7djengo7
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Now, is he or she one of Romans 9's vessels unto honour and vessels of mercy? A vessel of mercy under the wrath of God?
ELECT Sinners In The Hands Of An Angry God
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Now, is he or she one of Romans 9's vessels unto honour and vessels of mercy? A vessel of mercy under the wrath of God?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Ah, the teacher teaching the wannabe teacher. :thumb:
glorydaz
Well-known member
No, Salvation is the understood SUBJECT of this sentence.
7djengo7
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What do you mean to imply in calling someone whom you think may be heretical, "Brother"?
When you say "Brother", to MennoSota, are you not implying "MennoSota, I know you are one of the elect"?
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It is a work of God. It is not a work of ourself. We cannot boast.
Jengy, please do read Ephesians 2:1-10 sometime. Perhaps God will enlighten you.
Salvation is the action of God upon a helpless, hopeless, sinner who cannot do anything to help him/her self.
glorydaz
Well-known member
So you claim man has an excuse, but scripture tells us otherwise.
The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. I'm surprised you don't know that.
Faith cometh by hearing...."and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"
7djengo7
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The gift is not faith; the gift is grace.
Here, again, is Ephesians 2:8:
In the clause, 'For by grace are ye saved through faith", there are two nouns: 'grace' and 'faith'. In the second clause, the pronoun 'that' is directed to the noun 'grace', and not to the noun 'faith'. In the third clause, the pronoun 'it' is directed to the noun 'grace', and not to the noun 'faith'.
The correct way to handle the verse is this:
An incorrect way to handle the verse--the way in which you handle it--is this:
Not even one passage of Scripture declares faith to be a gift from God to man, just as not one passage of Scripture declares faith to be a gift from man to God. But, in Scripture, there are, indeed, declarations that God gives grace to people:
Romans 12:3 "...through the grace given unto me...",
Romans 12:6 "...the grace that is given to us...",
Romans 15:15 "...the grace that is given to me of God.",
John 1:17 "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.",
Proverbs 3:34 "...he giveth grace unto the lowly.",
Psalms 84:11 "...the LORD will give grace...",
Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God",
etc.
Ask Mr. Religion
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When regenerated the disposition of the person's heart which once loved darkness is changed. This person willingly turns to embrace the Savior since his hatred of God has been transformed to a love for Him (Ezekiel 11:19-20). In other words, God doesn't do the believing for us but empowers and restores us by the Holy Spirit to delightfully respond in faith and obedience.
If you are enabled to believe you will not not believe....ever. There is indeed the sense of monergism here (Php. 2:13), as well as the plain fact that the person believes of his own will (Php. 2:12). The command is "live and do this" in the Covenant of Grace. Both the living and the doing are monergistic in a strict sense as shown in Philippians op. cit., yet synergistic in the walk of faith sense. I get that the Hoeksema folks will disagree, and am not going to enter into the debate which continues to rage today.
AMR
:thumb: Ain't nothin' like the plain spoken word of GOD!
You are picking at gnats, AMR. I confess your straining is something that doesn't concern me. What concerns me is that God is the giver and enactor of the faith we receive. To God be all the glory.
What cannot be correct is the proposal that humans enact their own faith through the conjuring of their own will.
7djengo7
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If you cannot boast, then why do you boast, thou enlightened one? "God enlightened me, MennoSota, and not you, Jengy! Hahaha! Ain't it sweet!"
Since the Bible nowhere says that faith "is a work of God", you're going to have to fill us in as to exactly what you mean when you say that it is. What, exactly, would you say it is for faith to be "a work of God"? What would you say it is for a man's having faith to be "a work of God"? Remember, even AMR understands that God doesn't do the believing for the believer. So, what, exactly, would you say God is doing when he does the "work of God" you call "faith"?
Remember, you are claiming that faith, itself, "is a work of God"; you're not merely claiming that faith is the result, or outcome of a work of God; you're not merely claiming that faith is the result of God's work of regeneration, for instance. You're saying that a man's faith, itself, is "a work of God", next to His other works, like regeneration, justification, sanctification, etc. Have fun trying to explain to us what, exactly, you mean by that, let alone trying to come up with even one Scripture passage to back up any attempted explanation you might be silly enough to offer.
Now, in Ephesians 2:8-9, we read:
Clearly, here, Paul is saying, in v. 9, that something to which he referred in v. 8 is "not of works". Which thing, in v. 8, would you say that Paul is declaring, in v. 9, to be "not of works"? Is Paul saying that grace is not of works, or is he saying that faith is not of works? Which is it?
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7djengo7
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What, exactly, would you say it is for God to give faith to somebody?
What, exactly, would you say it is for God to enact somebody's faith?
Why must you multiply gobbledygook?
"enact their own faith through the conjuring of their own will"? That is meaningless. Is your name short for MeaninglesSota?
Rosenritter
New member
Mark 9:23-24 KJV
(23) Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
(24) And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
That (above) would seem to be the closest in saying that faith could be given (or helped) from God... but even that is with the admission that there needs to be faith put forward by the subject to begin with.
Paul is saying:If you cannot boast, then why do you boast, thou enlightened one? "God enlightened me, MennoSota, and not you, Jengy! Hahaha! Ain't it sweet!"
Since the Bible nowhere says that faith "is a work of God", you're going to have to fill us in as to exactly what you mean when you say that it is. What, exactly, would you say it is for faith to be "a work of God"? What would you say it is for a man's having faith to be "a work of God"? Remember, even AMR understands that God doesn't do the believing for the believer. So, what, exactly, would you say God is doing when he does the "work of God" you call "faith"?
Remember, you are claiming that faith, itself, "is a work of God"; you're not merely claiming that faith is the result, or outcome of a work of God; you're not merely claiming that faith is the result of God's work of regeneration, for instance. You're saying that a man's faith, itself, is "a work of God", next to His other works, like regeneration, justification, sanctification, etc. Have fun trying to explain to us what, exactly, you mean by that, let alone trying to come up with even one Scripture passage to back up any attempted explanation you might be silly enough to offer.
Now, in Ephesians 2:8-9, we read:
Clearly, here, Paul is saying, in v. 9, that something to which he referred in v. 8 is "not of works". Which thing, in v. 8, would you say that Paul is declaring, in v. 9, to be "not of works"? Is Paul saying that grace is not of works, or is he saying that faith is not of works? Which is it?
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
Paul, inspired by God, is very clear. Yet, you cannot accept God doing the saving. You cannot accept God giving the gift of faith.
Do you desire to boast?
I would exactly say it is God's Sovereign choice. His will...not yours.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Indeed.
“. . The Spirit knitteh us unto Christ, and Christ unto us, by His blessed Spirit. He worketh
faith in us to receive whatsoever the Lord giveth unto us and by the same faith worketh all holiness for us. ‘Christ is made unto us of God, wisdom, and righteousness, and justification, and SANCTIFICATION, and redemption’ I Corinthians 1:30; therefore we are to see Him principal author of all these things in us, and for us . . “
John Cotton
7djengo7
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That's gobbledygook.
So, you have answered neither of the two questions I asked you:
And, as usual, you and I both know that you have no hope of answering either of them.
You see it as gobblygook (which I interpret as you calling God's Sovereignty... foolishness). Those who are perishing call God's word "foolishness."That's gobbledygook.
So, you have answered neither of the two questions I asked you:
And, as usual, you and I both know that you have no hope of answering either of them.
When you hate my answer, you claim I didn't ever answer your question. Your claim is, as it always has been, false. You have been answered. Deal with it. I owe you nothing more as your modis operandi is to keep pretzeling in order to avoid your false construct.