Eternal Security

[turbosixx]

The context is the judgment of the world, not of those who are in Christ.

If I understand you correctly, are you saying those outside of Christ can receive eternal life by doing good? If that is how you see it, could you explain it little more.


You only see what you want to see.

This letter is written to Christians.
1:6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ; 7 to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints
When he says you, is he not talking to the saints?

The world is "they".
1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,....21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


Does the YOU magically change to the world in the rest of the book?
2:1 Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things.
2:5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.


I don't want you to shut up, I want to hear your views.

 

[George Affleck]

You saying Jesus is a liar.? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:5 ; 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Matthew. 28:19 ; And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Acts 22:16. THIS RAVEN OF DEVIL MAN IS GOD EVERYBODY REJECT THE BOOK AND BELIEVE HIM.!!

You err, not knowing the scriptures.
John 3:5KJV

"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." is to be understood this way:

1. The water is the fluid in which the fetus floats and is protected in the womb (not baptism). Even today, when a woman gives birth, it is said that her water breaks. The "water" in this verse is referencing physical birth.

2. The evidence for this is the context of the verse previous and the verse after.

a. In the verse previous Nicodemus questions being born again by contrasting it with physical birth (not baptism) even speaking of the womb and alluding to the method of physical birth.
b. In the verse after Jesus speaks of the physical birth (not baptism) in contrast to spiritual birth. Flesh is flesh and Spirit is spirit.


​

3. Nowhere in this passage is baptizing mentioned unless the reader eisegetically forces their own interpretation onto the word "water" by using a preconceived idea. This method does not allow the Word of God to speak for itself.

4. Nowhere in the scriptures is physical birth and baptism taught together.

5. The message here from the Lord is the didactic relationship between physical birth and spiritual birth. (not baptism)

To paraphrase it reads this way: A physical birth and a spiritual birth are both necessary for entrance into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[COGTHW]

You err, not knowing the scriptures.
John 3:5KJV

"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." is to be understood this way:

1. The water is the fluid in which the fetus floats and is protected in the womb (not baptism). Even today, when a woman gives birth, it is said that her water breaks. The "water" in this verse is referencing physical birth.

2. The evidence for this is the context of the verse previous and the verse after.

a. In the verse previous Nicodemus questions being born again by contrasting it with physical birth (not baptism) even speaking of the womb and alluding to the method of physical birth.
b. In the verse after Jesus speaks of the physical birth (not baptism) in contrast to spiritual birth. Flesh is flesh and Spirit is spirit.


​

3. Nowhere in this passage is baptizing mentioned unless the reader eisegetically forces their own interpretation onto the word "water" by using a preconceived idea. This method does not allow the Word of God to speak for itself.

4. Nowhere in the scriptures is physical birth and baptism taught together.

5. The message here from the Lord is the didactic relationship between physical birth and spiritual birth. (not baptism)

To paraphrase it reads this way: A physical birth and a spiritual birth are both necessary for entrance into the kingdom of heaven.

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5 WASHING = water, get one person in the Scriptures, that were baptized and it said they were born of woman. You can't. ; 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? Acts 8:36 . Scriptures say water. But you say a woman womb. Sir the Scriptures are right. If it read what you think it did we will all go to hell. Thank Jesus it don't.

 

[musterion]

If I understand you correctly, are you saying those outside of Christ can receive eternal life by doing good?

Paul already gave the answer to that.

"No, not one."

 

[COGTHW]

You left off this part of that passage:

17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

He still baptized.!! Wow continue reading. 1 Corinthians 1: 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. ' Apostle Paul still baptized. You have to be baptized, you not rejecting me you are rejecting God Words. Jesus said you have to be baptized to make it into heaven. And if you say He didn't you are lost. ; 2 Corinthians 4: 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.' You are lost, and if you say you don't have to be baptized of water in the name of Jesus Christ you are lost. Jesus taught the Apostles and told them what to do and they ACTED = Acts they acted it out. You deny me, you deny the Apostles, then you deny Jesus Christ which in totally you deny God.

 

[patrick jane]

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5 WASHING = water, get one person in the Scriptures, that were baptized and it said they were born of woman. You can't. ; 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? Acts 8:36 . Scriptures say water. But you say a woman womb. Sir the Scriptures are right. If it read what you think it did we will all go to hell. Thank Jesus it don't.

You poor lost soul

 

[turbosixx]

"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." is to be understood this way:

1. The water is the fluid in which the fetus floats and is protected in the womb (not baptism). Even today, when a woman gives birth, it is said that her water breaks. The "water" in this verse is referencing physical birth.

2. The evidence for this is the context of the verse previous and the verse after.

a. In the verse previous Nicodemus questions being born again by contrasting it with physical birth (not baptism) even speaking of the womb and alluding to the method of physical birth.
b. In the verse after Jesus speaks of the physical birth (not baptism) in contrast to spiritual birth. Flesh is flesh and Spirit is spirit.


​

You err not knowing the scriptures.

If the water is that of the womb then we should not see the water and the spirit in the conversion of Christians, but that is exactly what we see.

Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Water and Spirit.

Acts 10:47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
Again, water and spirit in conversion.

Peter even says the water of baptism saves us just like those on the ark were saved through water.
1 Pt. 3:20... eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you

Could you please explain all this water if it's supposed to be that of the womb?​

 

[turbosixx]

Paul already gave the answer to that.

"No, not one."

I agree none outside of Christ.

If I understood you correctly, you said this was to those of the world.

Rom. 2:6...the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;

 

[COGTHW]

You poor lost soul

Show in the Scriptures when Jesus went to heaven. That the Church didn't baptized people in water. SHOW IT.!! That's all you gotta do just show where one believer AFTER Jesus Christ. JUST ONE.!!

 

[patrick jane]

Show in the Scriptures when Jesus went to heaven. That the Church didn't baptized people in water. SHOW IT.!! That's all you gotta do just show where one believer AFTER Jesus Christ. JUST ONE.!!

Believing is the only requirement to salvation

http://www.faithfacts.org/world-rel...1-reasons-baptism-not-necessary-for-salvation

 

[musterion]

I agree none outside of Christ.

If I understood you correctly, you said this was to those of the world.

Rom. 2:6...the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;

Read ch.1-2 straight through.

 

[COGTHW]

Believing is the only requirement to salvation

http://www.faithfacts.org/world-rel...1-reasons-baptism-not-necessary-for-salvation

One Scripture, that the believer after Jesus Christ went to heaven didn't get baptized of water. Not a website, that website is not going to help you. YOU need to bring one Scripture that say they was not baptized. Just one. After Jesus Christ.

 

[COGTHW]

Believing is the only requirement to salvation

http://www.faithfacts.org/world-rel...1-reasons-baptism-not-necessary-for-salvation

You say believing is the only requirement, is against God words. James 2:24,26 ; 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. ; Your internet doctrine is false. Jesus said you had to be born of water and the Spirit to make it to heaven.

 

[patrick jane]

You say believing is the only requirement, is against God words. James 2:24,26 ; 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. ; Your internet doctrine is false. Jesus said you had to be born of water and the Spirit to make it to heaven.

You poor lost soul :wave2:

 

[COGTHW]

You poor lost soul :wave2:

Exactly no Scripture. Your doctrine false.

 

[musterion]

There's no communication possible between two people reading two different Bibles and that's what's happening here. It's what keeps the lights on at TOL.

If one person takes the entire Bible to himself for his personal doctrine and [selective] application, he will never understand and will always resent the one who says the Pauline portion of God's Word is primarily intended for his personal obedience. At the same time, the one who holds to Paul's revelation fully understands the one who claims Genesis-Revelation as his applicable own; often because he used to be there himself. But what little they may find to agree on will put them no closer than a Catholic or Mormon is with a fundamentalist. What they DON'T agree on always dwarfs what they may agree on.

Two different and contradictory Bibles, it amounts to.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You say believing is the only requirement, is against God words. James 2:24,26 ; 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. ; Your internet doctrine is false. Jesus said you had to be born of water and the Spirit to make it to heaven.

The book of James was written to the scattered twelve tribes of Israel only.

 

[musterion]

The book of James was written to the scattered twelve tribes of Israel only.

Ignorance or plain unbelief are the only ways anyone today can try to apply James to himself.

 

[nikolai_42]

22 'In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:'

23 'If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;' Colossians 1:22-23 ; We have to be holy before God. So He won't reject us.! Man I love the Lord this morning. Truth with scriptures and His Spirit.

I'm curious...what guarantee do you personally have that you won't defect from the faith? That you won't depart from the Lord? That you won't sin that sin that gets you severed from Him? What is keeping you from that?

 

[Jdorman]

Believing is the only requirement to salvation

http://www.faithfacts.org/world-rel...1-reasons-baptism-not-necessary-for-salvation

What about in Acts 2? Peter preached the Gospel, the onlookers were, "pricked in their heart". This implies that they had accepted Peter's message as truth both in their minds and in their hearts. Yet at this point they still had not received the Spirit. Peter knew they needed to do more. Peter didn't say that's it your done now because you believe. His response was Acts 2:38!

Here are some other examples of insufficient belief:

"The Scripture gives many examples of people who had some degree of faith in Christ but who were not saved. This demonstrates that a person can have a mental belief in Jesus as Lord and Savior and yet not obey Him, rely upon Him, or commit himself to Him to the point of salvation.

For example, many people in Israel believed on Jesus when they saw the miracles He performed. However, Jesus did not commit Himself to them because He knew their hearts. They had not fully committed themselves to Him as Lord of their lives (John 2:23-25).

Similarly, many of the Jewish religious leaders believed on Jesus but they did not confess Him for fear of being put out of the synagogues. They loved the praise of men more than the praise of God (John 12:42-43). God did not accept them because they did not act upon their belief.

According to Jesus, some people do great miracles in His name, yet if they refuse to do God's will, they will not be saved (Matthew 7:21-27). They will have enough faith for miracles but not enough faith to obey God's Word in all things. They will have faith but not saving faith.

The Samaritans believed Philip's preaching and were baptized, yet they did not receive the Spirit of God until Peter and John came (Acts 8:12-17). Simon the magician was one who believed and was baptized, but he later tried to buy spiritual power and blessings with money (Acts 8:18-19). Peter rebuked him and told him to repent of his wickedness, saying, "Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God… For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity" (Acts 8:21-23). He was not saved at this point, even though he had believed to some extent.

Even the devils believe in one God (James 2:19), which is more than some do. Not only do they believe, but they confess Jesus to be the Son of God (Matthew 8:29). Despite their belief and confession, however, they do not have saving faith.

In each of these cases, there was mental understanding and assent, but there was also a lack of total commitment to Jesus and obedience to His Word. The people possessed a degree of faith but not enough to bring about salvation. Saving faith, then, is inseparably linked with obedience." (David K Bernard)