Don't be Jewish be Christian

[daqq]

Mathew 17
10The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?”11Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.

Jesus said this after John the Baptist was dead.

Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things."

Mmmm How can Elijah still be yet to come if he was John the Baptist as well? Quite the conundrum but the answers are all in the Bible and in the Words of Jesus.

I was quoting Mark, (the difference is important).

Mark 9:11-13 (ASV)
11 And they asked him, saying, How is it that the scribes say that Elijah must first come?
12 And he said unto them, Elijah indeed cometh first, and restoreth all things: and how is it written of the Son of man, that he should suffer many things and be set at nought?
13 But [contrariwise] I say unto you, that Elijah is come, and they have also done unto him whatsoever they would, even as it is written of him.

And where is it written of Yohanan Eliyahu that they would karath-cut off his head? And what and who are nashim in the symbolic scriptural sense? Does nashim always simply mean "women"? or are the Kohanim also sometimes referred to in such a sense? (that is, as nashim). You might want to take a close look into Zechariah 14:2 because according to the oath sworn by Herod in Mark 6:23, (where he quotes Ahasuerus from the book of Esther, Esth 5:3, 5:6, 7:2), the head of Yohanan ends up becoming the half of the kingdom, (and therefore half of the city).

And how is it written of the Son of Man? that he should suffer many things and be set at nought? set to nothingness? have nothing to-for himself? or not be? (Daniel 9:26). Contrariwise, the Master says to you that Eliyahu has already come, and they have also done unto him whatsoever they desired, (and karath-cut-off his head), even as it is written of him.

But in and unto Elohim all Live:

Revelation 22:20
20 He who testifies these things says, Yea, I come quickly, amen: come, Master Ι̅H.

These are the words of the testifier-witness and forerunner: "Come, Master Ι̅H."

 

[Zeke]

There are three basic arguments here:
1. The fact that there are many ancient manuscripts shows that the text is historically accurate.
2. The fact that some of the manuscripts are dated to the first generation or two after the events happened proves that the stories are true.
3. Since nobody at the time said "hang on- that's not true"- the stories must be true.

1. The fact that there are many ancient manuscripts indicates that the text that we have is in fact ancient. It can indicate that we have a text that is close to the original. It does not indicate that the content of the text is accurate.

If there were 10,000 copies of Homer's Iliad, it would not make it more historically accurate.

How does one get so many NT manuscripts? First of all- you need to have a popular religion. It helps if your religion is in power and preserves your manuscripts rather than burning them.

2. This claim is not new to me either. Legends develop a lot faster than many people realize. It doesn't take generations. Look at how many people fall for all sorts of new cults.

3. Considering who preserved documents in the Middle Ages, it is no surprise that the pro-Christian ones were preserved. Did I mention the Church burning books that it considered heretical? I also wonder how much attention the early Christians got- as opposed to simply being ignored.

History being relative to ones culture be it east or west tend to follow legend and bias ingrained from ones youth. The Hebrewic version is suspect when taken literally as historic events Galatians 4:24 kinda throws some allegorical light on genealogies being actual people, the lesson being taught also subject to cultural influences that claim ownership. Christ never came nor went, that substance is all there is.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

I was quoting Mark, (the difference is important).

Mark 9:11-13 (ASV)
11 And they asked him, saying, How is it that the scribes say that Elijah must first come?
12 And he said unto them, Elijah indeed cometh first, and restoreth all things: and how is it written of the Son of man, that he should suffer many things and be set at nought?
13 But [contrariwise] I say unto you, that Elijah is come, and they have also done unto him whatsoever they would, even as it is written of him.

And where is it written of Yohanan Eliyahu that they would karath-cut off his head? And what and who are nashim in the symbolic scriptural sense? Does nashim always simply mean "women"? or are the Kohanim also sometimes referred to in such a sense? (that is, as nashim). You might want to take a close look into Zechariah 14:2 because according to the oath sworn by Herod in Mark 6:23, (where he quotes Ahasuerus from the book of Esther, Esth 5:3, 5:6, 7:2), the head of Yohanan ends up becoming the half of the kingdom, (and therefore half of the city).

And how is it written of the Son of Man? that he should suffer many things and be set at nought? set to nothingness? have nothing to-for himself? or not be? (Daniel 9:26). Contrariwise, the Master says to you that Eliyahu has already come, and they have also done unto him whatsoever they desired, (and karath-cut-off his head), even as it is written of him.

But in and unto Elohim all Live:

Revelation 22:20
20 He who testifies these things says, Yea, I come quickly, amen: come, Master Ι̅H.

These are the words of the testifier-witness and forerunner: "Come, Master Ι̅H."

You'll need to explain your idea more succinctly if you would like me to understand what you mean.

 

[daqq]

You'll need to explain your idea more succinctly if you would like me to understand what you mean.

Though he never lays his hands upon the one being immersed; the immerser is "the witness" and he who testifies all things whatsoever he sees and hears. But if Meshiah the Word is within you then you might say, "Come, Master", as you walk in the Way having been sent, (like a forerunner). Yohanan heard the sound of a voice like a trumpet speaking to him from behind him, (behind his countenance or face?), and he plainly says that Meshiah is he who comes behind him, (behind his countenance or face if Meshiah is within him). :chuckle:

John 1:15 W/H
15 ιωαννης μαρτυρει περι αυτου και κεκραγεν λεγων ουτος ην ο ειπων ο οπισω μου ερχομενος εμπροσθεν μου γεγονεν οτι πρωτος μου ην
15 Yohanan testifies concerning him, [in the Apocalypse] and has cried, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'The one coming behind me has become before me, [in front of, in the presence of] for he was before me.'"

Think in terms of the Word, for that is the context of John 1, "In the beginning was the Word", and the Word was before Yohanan but came and appeared behind him, (Revelation 1:10).

Revelation 1:10 W/H
10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος

οπισω - "opiso" - to the back, aback, behind, (though it is rendered "after" in most translations of John 1:15 that is merely because it is an arbitrary decision which makes more sense to most translators and readers: but is that view true? only if your paradigm is at stake and you do not wish to relinquish what you think you have).

 

[Artur Axmann]

I hope you will be thanking me shortly for helping to save your soul from Hell. So let's deal with your real and only issue, what do you make of Isaiah 53:

Isaiah 53
1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? 2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem. 4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 8 By oppression and judgement he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished.b 9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand. 11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied ; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,g and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

The best evidence that Christ is clearly revealed throughout scripture ,especially in the book of Isaiah ,and chap 53 . in partular, is that in today's synagogues, this reading and all related or similar
others have been eliminated from the weekly sabbath readings. What should that tell you about the shady characters from the "synagogue" and their honesty?

 

[Jacob]

I hope you will be thanking me shortly for helping to save your soul from Hell. So let's deal with your real and only issue, what do you make of Isaiah 53:

Isaiah 53
1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? 2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem. 4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 8 By oppression and judgement he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished.b 9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand. 11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied ; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,g and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Shalom.

I am Jewish. A Jew. I am a proselyte and a convert to Judaism and Israel. I accept the TaNaKh and Matthew through Revelation. I accept Isaiah 53. I have learned from more than one source.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Though he never lays his hands upon the one being immersed; the immerser is "the witness" and he who testifies all things whatsoever he sees and hears. But if Meshiah the Word is within you then you might say, "Come, Master", as you walk in the Way having been sent, (like a forerunner). Yohanan heard the sound of a voice like a trumpet speaking to him from behind him, (behind his countenance or face?), and he plainly says that Meshiah is he who comes behind him, (behind his countenance or face if Meshiah is within him). :chuckle:

John 1:15 W/H
15 ιωαννης μαρτυρει περι αυτου και κεκραγεν λεγων ουτος ην ο ειπων ο οπισω μου ερχομενος εμπροσθεν μου γεγονεν οτι πρωτος μου ην
15 Yohanan testifies concerning him, [in the Apocalypse] and has cried, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'The one coming behind me has become before me, [in front of, in the presence of] for he was before me.'"

Think in terms of the Word, for that is the context of John 1, "In the beginning was the Word", and the Word was before Yohanan but came and appeared behind him, (Revelation 1:10).

Revelation 1:10 W/H
10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος

οπισω - "opiso" - to the back, aback, behind, (though it is rendered "after" in most translations of John 1:15 that is merely because it is an arbitrary decision which makes more sense to most translators and readers: but is that view true? only if your paradigm is at stake and you do not wish to relinquish what you think you have).

I'm sorry but I think you might be a little confused or insane? I don't think I'll be able to converse with you.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

The best evidence that Christ is clearly revealed throughout scripture ,especially in the book of Isaiah ,and chap 53 . in partular, is that in today's synagogues, this reading and all related or similar
others have been eliminated from the weekly sabbath readings. What should that tell you about the shady characters from the "synagogue" and their honesty?

Yep. "They don't like it up them Mr Mainwaring."

I have no idea why that line came to mind?

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Shalom.

I am Jewish. A Jew. I am a proselyte and a convert to Judaism and Israel. I accept the TaNaKh and Matthew through Revelation. I accept Isaiah 53. I have learned from more than one source.

Shalom.

Jacob

What do you mean 'accept the New Testament.' If you really accept it you would be a Christian and not a Jew.

 

[daqq]

I'm sorry but I think you might be a little confused or insane? I don't think I'll be able to converse with you.

Of course not: your paradigm is king.

 

[chair]

The best evidence that Christ is clearly revealed throughout scripture ,especially in the book of Isaiah ,and chap 53 . in partular, is that in today's synagogues, this reading and all related or similar
others have been eliminated from the weekly sabbath readings. What should that tell you about the shady characters from the "synagogue" and their honesty?

Considering that there are many hundreds of chapters in the Prophets (67 in Isaiah alone!), and only about 60 Sabbaths and holidays on which portions from the prophets are read, I fail to see the shady conspiracy here.

 

[Jacob]

What do you mean 'accept the New Testament.' If you really accept it you would be a Christian and not a Jew.

Shalom.

I accept Matthew through Revelation. I do not call these books the New Testament. The New Covenant is not Scripture.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Shalom.

I accept Matthew through Revelation. I do not call these books the New Testament. The New Covenant is not Scripture.

Shalom.

Jacob

In what way do you accept them?

 

[Jacob]

In what way do you accept them?

Shalom.

I believe that they are true, included in the Word of God.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Shalom.

I believe that they are true, included in the Word of God.

Shalom.

Jacob

If so then you should believe Jesus is the Messiah, your Saviour and the Son of God. Do you believe this?

 

[Jacob]

If so then you should believe Jesus is the Messiah, your Saviour and the Son of God. Do you believe this?

Shalom.

Yes. I believe that Jesus, Yeshua, is the Messiah, my Savior, and the Son of God.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[meshak]

Shalom.

Yes. I believe that Jesus, Yeshua, is the Messiah, my Savior, and the Son of God.

Shalom.

Jacob

why do you dwell on so much about being a Jew?

 

[Jacob]

why do you dwell on so much about being a Jew?

I am a Jew. This involves both my belief and practice.

I do not understand the nature of your question. It is not something that I am dwelling on. But, it is my identity.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Shalom.

Yes. I believe that Jesus, Yeshua, is the Messiah, my Savior, and the Son of God.

Shalom.

Jacob

Well that would strongly suggest you are a Christian and therefore could not be Jewish.

 

[Jacob]

Well that would strongly suggest you are a Christian and therefore could not be Jewish.

Shalom.

Our Messiah, my Messiah, God's Messiah, is of and for Israel and the world.

Shalom.

Jacob