Rosenritter
New member
...better switch do "Djengo" if he objects to "Jengy."
ELECT Sinners In The Hands Of An Angry God
- Thread starter 7djengo7
- Start date
...better switch do "Djengo" if he objects to "Jengy."
Rosenritter
New member
Originally Posted by 7djengo7
Why do you spit upon justification through faith?
Why do you spit upon your wife Djengo?
(See, that isn't the right type of question.)
Rosenritter
New member
It isn't a matter of head, it is a matter of heart.
Your first sentence is false.Neither Romans 5:1, nor Ephesians 2:8, teach that faith is a gift from God.
And, I'll never agree with you that faith is a work, either.
Now, exactly which one of the six questions that I asked you in post #45 are you, in post #49, saying (and therefore, lying) that you answered? You have answered none of the questions I asked you. I'll list them, here, so that you can get your kicks from stonewalling against them a second time, and then from lying some more:
No answer from you.
No answer from you.
No answer from you.
No answer from you.
No answer from you.
No answer from you.
So, as usual, you lie to me, saying that you answered a question I asked you. Well, which one of those five questions were you, in post #49, telling me you answered?
And, why do you lie to me? Here's why: because you hate my guts. And, why do you hate my guts? Because, as you, and I, and everybody else who has read our posts, know, you have never answered any of the questions that I have asked you; because, as you and I both know, you can't even try, honestly, to answer them, without continuing to embarrass Calvinism and yourself. You hate my guts, and that's why you are constantly spamming my posts, and the threads that I have started, never answering the questions I ask you, and never posting anything the least bit relevant to what I have written. You hate my guts, and that's why you have publicly expressed your venomous desire for me to get banned from posting on TOL:
It's not like it has been a task of any difficulty, to sound you out in these forums for the troll you are. I mean, come on, man, you and I both know that virtually nobody reading TOL takes posters (and posers) like you, and beloved57, seriously. We all know that the height and depth and breadth of your polemic "abilities" is plainly seen in your ravings, in your irrelevant remarks, in your incessant, over-and-over, and meaningless, copy/pasting of Scripture passages, and in your posting external links to irrelevant sources in vain hope of distracting readers from the fact that you can't reason for yourself, and think on your own feet. How obviously pathetic it is, that all you could think to do in reacting to this thread about one of Calvinism's most famous hypocrites, Jonathan Edwards, is to repeatedly post a link to the very sermon of his which, in this thread, I have shined light on his Calvinistic hypocrisy!
I don't even consider to be trolls, all those posting on here professing to cherish Calvinism. For instance, take Ask Mr. Religion; he can't answer my questions, and he can't defend what is Scripturally/rationally indefensible, and yet, he's a fairly refined gentleman, pretty sharp at English, and no troll, and he sometimes writes (or links to) some interesting, useful stuff. But, he doesn't usually come across as exceedingly boorish, and he doesn't spam people, like you and beloved57. Let me put it this way: by comparison, he (and others) does not appear to be begging for attention, like you and beloved57 are doing. Not only are your posts irrelevant, but they're not even the least bit interesting, or original. Nobody ever thinks, "Oh, I wonder if MennoSota has posted something fresh, relevant, and thought-provoking today!" And, beloved57, himself, even has it better than you have it: he, at least, has a parrot named "Nanja" sitting on his shoulder, thanking him for every one his posted ravings 24/7. Maybe that's what you need, eh?
Anyway, MennoSota, again, why do you spit on justification through faith by holding, in agreement with beloved57, that people are justified without faith?
Oh, also, MennoSota, why is it that I, freely, as a grownup, address you by your user handle, but you--the keyboard hero that you are--being quite a few years my senior, address me by means of some puerile noise you came up with: "jengy"? You behave toward me in the same manner as does Idolater:
There, for instance, he tried to vent his wrathful hatred of me by calling me "Django", instead of 7djengo7, and here as "Jenga":
But, MennoSota, that's what keyboard warriors like you and Idolater are forced to do.
You reject what God has written. You have closed yourself off to truth.Neither Romans 5:1, nor Ephesians 2:8, teach that faith is a gift from God.
Ok. That doesn't answer my question.
It must be easy for you to say what part is idiotic.
It is easy for me to point it out. It may be difficult for you to comprehend why your statement is idiotic, however.
Hint: consider your assumption God.
Rosenritter
New member
Your statement would only be true under certain theological view assumptions.
1) I think that would be false from the Calvinist viewpoint, where salvation is not a matter of the heart of the person or their intelligence, but merely whether one is selected from before they were ever created for salvation. All others are denied the ability to repent or exercise faith.
2) I believe that might be true from certain other viewpoints, that view salvation as a matter of knowing or believing certain "facts." Gnosticism or certain of those that argue that one must "believe" a certain "statement of beliefs" might need to answer this charge further.
3) I understand your statement to be incorrect, in that no one is "burned" for lacking intelligence of knowledge, as any lack of intelligence or mental ability or understanding can easily be fixed by God when a person stands before Him in judgment. We are told that we are judged by how we respond to what we are given, and that to him that has been shown much much is expected. In the parable of the sheep and the goats, Christ gladly redeems those who were without knowledge of him yet who had the heart of love towards others: these "sheep" are of the heart that also gladly accept Christ when they find Him.
7djengo7
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Pardon me, but I do not see what you are trying to say. MennoSota, along with beloved57, spits upon justification through faith, by thinking that people can be justified before--and, therefore, without--having faith. That is why I asked him why he spits upon justification through faith.
Rosenritter
New member
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question
"A loaded question or complex question fallacy is a question that contains a controversial or unjustified assumption (e.g., a presumption of guilt).[1]
Aside from being an informal fallacy depending on usage, such questions may be used as a rhetorical tool: the question attempts to limit direct replies to be those that serve the questioner's agenda.[2] The traditional example is the question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" Whether the respondent answers yes or no, he will admit to having a wife and having beaten her at some time in the past. Thus, these facts are presupposed by the question, and in this case an entrapment, because it narrows the respondent to a single answer, and the fallacy of many questions has been committed..."
Incorrect.
God does not deny anyone the ability to repent or exercise faith. Your statement makes God out to be the bad one, not man.
Humans will not repent nor exercise faith because their very, corrupted, nature will never consider surrender. The Bible tells us that humans consider such a thing to be foolishness.
Since humans will not repent or exercise faith, God chooses to graciously adopt some rebellious humans and give them the gift of faith, which leads to repentance. God is not and never was obligated to do so. God is and was obligated to justly condemn such corrupted beings.
But God... (One of the greatest phrases you can ever read in scripture)
Made those whom he adopted, alive in Christ. No one but God knows why, other than that God's love chose to do so.
So to reiterate, you are incorrect in your statement.
7djengo7
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What (if anything) does your copy/paste from Wikipedia have to do with anything I wrote? Obviously, I get that you're accusing me of fallacy, somehow, but the exact nature of your accusation is not clear at all. If you don't mind, please quote exactly what it was that I wrote that you are calling fallacious, and then try to analyze it for me, to try to show me exactly why you are calling it fallacious. Thanks.
Rosenritter
New member
You are equivocating. If God has to "specifically grant" an "ability" to "have faith" then he is by default denying that ability to everyone else. You cannot fault God's creation for being exactly as he made them, so in that system if there is a fault to be found with their faith it has become God's fault.
Regardless, you weren't disagreeing that within Calvinism that "ignorance" is not what brings a person to damnation and that "intelligence" or "knowledge" is what saves him, no? Ultimately it would be election that saves.
Rosenritter
New member
"Why do you spit upon justification by faith?" You don't understand why that is a loaded question? for shame....
7djengo7
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You are making faith (and thus, justification) to be conditioned upon adoption.
Whereas, at one Calvinism website, we read:
But, your view (with which Ask Mr. Religion now agrees, perhaps, inasmuch as he thanked you for airing it) is starkly out of accord with these views, since, despite their mutual differences, both are in agreement that adoption is conditioned upon faith, rather than that faith is conditioned upon adoption, as you make it out to be.
7djengo7
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Thanks for the clear and cogent analysis, man! It's amazing just how much explanatory power there is in setting a font in bold.
Would you call what you wrote--"You don't understand why that is a loaded question?"--a "loaded question"? If so, why? If not, why not?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Making it red is cool, too. But, it's still a loaded question.....like this one. :chuckle:
glorydaz
Well-known member
There is no "ability" God is granting. You still are attempting to make saving faith a human ability. No human has the ability. No human can conjure up saving faith...not even the elect. Why? Because spiritually dead people cannot will any spiritual thing to happen. God must do it all.
God chooses to cause faith to exist in the person's He chooses to make alive in Christ. The effect of this work of God is that these humans repent.
You will never understand as long as you demand that humans are the cause agents of faith rather than God being the cause agent of faith.
I make faith a gift, given to those whom God makes alive. God only makes alive those whom He has adopted.
Why do I do this?
Because God tells us in Ephesians 1 and 2.
Jengy, your fight is with God, not me.