Eternal Security

[JAGG]

JAGG Writes:

Later called Christians and the saved and true believers etc.​

Right Divider Replies:

You're preaching Churchianity and not Biblical Christianity.

That's not an argument. That is a claim and has the weight of being
your opinion. Anyone can make a claim like that. I believe you are
incorrect in your eschatology, but I would never say you are
"preaching Churchianity" just because I believe you are incorrect
about your interpretation of the Biblical texts treating of Christian
Eschatology.

Also, to say:

"You're preaching Churchianity and not Biblical Christianity"
is discrediting the person, and not discrediting the person's argument.

My view is that we both are sincere in what we believe and neither of us
is "preaching" anything. If what we are doing here is "preaching" then
we both are "preaching" --- preaching our views.​

 

[JAGG]

Ezekiel 34 is yet future since Israel rejected the one shepherd.

If you do not understand that Ezekiel 34 about Christ as the one shepherd, I cannot help you.

That is nothing more than your claim. That is not evidence. You saying that to me, is exactly like me saying
this to you:

Ezekiel 34 is NOT future since Israel rejected the one shepherd.​

If you do not understand that Ezekiel 34 is NOT about Christ as the one shepherd, I cannot help you.

___________


I am open to evidence, but making claims and proclamations is not presenting evidence.

I need solid evidence demonstrating that Ezekiel 34 is yet future. ​

 

[Right Divider]

That's not an argument. That is a claim and has the weight of being
your opinion.

We are free to make claims based on opinions here on TOL.

Anyone can make a claim like that. I believe you are
incorrect in your eschatology, but I would never say you are
"preaching Churchianity" just because I believe you are incorrect
about your interpretation of the Biblical texts treating of Christian
Eschatology.

Ahhh... a claim based on your opinion.

Also, to say:

"You're preaching Churchianity and not Biblical Christianity"
is discrediting the person, and not discrediting the person's argument.
​

Again, I was not trying to "prove" you wrong. I was giving my opinion of your doctrine.​

 

[Right Divider]

That is nothing more than your claim. That is not evidence. You saying that to me, is exactly like me saying
this to you:

Ezekiel 34 is NOT future since Israel rejected the one shepherd.

If you do not understand that Ezekiel 34 is NOT about Christ as the one shepherd, I cannot help you.

Again, I believe that the text is very clear. I will not attempt to "prove" it to you.

___________

I am open to evidence, but making claims and proclamations is not presenting evidence.

I need solid evidence demonstrating that Ezekiel 34 is yet future.

If you don't think that Ezekiel 34 is yet future, perhaps you could describe how and when it happened.

 

[JAGG]

I will not attempt to "prove" it to you.

Right Divider, thanks for the chat. I appreciate the time
you spent responding to my posts.

Take care and God bless.

 

[lokitor]

I believe that as long as the soul is in the hand of Christ, it is safe and in no danger. The soul loses its safety when it begins to sin and no longer wants to be in the hand of God. That is my view of this doctrine. The older I get, the more I understand the teachings described in the Bible. That proves that one must have at least a high school diploma to be experienced enough to understand the words in a holy book as the author intended. The more we read and develop, the more we find new and true things in God's writings. Peace and goodness to all!

 

[musterion]

Without unconditional eternal security in Christ, Father and Son would spend eternity in heaven alone. There's not one human who could earn their way in without sin.

 

[DancesWithGnostics]

1Co 9:7

Paul wrote that a feeder of the flock is entitled to partake of the milk of the flock

Paul was Apostle to the Gentiles

This concept that only Israelites are referred to as SHEEP is sheer nonsense

 

[musterion]

Colossians 2 : 13

Paul said the saved are forgiven all trespasses.

Romans 3 : 24

Paul said the saved are justified.

Do you agree with him?

 

[Hoping]

I believe that as long as the soul is in the hand of Christ, it is safe and in no danger.

Do you think that liars, adulterers, and thieves are "in His hands"?

 

[Hoping]

Without unconditional eternal security in Christ, Father and Son would spend eternity in heaven alone. There's not one human who could earn their way in without sin.

We don't have to earn it, as God gave us everything we need to do His will.

 

[Hoping]

1Co 9:7

Paul wrote that a feeder of the flock is entitled to partake of the milk of the flock

Paul was Apostle to the Gentiles

This concept that only Israelites are referred to as SHEEP is sheer nonsense

"sheer".
That's funny !

 

[DancesWithGnostics]

Sheered sheep or sheep with full fleeces - it does not matter

Both can be Jews or Gentile believers, members of the flock

 

[Hoping]

Sheered sheep or sheep with full fleeces - it does not matter

Both can be Jews or Gentile believers, members of the flock

Yep.
It just means "follower".
We know both Jew and Gentile "follow" the Lord.

 

[musterion]

We don't have to earn it, as God gave us everything we need to do His will.

But you do have to earn it BY "doing His will," correct?

Because you'll lose heaven if you don't, correct?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Do you think that liars, adulterers, and thieves are "in His hands"?

If they have at some point put their faith in God, and believed He has raised Christ from the dead, then yes.

But they aren't identified as such any more. They are identified with Christ.

 

[Hoping]

But you do have to earn it BY "doing His will," correct?

Because you'll lose heaven if you don't, correct?

How can you earn something already in your possession?
On the other hand, if my name is still in the book of life on the day of judgement, it will be because I did His will and not mine during my life on earth.
Those not doing His will are not His.

I became a Christian because I wanted to live without hurting myself and those I loved anymore.
Repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins made me a cleansed, ex-sinner.
Perfect.
And the Lord provides me with all I need to remain that way.
Nothing is more important to me that pleasing Him who died for me.
Don't you feel the same way?

 

[Hoping]

If they have at some point put their faith in God, and believed He has raised Christ from the dead, then yes.

But they aren't identified as such any more. They are identified with Christ.

The lies, thefts, and adultery show they have yet to put their faith in God.
He said He would provide an escape from every temptation, in 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
Those without faith don't seek, or take, the "escapes".

If men want a religion that accommodates sinning, let them try Judaism.
It has atonements every year for the haters of God.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The lies, thefts, and adultery show they have yet to put their faith in God.

Because you say so?

He said He would provide an escape from every temptation, in 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
Those without faith don't seek, or take, the "escapes".

None of which means that every Christian will live sinlessly.

 

[JudgeRightly]

On the other hand, if my name is still in the book of life on the day of judgement, it will be because I did His will and not mine during my life on earth.

No, it's not because of your own efforts.

Your name will be there (assuming you really are a Christian) because God has sealed you with His Holy Spirit, not because you kept his will.

Do you not see how arrogant you make yourself? Claiming to "stay in the book of life due to my (Hoping's) own efforts"?

Shame on you. You need to repent of your pride.

Those not doing His will are not His.

Because you say so?

I became a Christian because I wanted to live without hurting myself and those I loved anymore.

Then you likely became a Christian for the wrong reasons.

Repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins made me a cleansed, ex-sinner.
Perfect.

Nope. Sorry, the only perfect Being is God.

And the Lord provides me with all I need to remain that way.

You should stop trying to do, and let Christ do in you.

Nothing is more important to me that pleasing Him who died for me.

Boasting in yourself is not pleasing to God.

Don't you feel the same way?

Supra.