ECT Does grace make void the "Ten Commandments"?

[nikolai_42]

Do you think Paul would think so? What say you, MAD-ists?

I'm not MAD....but here's my take :

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jeremiah 31:33

I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 7:21-25

The promise to Israel of old is fulfilled in Christ. The Psalms have several instances of expression where this was either already the case with some or it was prophetic (Psalm 37:31 and 40:8, for example). And Isaiah equates righteousness with the Law of God in the heart (Isaiah 51:7). So the work spoken of by Jeremiah must be a Divine impartation of the effectual kind. The Law itself was already given, but it was merely a codification of that which can be known spiritually about God - His character and His standards. The Law given to Moses isn't that spiritual law any more than a picture of a building IS that building. That doesn't make the picture any less correct - but you can't walk around and do business inside a picture. Men certainly studied and meditated on the Law, but hiding it in one's heart and having it written on the heart are not quite the same thing. The latter actually is a native part of the man. It has roots down to the deepest parts of one's being.

So, when Paul speaks of this struggle, it isn't the same struggle men like David or Joseph would have had. Rather, it is evidence of that spiritual principle reflected in the Ten Commandments actually resident (and "at home) in the believer. It is there that a first hand knowledge of the holiness of God is had. It's manifestation is often something as simple as the voice of conscience. But since Christ, that voice is directly imparting that which the Mosaic Law could only reflect. One begins to understand more fully what is involved in the holiness of God and the life lived in obedience to Him.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
John 1:14-17

This, I think, is a large part of the illumination of the Holy Spirit. And that illumination grows as we work out what God has worked in. And the illumination is a growing understanding of and witness to the nature of God (and a resulting increase in the knowledge of the will of God).

 

[andyc]

The "do it or else" aspect of the law was nailed to the cross. The judicial, ceremonial, dietary, sacrificial etc aspects of the law were nailed to the cross.
However, morality was never introduced through Moses. And so the moral principles within the law still remain in our consciences.

Try telling the mads that abortion and homosexuality are no big deal LOL

 

[MAD Max]

The "do it or else" aspect of the law was nailed to the cross. The judicial, ceremonial, dietary, sacrificial etc aspects of the law were nailed to the cross.
However, morality was never introduced through Moses. And so the moral principles within the law still remain in our consciences.

Try telling the mads that abortion and homosexuality are no big deal LOL

No one has spoken against moral behavior, so this post of yours is just riddled with ignorance. Everyone (believers or unbelievers) are to exhibit moral behavior, and if they don't they should be punished (Rom 13). This has nothing to do with the 10 commandments (which are a ministry of condemnation and death) and which no believer is subject to for righteousness. You lack a basic understanding of the gospel, of the reason God gave the Law, and how those in Christ are to view the Law.

 

[Cross Reference]

The Ten Commandments and the disposition of Jesus Christ are synonymous.

 

[andyc]

No one has spoken against moral behavior, so this post of yours is just riddled with ignorance. Everyone (believers or unbelievers) are to exhibit moral behavior, and if they don't they should be punished (Rom 13). This has nothing to do with the 10 commandments (which are a ministry of condemnation and death) and which no believer is subject to for righteousness. You lack a basic understanding of the gospel, of the reason God gave the Law, and how those in Christ are to view the Law.

Nonsense
The law is good. It is the natural/flesh man that is weak. By removing the flesh in the way that God relates to man, all the faults and inadequacies that are brought to light by the law resulting in guilt, shame, and condemnation are wiped out once and for all. The believer can now look at his flesh and say, "I'm now relating to God in Spirit". Christ is the end of the law to all who believe.

 

[MAD Max]

What? Are you claiming we are children of Jesus? Are you claiming that the church will marry their father?

That's against the law.

Jesus called Himself God. That's the fact. Your perversion of that speaks to what kind of person you are, and does not change who Jesus is.

The Church is not the Bride Rev 21:2. Instead of you running around on the internet proving what an idiot you are, why not spend your time actually studying the texts you currently don't comprehend? Give special attention to Rev 21:8 & Rev 22:15 while you review Chapters 21 & 22 where Jesus calls Himself God (also see Rev 1:7-18 for confirmation).

 

[Hawkins]

Do you think Paul would think so? What say you, MAD-ists?

In concept, Grace is not in any rate to abolish the Law. Grace is for where you failed the law but God still can save you.

It's more of an amnesty from a court. You are pardoned but without abolishing the Law.

 

[MAD Max]

Nonsense

Never.

The law is good.

Already affirmed this in this thread. Go back and educate yourself.

It is the natural/flesh man that is weak.

Okay.

By removing the flesh in the way that God relates to man, all the faults and inadequacies that are brought to light by the law resulting in guilt, shame, and condemnation are wiped out once and for all.

Okay.

The believer can now look at his flesh and say, "I'm now relating to God in Spirit". Christ is the end of the law to all who believe.

Okay

Everything I said in this thread confirms all this, and I said nothing contrary to this in my previous post.

 

[JosephR]

Jesus called Himself God. That's the fact. Your perversion of that speaks to what kind of person you are, and does not change who Jesus is.



The Church is not the Bride Rev 21:2. Instead of you running around on the internet proving what an idiot you are, why not spend your time actually studying the texts you currently don't comprehend? Give special attention to Rev 21:8 & Rev 22:15 while you review Chapters 21 & 22 where Jesus calls Himself God (also see Rev 1:7-18 for confirmation).

Thru John, In prison, Jesus called Himself God?You would think He would mention that in His life....

He did however say He was the Messiah.

The conundrum is how can anyone be wrong saying Jesus is God?

The big problem for me is Jesus did not lie when He said He was Messiah. And Messiah was NEVER God. If Messiah is God then all the scriptures telling of Jesus for coming are wrong...I still don't see how it is wrong .... Except for that first commandment that God Himself wrote into stone and made a point to make it first.

 

[Cross Reference]

Nonsense
The law is good. It is the natural/flesh man that is weak. By removing the flesh in the way that God relates to man, all the faults and inadequacies that are brought to light by the law resulting in guilt, shame, and condemnation are wiped out once and for all. The believer can now look at his flesh and say, "I'm now relating to God in Spirit". Christ is the end of the law to all who believe.

Very good, however, lets by careful because by leaving out our love to Him as a necessary ingredient for success in dying to self, the enemy will exploit what is left of the truth of your post to his advantage by making it say it no longer matters, is ok for us to sin.

 

[andyc]

Never.
Already affirmed this in this thread. Go back and educate yourself. Okay. Okay. Okay

Everything I said in this thread confirms all this, and I said nothing contrary to this in my previous post.

The way you presented your point was to imply that the law is bad.

Everyone (believers or unbelievers) are to exhibit moral behavior, and if they don't they should be punished (Rom 13). This has nothing to do with the 10 commandments (which are a ministry of condemnation and death) and which no believer is subject to for righteousness.

This was a contradiction LOL
On the one hand you're agreeing with punishment for moral failure, which is the judicial aspect of the law, and then you say it has nothing to do with the 10 commandments. What does the word "commandment" mean?

You lack a basic understanding of the gospel, of the reason God gave the Law, and how those in Christ are to view the Law.

And this was also nonsense.

 

[andyc]

Very good, however, lets by careful because by leaving out our love to Him as a necessary ingredient for success in dying to self, the enemy will exploit what is left of the truth of your post to his advantage by making it say it no longer matters, is ok for us to sin.

Yes it presupposes that people truly are born of the Spirit as per Romans 8, and have therefore come out of Romans 7.

Galatians 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

It is walking in the Spirit that keeps us from indulging the flesh.

 

[MAD Max]

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid, yea, we establish the law. (Romans 3:31)​

This is one of my favorite verses in the Bible and confirms that the Law does what God intended it to do. The Law is given to prove that we are sinners Rom 7:7, so that we will not trust in the Law for righteousness, but will come to Christ by faith. Faith does not make the Law void, it establishes the Law to lead us to faith Gal 3:24 The Law is not of faith Gal 3:12

 

[jamie]

The Church is not the Bride Rev 21:2.

And the Spirit and the bride say come. (Revelation 22:17)
​

So who is the bride?

 

[Cross Reference]

The conundrum is how can anyone be wrong saying Jesus is God?

Wrap the question in a time frame as to when it becomes a conundrum, i.e., was He always God when on earth needs to be addressed [without religious agendas getting in the way] because of the influence on our understanding God's ultimate intention for having created man..

 

[MAD Max]

The way you presented your point was to imply that the law is bad.

It is if one uses it unlawfully.

"But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully" 1 Tim 1:8

This was a contradiction LOL
On the one hand you're agreeing with punishment for moral failure, which is the judicial aspect of the law, and then you say it has nothing to do with the 10 commandments. What does the word "commandment" mean?

No, idiot, it's no where near a contradiction. You simply cannot discern between human authority and laws, rules, and regulations in order to bring fear to those who practice evil behavior, and the Law of God which was given to bring men to the knowledge of sin. Mixing the two is why you are a mess.

 

[MAD Max]

And the Spirit and the bride say come. (Revelation 22:17)
​

So who is the bride?

I gave you the verse, just read it.

 

[Cross Reference]

Yes it presupposes that people truly are born of the Spirit as per Romans 8, and have therefore come out of Romans 7.

Galatians 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

It is walking in the Spirit that keeps us from indulging the flesh.

Amen! I am given to understand Romans 8 to be the Spiritual promised land. cf Deut 6:7-14.

 

[Cross Reference]

It is if one uses it unlawfully.

"But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully" 1 Tim 1:8


No, idiot, it's no where near a contradiction. You simply cannot discern between human authority and laws, rules, and regulations in order to bring fear to those who practice evil behavior, and the Law of God which was given to bring men to the knowledge of sin. Mixing the two is why you are a mess.

HEY! YOU! Lets quit with the SNOT talk or suffer everyones ignore list.

 

[MAD Max]

And the Spirit and the bride say come. (Revelation 22:17)
​

So who is the bride?

There is also this:

'“Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb". And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God"