Does Romans 7:1-3 affirm different rules for women and men regarding adultery?

[Sonnet]

This is re Sonnet's post, which I couldn't trace down. But Paul is not validating multiple wives in the Rom 7 illustration!

Right - I didn't say that Paul was validating multiple wives.

I really don't know of any answer to the allowance for polygamy other than the casualties of war. while you are studying OT polygamy, you have to also work on the demographics of the lost males when you see what numbers are thrown into battles.

And one would have thought that there would be scriptures that said as much.

Not very much of this period has God's blessing, by the way. He didn't even want David to do a census. But He tolerated a lot. This is why it is very important to have closure to the whole old covenant system as the NT does. The believers who go around today with excitement about the land, temple, worship system of Israel aren't very realistic readers about the OT times.

?

I'm extremely stumped by your seeing polygamy in the NT, or more exactly, in NT period Judaism. There were no allowances for it in law. That's why the sharpest debate between Shammai and Hillel is not about polygamy but about remarriage, and serial is implied.

I never said that there was polygamy in the NT...though we know it occurred.

You would think that in I cor 7 there would be some discussion and there is not. Roman sexual practices were a completely different kind of problem, which one man--one woman also solved. There was bisexuality and cross-class sex that never 'counted' as adultery, because the servant/doulos class had no recourse.

Not clear as to how 1 Cor 7 assists in the discussion.

 

[Sonnet]

To spell it out plainly,

Compare the works of the flesh in Galatians 5 with Jesus's rebuke to the self righteous in Matthew 23. The self righteous have hijacked the simplicity of the gospel and are denying that God is concerned with all humanity.

You appear to be rebuking Calvinists.

Your questions are excellent. If you rock the boat in the process, you aren't causing division.

Jesus brought the sword.

People either admit their perpetual need for the sacrifice of God and or respond to the call of unconditional love, or they deny their need for God, and or harbor hatred in their hearts.

You are simply asking the right questions.

Ok.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

You appear to be rebuking Calvinists.




Ok.

If it were only just Calvinists.

My mantra is simple.

A) God Loves Everyone Just The Way They Are

B) We are equally in the boat of failure

C) Only God Is Good

D) We are not God

E) It's all about Love

Pretty simple right? Nope, I get called the devil on a daily basis!

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[Sonnet]

This would probably get you a ban if reported. Why are doing this sd?

 

[Sonnet]

Philippians 2:5
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Romans 7 (HCSB)

An Illustration from Marriage

,7*Since I am speaking to those who understand law,
brothers,*are you unaware that the law has authority over
someone as long as he lives?*

............. The Law of Moses has a say over a person as long as they count themselves the ones alive and responsible for keeping it..............................

2*For example, a married woman is legally bound to her husband while he lives.

This is cut and dry. A "woman" (Eve and all her children) is born into death through the condemnation of the law, because of our propensity to sin. This is as surely as a woman is bound to her husband.

But if her husband dies, she is released from the law regarding the husband.

Is the marriage contract still binding once the husband does? Nope. What was the marriage certificate? The Law of Moses. Who made sure that the bride was punished for all her certificate infractions, Death (The Dragon)

3*So then, if she gives herself to another man while her husband is living, she will be called an adulteress.

If Eve (Humanity) is entered into marriage to God, through the Law of Sin and Death, she cannot approach God in any other manner and is held to the demands of that marital contract.

But if her husband dies, she is free from that law.

If the Husband of Law dies, she is free from all demands of that marital contract. God indeed died in the flesh, and freed all humanity from it's marriage to the Law of Sin and Death.

Then, if she gives herself to another man, she is not an adulteress.

Now that she is free, it would be wise for her to marry a wealthy Groom that encourages her freedom and well being. It would be wise that she marries out of LOVE.

So Sonnet, the genuine answer is in the relationship of mankind's choice to be married to Love and Freedom through the provision of God, or to choose Condemnation and Slavery through the effort of the flesh, per the judgment and curse of Moses.

We are not given the option to be Married to Moses and Jesus.

It's one or the other. They are two different husbands, with two different outcomes. By being married to one and then fooling around with the other, we become adulterous.

Also, to be under grace and adopt any teaching that infuses judgment, makes one a who're.

The word who're is thrown out more liberally in the Bible than a bunch of sailors telling jokes. Spoiler.... it's always about self righteous people that interfere with the Love and Timing of God.
,
How can I be so sure this is the actual answer?

Let's read contextually on....

4*Therefore, my brothers, you also were put to death*in relation to the lawthrough the crucified body of the Messiah,*so that you may belong to another—to Him who was raised from the dead—that we may bear fruit for God.*5*For when we were in the flesh, *the sinful passions operated through the law in every part of us*and bore fruit for death.*6*But now we have been released from the law, since we have died to what held us, so that we may serve in the new way*of the Spirit*and not in the old letter of the law.

............. It's impossible to miss. We either trust God completely and count ourselves grafted into His Love, or We try to muscle it out with our abusive husband that likes to point out how lacking we are and promises to completely destroy us one day.

We can't Love Jesus and be yoked to Him and fool around with Moses on the side.

Moses wins that one everytime.

We are stoned as whores.

We either sip the sweet, new wine with Jesus and enjoy that happy clean buzz, or we mess with Moses the littlest bit and find ourselves at he mercy of an abusive man that won't let us spend another second with our cherished bridegroom that would rather die than spend one moment without us.

............. It would be in our best interest to only trust the groom that is self sacrificing. Whether it is Moses, Calvin, Luther, Ellen White, or any other groom of sorta, or maybe just a fling, we are best to stick with the true Bride Groom that knows us for who we really are and loves us the same. He encourages us to grow in freedom and treat all of humanity with the same love and respect He treats us with.

................. There.... Straight answer and expanded on in context......

Sonnet?

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[Sonnet]

Romans 7 (HCSB)

An Illustration from Marriage

,7*Since I am speaking to those who understand law,
brothers,*are you unaware that the law has authority over
someone as long as he lives?*

............. The Law of Moses has a say over a person as long as they count themselves the ones alive and responsible for keeping it..............................

2*For example, a married woman is legally bound to her husband while he lives.

This is cut and dry. A "woman" (Eve and all her children) is born into death through the condemnation of the law, because of our propensity to sin. This is as surely as a woman is bound to her husband.

But if her husband dies, she is released from the law regarding the husband.

Is the marriage contract still binding once the husband does? Nope. What was the marriage certificate? The Law of Moses. Who made sure that the bride was punished for all her certificate infractions, Death (The Dragon)

3*So then, if she gives herself to another man while her husband is living, she will be called an adulteress.

If Eve (Humanity) is entered into marriage to God, through the Law of Sin and Death, she cannot approach God in any other manner and is held to the demands of that marital contract.

But if her husband dies, she is free from that law.

If the Husband of Law dies, she is free from all demands of that marital contract. God indeed died in the flesh, and freed all humanity from it's marriage to the Law of Sin and Death.

Then, if she gives herself to another man, she is not an adulteress.

Now that she is free, it would be wise for her to marry a wealthy Groom that encourages her freedom and well being. It would be wise that she marries out of LOVE.

So Sonnet, the genuine answer is in the relationship of mankind's choice to be married to Love and Freedom through the provision of God, or to choose Condemnation and Slavery through the effort of the flesh, per the judgment and curse of Moses.

We are not given the option to be Married to Moses and Jesus.

It's one or the other. They are two different husbands, with two different outcomes. By being married to one and then fooling around with the other, we become adulterous.

Also, to be under grace and adopt any teaching that infuses judgment, makes one a who're.

The word who're is thrown out more liberally in the Bible than a bunch of sailors telling jokes. Spoiler.... it's always about self righteous people that interfere with the Love and Timing of God.
,
How can I be so sure this is the actual answer?

Let's read contextually on....

4*Therefore, my brothers, you also were put to death*in relation to the lawthrough the crucified body of the Messiah,*so that you may belong to another—to Him who was raised from the dead—that we may bear fruit for God.*5*For when we were in the flesh, *the sinful passions operated through the law in every part of us*and bore fruit for death.*6*But now we have been released from the law, since we have died to what held us, so that we may serve in the new way*of the Spirit*and not in the old letter of the law.

............. It's impossible to miss. We either trust God completely and count ourselves grafted into His Love, or We try to muscle it out with our abusive husband that likes to point out how lacking we are and promises to completely destroy us one day.

We can't Love Jesus and be yoked to Him and fool around with Moses on the side.

Moses wins that one everytime.

We are stoned as whores.

We either sip the sweet, new wine with Jesus and enjoy that happy clean buzz, or we mess with Moses the littlest bit and find ourselves at he mercy of an abusive man that won't let us spend another second with our cherished bridegroom that would rather die than spend one moment without us.

............. It would be in our best interest to only trust the groom that is self sacrificing. Whether it is Moses, Calvin, Luther, Ellen White, or any other groom of sorta, or maybe just a fling, we are best to stick with the true Bride Groom that knows us for who we really are and loves us the same. He encourages us to grow in freedom and treat all of humanity with the same love and respect He treats us with.

................. There.... Straight answer and expanded on in context......

Sonnet?

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Thanks - this has always been my understanding of Paul's words.

 

[serpentdove]

off topic

You mock marriage like your father, the devil (Jn 8:44). Payday someday (Heb 13:4).

 

[serpentdove]

Philippians 2:5
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus

He makes two one (Gen. 2:18–24). Not three, not four--two = one (Mt 19:6). 2 Pet. 3:16

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

You mock marriage like your father, the devil (Jn 8:44). Payday someday (Heb 13:4).

Serpy,

I appreciate your humor, but your message is anchored in flesh.

You are indeed God's child, but beware the 30 pieces you believe will help your atonement.


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[Sonnet]

You mock marriage like your father, the devil (Jn 8:44). Payday someday (Heb 13:4).

Please quote me where I did so. serpentdove - you've misunderstood me.

 

[Sonnet]

He makes two one (Gen. 2:18–24). Not three, not four--two = one (Mt 19:6). 2 Pet. 3:16

What you assert is what I hope scripture affirms. I'm just not afraid to ask awkward questions.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Does Romans 7:1-3 affirm different rules for women and men regarding adultery?

He makes two one (Gen. 2:18–24). Not three, not four--two = one (Mt 19:6). 2 Pet. 3:16

What you assert is what I hope scripture affirms. I'm just not afraid to ask awkward questions.

1 John 2:2

He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for those of the whole world.

An early circular ichthys symbol, created by combining the Greek letters ΙΧΘΥΣ, Ephesus. ΙΧΘΥΣ (Ichthus) is a backronym/acrostic for "Ίησοῦς Χριστός, Θεοῦ Υἱός, Σωτήρ", (Iēsous Christos, Theou Yios, Sōtēr), which translates into English as "JesusChrist, Son of God, Saviour".

Well before Christianity, the fish symbol was known as "the Great Mother," a pointed oval sign, the "vesica piscis" or Vessel of the Fish. "Fish" and "womb" were synonymous terms in ancient Greek,"delphos." Its link to fertility, birth, feminine sexuality and the natural force of women was acknowledged also by the Celts, as well as pagan cultures throughout northern Europe. Eleanor Gaddon traces a "Cult of the Fish Mother" as far back as the hunting and fishing people of the Danube River Basin in the sixth millennium B.C.E. Over fifty shrines have been found throughout the region which depict a fishlike deity, a female creature who "incorporates aspects of an egg, a fish and a woman which could have been a primeval creator or a mythical ancestress..." The "Great Goddess" was portrayed elsewhere with pendulous breasts, accentuated buttocks and a conspicuous vaginal orifice, the upright "vesica piscis" which Christians later adopted and rotated 90-degrees to serve as their symbol.

Even "Wise Men" knew that God was going to Join with Humanity and a child of Children would be born.

Creation and Creator became One. Bride Groom embraced the Bride out of Love and a child was born.

The Jesus Fish is the symbol of the womb of Humanity, that resulted from The Bride and God Becoming One, in a spiritual sense.


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[Nameless.In.Grace]

He makes two one (Gen. 2:18–24). Not three, not four--two = one (Mt 19:6). 2 Pet. 3:16

Now tell me Serpy, how did the wise astrologers know Jesus was going to be born from simple star charts and studies?

Perhaps His divinity is far beyond our comprehension?

Psalm 19:1

For the director of music. A psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.


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[serpentdove]

...[H]ow did the wise astrologers know Jesus was going to be born from simple star charts and studies?

See:

How Did the Magi Know About Jesus? Matthew 2 Grace to You

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Does Romans 7:1-3 affirm different rules for women and men regarding adultery?

See:

How Did the Magi Know About Jesus? Matthew 2 Grace to You

Serpent Dove,

Thank you for the link.

It is fantastic. [emoji106][emoji106]

Grace to you, as well, my sibling in Jesus.


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[Flaminggg]

This is re Sonnet's post, which I couldn't trace down. But Paul is not validating multiple wives in the Rom 7 illustration!

I really don't know of any answer to the allowance for polygamy other than the casualties of war. while you are studying OT polygamy, you have to also work on the demographics of the lost males when you see what numbers are thrown into battles.

Not very much of this period has God's blessing, by the way. He didn't even want David to do a census. But He tolerated a lot. This is why it is very important to have closure to the whole old covenant system as the NT does. The believers who go around today with excitement about the land, temple, worship system of Israel aren't very realistic readers about the OT times.

I'm extremely stumped by your seeing polygamy in the NT, or more exactly, in NT period Judaism. There were no allowances for it in law. That's why the sharpest debate between Shammai and Hillel is not about polygamy but about remarriage, and serial is implied.

You would think that in I cor 7 there would be some discussion and there is not. Roman sexual practices were a completely different kind of problem, which one man--one woman also solved. There was bisexuality and cross-class sex that never 'counted' as adultery, because the servant/doulos class had no recourse.

Our Walk of Faith is not called "Adultery", we cannot serve two masters, that is why we are divided by the Impersonal Nature of the Written Word, and Due Process of the Law (which protects us from the Adultery God declared to the churches in his New Testament Wrath). We give our heart to Jesus, and we chastise our Person to his Glory by keeping our Person Holy. (that is apart of the reason why God changed the Second Commandment for the New Testament, the church fell on deaf ears, this is not attributed as sin for the Walk of Faith of individuals).

The Church's Walk of Faith is called "Adultery" in the New Testament. The Church is told to keep the Written Word, and to serve as an extension of the State, not as an Extension of the Elect/Believer (God changed the Second Commandment from "Love your Person as the Church", changed to, Love your Person as your Marriage to Jesus (which removes the Adultery of Intercession that God has enmity with in the New Testament).

Regarding the Individual's Walk of Faith (in the New Testament)
ROMANS 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
ROMANS 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear (Adultery); but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
ROMANS 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
ROMANS 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ (Rebuking Adultery); if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.

(Simplify) We are told to Fear God with all our Heart in the Old Testament, to Love our Person as the Church ......... We are told to Love Jesus/God with all our Heart in the New Testament, to Love our Person as the Marriage to Jesus (the Church is in enmity with our walk if faith in the New Testament for this reason alone) ..........................Therefore, If we are heirs with Jesus, we cannot be in adultery or have more than one wife, which is the Lord Jesus, that gives us his body to complete our testimony of him in the Old and New Testament, which completes our "Hearing of the Word" (You cannot offend the First Command to Love Jesus or the Second Commandment to Love Jesus as your Person, or you are in "Adultery", like the New Testament Church).

Regarding the Churches Walk of Faith (in the New Testament)
ROMANS 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope (Adultery),
ROMANS 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
ROMANS 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
ROMANS 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body (End of Adultery).

(Simplify) God pours his Wrath into the Churches, to Stop Satan from stealing Jesus away from our Hearts, because of this fact God makes the Churches subject to vanity in the New Testament.................God then declares in the Book of Revelation that he does away with his Wrath in the Churches to complete the Body of Jesus as the Head of the Church, which God postponed to deliver the elect/believer from the wiles of Satan that came alongside the appearance of Jesus in the New Testament.

"Casualties of Peace as the New Testament Allowance for Grace in the Churches"
I THESSALONIANS 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night (Adultery/Vanity).
I THESSALONIANS 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child (Allowance for Grace for the Church Under Adultery/Vanity); and they shall not escape.

God does not use the Churches to Solicit "Suffering and Pain" with the Elect/Believer by placing his Wrath into them for the New Testament, instead, God has called the Churches in the New Testament to Solicit Peace from the Nations, by enforcing the, "Impersonal Nature of his Written Word", and the "Due Processes of the Law" that God intended by bringing Adultery/Vanity into the Church, so that the Gospel could be poured out among the nations more abundantly. (It is only Self Evident, as we come closer to the End of Time that straight Suicide Initiatives of Genetic Dan as the marker for the completion of the Gospel's Program, challenges the peace and safety of the people in their obtainment of the promises the Gospel Affords among the Nations, not just Suicide by Antichrist, Lives Don't Matter Campaigns Promoting Suicide by Cop and Global Terrorism, but also False Witnessing about God's Word, to promote suffering and pain as a mechanism of debunking the acceptance of Jesus into our hearts as we are commanded).

God had to "UNBOUND", the Second Commandment's inclusion of the Church as an expression of our Person by pouring out his Wrath in order to complete the Trial of Faith, that Jesus intended for the New Testament, so that, our acceptance of Jesus into our hearts through the "Hearing of his Word", could not be challenged by the wiles of Satan, that much is true even now. (Not only does God use Euthanasia to stop those races of people from challenging the Authority of the Antichrist, but from time to time out of necessity you must do the same, as we patiently away the "Sign of Divorce", which is the Lord's Body that once again unites the Church as an Expression of our Person in our Walk of Faith, to complete the Gospel's Program with a final trial of faith including the nations)...........Love and Blessings (God Blesses our Work to placate the "Hearing of the Word", and God uses "Peace and Safety" to illustrate his mercy in debunking "Suffering and Pain" gospels that result from not accepting Jesus into our Heart, for those who don't and for those who cannot).

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Does Romans 7:1-3 affirm different rules for women and men regarding adultery?

Our Walk of Faith is not called "Adultery", we cannot serve two masters, that is why we are divided by the Impersonal Nature of the Written Word, and Due Process of the Law (which protects us from the Adultery God declared to the churches in his New Testament Wrath). We give our heart to Jesus, and we chastise our Person to his Glory by keeping our Person Holy. (that is apart of the reason why God changed the Second Commandment for the New Testament, the church fell on deaf ears, this is not attributed as sin for the Walk of Faith of individuals).

The Church's Walk of Faith is called "Adultery" in the New Testament. The Church is told to keep the Written Word, and to serve as an extension of the State, not as an Extension of the Elect/Believer (God changed the Second Commandment from "Love your Person as the Church", changed to, Love your Person as your Marriage to Jesus (which removes the Adultery of Intercession that God has enmity with in the New Testament).

Regarding the Individual's Walk of Faith (in the New Testament)
ROMANS 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
ROMANS 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear (Adultery); but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
ROMANS 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
ROMANS 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ (Rebuking Adultery); if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.

(Simplify) We are told to Fear God with all our Heart in the Old Testament, to Love our Person as the Church ......... We are told to Love Jesus/God with all our Heart in the New Testament, to Love our Person as the Marriage to Jesus (the Church is in enmity with our walk if faith in the New Testament for this reason alone) ..........................Therefore, If we are heirs with Jesus, we cannot be in adultery or have more than one wife, which is the Lord Jesus, that gives us his body to complete our testimony of him in the Old and New Testament, which completes our "Hearing of the Word" (You cannot offend the First Command to Love Jesus or the Second Commandment to Love Jesus as your Person, or you are in "Adultery", like the New Testament Church).

Regarding the Churches Walk of Faith (in the New Testament)
ROMANS 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,
ROMANS 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
ROMANS 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
ROMANS 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.




====EDITING====THANKS====

In the Love of person, are you extending it to self and ALL humanity?


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[Ben Masada]

Romans 7 An Illustration from Marriage 7*Since I am speaking to those who understand law, brothers,*are you unaware that the law has authority over someone as long as he lives?*

No, the Law is not a being with consciousness but the law-giver is. So what exercises the authority over a married woman is not the law but her husband.

The Law of Moses has a say over a person as long as they count themselves the ones alive and responsible for keeping it.

Again, my answer is negative. It is not the Law of Moses that has a say over me but the Law-Giver aka HaShem. As in the case of the married woman who achieves freedom from the law that keeps her subject to her husband with his death, we would be free of the Law only at the death of the Law-Giver which is HaShem but, since HaShem is immortal, the Law, as Jesus reminded us with, will stand until Heavens and earth pass away. (Matthew 5:17-19)Besides, the token of the Covenant at Sinai was the Law. That Covenant we made it with HaShem, not with Moses who was only the "go-between" aka the prophet at his work speaking for HaShem.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Does Romans 7:1-3 affirm different rules for women and men regarding adultery?

No, the Law is not a being with consciousness but the law-giver is. So what exercises the authority over a married woman is not the law but her husband.



Again, my answer is negative. It is not the Law of Moses that has a say over me but the Law-Giver aka HaShem. As in the case of the married woman who achieves freedom from the law that keeps her subject to her husband with his death, we would be free of the Law only at the death of the Law-Giver which is HaShem but, since HaShem is immortal, the Law, as Jesus reminded us with, will stands until Heavens and earth pass away.
(Matthew 5:17-19)

Love thy neighbor as thy self.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart.

What evil can Love do?

And Ben, you are not negative. You are the perpetually stubborn Jew that is as stubborn as me. [emoji846]

How could anyone get upset with you. [emoji1]


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