ECT Does the book of James contradict Paul's epistles? How?

Livelystone

New member
Yes

Paul says for if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God
fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised.
that is why Abraham's faith was "counted to him as righteousness."but the words "it was counted to him" were not written for Abraham's sake alone,
but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe.
so no reason to boast

but

James says "Abraham our father justified by works"
so
according to James Abraham had a reason to boast

Interesting post :up:

I have had a long day and need to consider your post after some coffee in the AM

However, and in the meantime I think it is a good post and you deserve recognition for it!

Blessings to you, and to yours,

Doug
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Your are just sooooo ignorant it's amazing.

Firstly, there are Jews and Gentiles in BOTH of God's programs.

Secondly, it is clear to anyone that actually READS the scriptures, that Israel is not ruling over the Gentiles nations like Bible prophecy says that they will.

Thirdly, believers today are saved BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST. There is NO other requirement TODAY. It is YOU what has a faith problem.

You are totally clueless. Totally!
Rom 5:1-9 KJV Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (3) And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; (4) And patience, experience; and experience, hope: (5) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. (6) For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. (7) For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. (8) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.(9) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
OUR salvation, if you'd like to join US, is by the BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST, shed for US on the CROSS.
Eph 2:11-17 KJV Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; (12) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: (13) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. (14) For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; (15) Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; (16) And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: (17) And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
BY THE BLOOD! NO MENTION OF A COVENANT!

The body of Christ is reconciled to God by what CHRIST DID FOR US ON THE CROSS.

yes. why people hear and see and read, question everything again, and go backwards, i don't know. - :patrol:
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Yes

Paul says for if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God
fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised.
that is why Abraham's faith was "counted to him as righteousness."but the words "it was counted to him" were not written for Abraham's sake alone,
but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe.
so no reason to boast

but

James says "Abraham our father justified by works"
so
according to James Abraham had a reason to boast


I see that, however, just that sentence - "Abraham our father justified by works" does not specificlly "mean" "works" alone. Did James SAY Abraham has reason to boast ? the "works" James referred to is the same thing Paul is saying - FAITH - :patrol:
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Oatmeal seems to have a delusion relating to LazyA? He actually believes
LA has some relevance here on this forum? LA has NEVER said anything
(to my knowledge) even 'slightly' interesting or worthwhile?
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Yes

Paul says for if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God
fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised.
that is why Abraham's faith was "counted to him as righteousness."but the words "it was counted to him" were not written for Abraham's sake alone,
but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe.
so no reason to boast

but

James says "Abraham our father justified by works"
so
according to James Abraham had a reason to boast

Thanks for posting.

The solution to the apparent dilemma is found in Romans 4 from which you quote.

I anticipate the following will clear up the apparent contradiction.

Paul's point is made clear in Romans 4:9-16

"Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,"


By the works of the law no man is justified, for no man conceived with that sin nature could keep the law, no matter how much work he put into it.

It does take work to believe. For instance, we must first be informed that Abraham was justified by his believing before we can believe that Abraham was justified by his believing. It takes work to be informed, we must listen or read, we must willfully absorb that information, that takes work, maybe not a lot of work, but work nonetheless.

For Abraham to believe that he would have a son by Sarah required that he take appropriate action on the promise, he had to have sex with Sarah believing God's promise, and not simply go through the motions with her. It took the about nine years to work that promise into fruition.

Noah believed God about the flood, therefore Noah built the ark and brought in all the animals, Noah was worthy before God told him, Noah worked because he believed God

As James points out, believing is evidenced by the works that we do.

People can go through the motions of doing the law without believing in the righteousness of the law. They could do it out of compulsion rather than love for God.

If a man believes that Jesus is lord and that God raised him from the dead, that man will have reason and motive to change at least a little of his lifestyle for a least a short time.

As Paul points out, Abe's believing was to God based on the promise given to him by God. Not on the works of the law.

Romans 4:13

For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.


Believing takes work to produce the fruit of believing, but that work is not the work of the law, but by the righteousness of believing.

It is righteous to believe God, and that takes work. But the law, though righteousness, could not make anyone righteous.

Galatians 3:21-22

Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
The power of the Cross is the resurrection of Jesus in us........ this is what takes us from death in Adam unto life in Christ.

Consequently, it is not our resurrection that matters but the resurrection of Christ in us that takes us from death unto life

Whether He remains a simple seed that is "Christ in us our hope of glory," within you, or should He mature into the Tree of Life in Us that is Christ within you that is the second comming of Jesus Christ on earh........ depends on the amount of truth you acquire and the obiedence you follow in this life.

I cannot say it any more plainly

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Few get this, (to date I have only observed one other member here who undertsnds what I am speaking of) unfortunately, I cannot help either of you get it. Either you and LA have ears that hear or you do not?

It is noteworthy that Colossians 1:27 does not say "Jesus in us" but rather "Christ in us"

It is that Christ in us that enables the Christian, Christ in, to fulfill Jesus Christ's promise to believers that we can do the same works as he did and greater works.

John 14:12

We can heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out devils, forgive and the greater works of teaching the way of salvation, Romans 10:9-10, and utilize the three manifestations that were not available before the day of Pentecost.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
sorry I wont post off topic here again..

Not a problem. I enjoy sharing on that subject, but I have to take a break from it at times.

there are times I have done the same thing because it seemed appropriate, but with hindsight, it was not.

You are most welcome to post on any of my threads
 
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