x Mt. 24:9; [Lk. 21:12, 17;] Jn. 15:21; Acts 9:16
  • Believe in the "name of the… Son" and "in the Son" 3x Jn. 3:18, 36; 9:35 and "in Him [Jesus]" 4x Jn. 3:18; 6:29, 40; 8:31
  • "believe in Me" 14x Mt. 18:6; Mk. 9:42; Jn. 3:15-16, 18; 6:35, 47; 7:38; 11:25, 26; 12:44, 46; 14:1, 12; 16:8; 17:20
  • You "are sanctified by faith in Me" Acts 26:18
  • Live "in Me" Jn. 11:26
  • "come after Me" Mk. 8:34; Lk. 14:27
  • Abide "in Me" Jn. 15:2, 4:5, 7 "abide in Me" or else Jn. 15:6 "abide in My love" Jn. 15:9-10
  • "where two or three are gathered" Jesus is "there in the midst of them" Mt. 18:20
  • So too: "I [Jesus, will abide] in you" Jn. 15:4-5
  • "know that I am He" Jn. 8:28 or "if you do not believe that I am He you will die in your sins" Jn. 8:24
  • Do things "for My sake" Mt. 10:22, 39; even lose your life "for My sake" 4x Mt. 16:25; Mk. 8:35; 10:29; Lk. 6:22
  • "I never knew you, depart from Me" Mt. 7:23
  • "I am willing; be cleansed" Mt. 8:3; Mk.. 1:41
  • "confess Me" Mt. 10:32; Lk. 12:8
  • Do not deny "Me" 7x Mt. 10:33; 26:34; Mk. 14:30, 72; Lk. 12:9; 22:34; Jn. 13:38
  • Do not be "ashamed of Me" Mk. 8:38; Lk. 9:26 nor "My words"
  • "love Me" 5x Jn. 14:15, 21, 23-24, 28
  • Do not reject "Me" Lk. 10:16; Jn. 12:48
  • "He who is not with Me is against Me" Lk. 11:23
  • Love Me "more than" your family members Mt. 10:37; [Lk. 14:26]
  • "I… have loved you" Jn. 15:9, 12
  • Be "worthy of Me" Mt. 10:37-38
  • "Come to Me" 5x Mt. 11:28; Lk. 6:47; Jn. 5:40; 6:35; 7:37
  • "I will give you rest" Mt. 11:28
  • "For My yoke is easy and My burden is light" Mt. 11:30
  • I am "greater than the temple" "than Jonah" "than Solomon" Mt. 12:6, 41-42
  • I am "Lord even of the Sabbath" Mt. 12:8; Mk. 2:28; Lk. 6:5 [Lord of God's Ten Commandments]
  • Thus He says keep "My commandments" 4x Jn. 14:15, 21; 15:10, 12
  • "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you" Jn. 15:14
  • "keep My word" Jn. 14:23-24
  • "He who is not with Me is against Me" Mt. 12:30
  • The angels are "His angels" Mt. 13:41; 16:27 and He commands "His angels" Mt. 24:31; Mk. 13:27
  • The kingdom is "His kingdom" Mt. 13:41 and He calls it "My kingdom" Lk. 22:30
  • Jesus called it "My church" Mt. 16:18 and believers are "My sheep" Jn. 10:14, 27 and they are "His elect" Mt. 24:31; Mk. 13:27
  • Paul is a "vessel of Mine to bear My name" Acts 9:15
  • "all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine" Jn. 17:10
  • "My peace I give" Jn. 14:27 "in Me you may have peace" Jn. 16:33
  • "My joy" should fill you Jn. 15:11
  • "Who do men say that I am?" Mt. 16:13; Mk. 8:27 "who do you say that I am?" Mt. 16:15
  • Receive "Me" Mt. 18:5; Mk. 9:37; Lk. 9:48
  • Heaven and earth will pass away but "My words" will never Mt. [5:18] 24:35; Mk. 13:31; Lk. 21:33
  • Tell others about Jesus Mk. 5:19
  • "you belong to Christ" Mk. 9:41
  • Hear "My sayings" and do them Lk. 6:47
  • Jesus has "His own glory" Lk. 9:26; [Jn. 2:11; 16:14] The Son is "glorified" 8x Jn. 11:4; 12:23; 13:31-32; [17:1, 5, 10 24]
  • "He who hears you hears Me" Lk. 10:16
  • Jesus expects praise, from stones if necessary Lk. 19:37-40
  • Return "to Me" Lk. 22:32
  • Be "My disciple" Lk. 14:27; Jn. 8:31; 15:8 Forsake all to "be My disciple" Lk. 14:33 "you are My disciples" Jn. 13:35
  • "I shall send… the [Holy] Spirit" Jn. 15:26; 16:7
  • The Holy Spirit "will testify of Me" Jn. 15:26
  • We read in John 5 and Luke 24 that "the Scriptures… testify of Me" Jn. 5:39; [Lk. 24:44]
  • "You [Apostles] also will bear witness [of Me] because you have been with Me" Jn. 15:27
  • Paul gives "testimony concerning Me" Acts 22:18; 23:11
  • "the Son gives life to whom He will" Jn. 5:21
  • "seek Me" Jn. 6:26
  • Serve "Me" Jn. 12:26
  • "all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father" Jn. 5:23
  • "I am the bread of life," "of heaven," "of God" Jn. 6: 32-33, 35, 41, [48,] 51
  • Just seeing Christ is reason enough to believe in Him Jn. 6:36 [56]
  • Drink "My blood" and eat "My flesh" Jn. 6:53-54, 56
  • "I will raise him up at the last day" Jn. 6:40 for He is the resurrection
  • "The world… hates Me" Jn. 7:7
  • "I am the light of the world" Jn. 8:12; 9:5; 12:46
  • "I bear witness of Myself" Jn. 8:13-14, 18
  • "know… Jesus Christ" for "eternal life" Jn. 17:3; [8:19; 10:10, 14]
  • "the Son makes you free" Jn. 8:36
  • "Abraham rejoiced to see My day" Jn. 8:56; "Before Abraham was, I AM" Jn. 8:58
  • Of believers, Christ said, "I know them" Jn. 10:27
  • "I give them eternal life" Jn. 10:28
  • "I am the resurrection and the life" Jn. 11:25
  • I "will draw all peoples to Myself" Jn. 12:32
  • "I will… receive you to Myself" Jn. 14:3
  • Be "Mine" Jn. 14:24
  • "I am the vine" Jn. 15:5
  • "without Me you can do nothing" Jn. 15:5
  • "Because I live, you will live also." Jn. 14:19
  • "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you" Jn. 15:16
  • Those who oppress Christians are "persecuting Me" Acts 9:4-5; 22:7-8; 26:14-15
  • "because they have not known… Me" Jn. 16:3
  • The Spirit "will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it" Jn. 16:14
  • "All things that the Father has are Mine" Jn. 16:15
  • "Whatever He [the Father] does, the Son does" Jn. 5:19
  • "the Father… loves you, because you have loved Me" Jn. 16:27
  • "If I will that he remain" Jn. 21:22
  • "I have overcome the world" Jn. 16:33
  • "I am the way" Jn. 14:6
  • "I am… the truth" Jn. 14:6
  • "I am… the life" Jn. 14:6
  • "I will… manifest Myself" Jn. 14:21

Scores of times Jesus uses the personal pronoun My with words like commandments, sake, words, lambs, sheep, peace, love, joy, voice, name, sayings, kingdom, angels, and church. Three examples powerfully illustrate the point. First, "Abraham rejoiced to see My day..." Secondly, "I know My sheep, and am known by My own." And thirdly, "Assuredly, I say to you... Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away." The prophets and John were the messengers; Jesus is the Message, the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and put Himself at the center of His message, because He is God.



You keep putting your garbage like i am wrong, but i proved my words using Gods word. Something you cannot do. The bible does not teach 2 different truths.
 

kjw47

Member
Banned
yes justice

your dead , you must choose life by faith in Jesus as God

or you will continue to exist in this age and in the next as dead but existing
not possible to come to faith after physical death as you will know how wrong you are
as you will be paying for your sin for eternity

Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.


yes , eternal life or eternal punishment

Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.


blind guides like you teach no punishment
notice you have no duration ,where we have the bible saying eternal punishment

Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.

Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Rev 14:10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

Its symbolism in the NT. Your God would be a sadist to actually create an eternal suffering. The true living God=Love, mercy and forgiveness, not sadism.
 

JudgeRightly

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You keep putting your garbage like i am wrong,

Calling Jesus' words garbage now? Yeah, you've worn out your welcome at this point. Good bye.

but i proved my words using Gods word.

No, you didn't. You merely made an assertion that has been addressed multiple times, and all you have in response is to repeat your claims as if it makes a difference.

Something you cannot do.

False

The bible does not teach 2 different truths.

It teaches many truths. None of them are contradictory. Your claims contradict what the Bible says. That make YOU wrong, it doesn't make Jesus' words "garbage."

Its symbolism in the NT.

Symbolism is often used to describe literal things.

Your God would be a sadist to actually create an eternal suffering.

He didn't "create an eternal suffering."

He has to put those who reject Him and don't want to live with him for eternity somewhere. We just happen to call that place Hell/the Lake of Fire.

The true living God=Love, mercy and forgiveness, not sadism.

We agree. It's not loving or merciful to force people who reject Him to live with Him, and He cannot forgive those who do not repent.

God isn't a sadist.

You need to repent, and humble yourself before God, and ask Him to forgive you of your sins, and stop rebelling against Christ, who is God.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Its symbolism in the NT.
no
Rev 14:10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
Your God would be a sadist to actually create an eternal suffering. The true living God=Love, mercy and forgiveness, not sadism.
confession through projection
 

James27

New member
Ok you serve your non existent sadist i will serve YHWH(Jehovah) the God of love, mercy and forgiveness-The one who set this before all mankind-Life or death-Deut 30:19--His word teaches. His word goes forth and does not come back undone. There is no life in death. Nor knowledge, or wisdom or anything.
Here is an NT teaching about the place of eternal suffering proving it is symbolism--It says its a place where the worm dieth not---No worm could live an hour in a hot firey place, It does however live 6 feet under.
Bro Im pretty sure that I lost my salvation and even I know it’s eternal , don’t be dec
 

James27

New member
Denying reality isn't healthy, Arty.



Yes, that's the point.

Those who reject God by the point of their death choose, willingly, to live eternity separate from Him.



It's not a condition they don't want to be in.

Thus, it's not force.



False.
False, He will give people a reprobate heart even before death and people will want to recover from it and he says those who deny me will know the coming wrath but if you have a reprobate heart there is no way to repent without the Holy spirit
 

James27

New member
Saying it doesn't make it so.



Are you a calvinist?
I don’t even know if I am but I’m just referring to people who have lost the Holy Spirit due to unrepentant sin and there are people that have shared stories about this. these are the scriptures that quote it Hebrew 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, Hebrew 6:6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

I can also link several people telling their stories who have lost their salvation
 

Jefferson

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I don’t even know if I am but I’m just referring to people who have lost the Holy Spirit due to unrepentant sin and there are people that have shared stories about this. these are the scriptures that quote it Hebrew 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, Hebrew 6:6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

I can also link several people telling their stories who have lost their salvation
You are basing your belief you lost your salvation on the book of Hebrews. You are not a 1st century Hebrew. You are a member of the body of Christ. The book of Hebrews was not written to you. Only Paul's epistles were written to you. You are stressing out over verses in Hebrews that don't even apply to this dispensation. Why do you torture yourself like that?
 

JudgeRightly

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I don’t even know if I am

Then you're probably not a calvinist.

Which is good.

but I’m just referring to people who have lost the Holy Spirit

No one can lose the Holy Spirit in this current dispensation (grace), because being saved is not based on anything a man can or does or will do.

Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s. - 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians6:19-20&version=NKJV

Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit, for it is God who saves, not man who earns his salvation.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His gracewhich He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. - Ephesians 1:3-14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians1:3-14&version=NKJV

due to unrepentant sin

Christians can and do sin (despite what the user Hoping might tell you). We still inhabit bodies of flesh, and the flesh drags us down, enticing us to sin.

But even if we do sin, it is not credited to our accounts, because Christ has paid the balance.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.For he who has died has been freed from sin.Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. - Romans 6:1-14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans6:1-14&version=NKJV

and there are people that have shared stories about this.

I can't speak for their hearts, only God can know for certain, but if they confessed Christ, and believed in Him for salvation, then it's likely that they're saved, despite not focusing on God.

these are the scriptures that quote it Hebrew 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, Hebrew 6:6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

As mentioned above, why are you reading someone else's mail as if it were addressed to you?

Open your Bible (assuming you have a physical copy), and open to Hebrews 1. What does it say at the top of the page, where the title of the book is?

If yours is like mine, it says "The Epistle to the Hebrews".

Are you a Hebrew? If not, then this book was NOT written to you. It was written to believers of a different dispensation, the dispensation of the New Covenant, which was made EXCLUSIVELY between God and Israel.

“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— - Jeremiah 31:31 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah31:31&version=NKJV

For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. - Matthew 26:28 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew26:28&version=NKJV

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah — - Hebrews 8:7-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews8:7-8&version=NKJV

In that He says, “ A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. - Hebrews 8:13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews8:13&version=NKJV

But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh,how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you.”Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry.And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission. - Hebrews 9:11-22 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews9:11-22&version=NKJV

I can also link several people telling their stories who have lost their salvation

I'm sure there are many who have been turned away from God, but that's not because they lost their salvation. It's because of doctrinal error.
 

Clete

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Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His gracewhich He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. - Ephesians 1:3-14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians1:3-14&version=NKJ
You did a terrific job on this but I wanted to expand on the above quoted passage.

Notice the last sentence (verses 13-14)....

Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the GUARANTEE of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.​

There are two other passages that use the same terminology...
2 Corinthians 1:21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a GUARANTEE.​
2 Corinthians 5:5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a GUARANTEE.​
Now this guarantee Paul speaks of cannot be overstated. It is the Spirit of God Himself that has been given to us as a backstop against the failure of our salvation. The word used in Greek is arrhabṓn and it means "earnest" and the King James Bible actually translates the word as "earnest". If you've ever bought a house before, you know what an earnest payment is and you also know that once you've paid your earnest money, if you then fail to go through with the purchase, you forfeit the earnest payment. This is done because the process of selling a house is quite expensive and time consuming and the earnest payment forces you to have a substantial stake in the success of the process. Likewise, God is fully invested in those who have put their faith in Jesus Christ. We have been hidden in Him. For we died, and our life is hidden with Christ in God (Col. 3:3). We have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer we who live, but Christ lives in us; and the life which we now live in the flesh we live by faith in the Son of God (literally: "the faith OF the Son of God"), who loved us and gave Himself for us (Gal. 2:20). Can God deny Himself? Certainly not!

2 Timothy 2: 13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.​

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith OF Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith OF Christ,... (See also Gal. 2:20 & 3:22; Romans 3:22, 26; and Philippians 3:9) (KJV)​
Clete
 
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