Right Divider
Body part
God became flesh. Christ is God.
Does God forgive and forget our sins?
- Thread starter oatmeal
- Start date
oatmeal
Well-known member
Why do you contradict scripture and yourself?
Right Divider
Body part
You're a funny guy.
I hope that you come to faith someday.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Yes, I have a sense of humor
I have already received the measure of faith.
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Right Divider
Body part
Even when you don't realize it.
You have a false faith if you do not believe that Christ is God.
https://theologyonline.com/threads/what-is-jesus-saying-here.54794/post-1780982
oatmeal
Well-known member
According to your opinion and misrepresentation and private interpretation of scripture, yes.
According to scripture alone, NO.
Right Divider
Body part
I gave you clear and unambiguous scripture. Nothing the slightest bit "misrepresented" or "privately interpreted" about it.
I can always tell when someone disagrees with scripture. They make NO attempt whatsoever to address the SCRIPTURE. They just give their unjustified and baseless criticism.
NathanMcG
New member
I agree that God does not forget our sins in a literal sense.
Summary: When God ‘remembers’ things in the Bible, it is clear that he had not previously ‘forgotten’ them, and therefore that ‘remember’ means something more like ‘to bring to mind’, and nearly always precedes some kind of loving or blessing. To ‘remember sins no more’ therefore doesn’t mean to literally forget that they exist or were done, but to cease considering them or thinking of them.
The experiential outcome is the same... God has fully forgiven and no longer cares about our confessed sins.
Breakdown:
I think the two keys in this debate are:
1. Biblical: Isaiah 43:25 and Hebrews 8:12 promise God will ‘remember our sins no more.’ - This is what triggers in some the belief that God literally forgets our sins, to the degree that He no longer knows they occurred.
2. Logical: Is it logical that God literally forgets our sins?
Let’s quickly break this down:
Firstly, regarding point 1, the critical message in the scripture is that God’s dealing with our sins is so strong, that he not only forgives them, but ceases to even think about them or consider them. If even God doesn’t think about our confessed sins, we certainly need not dwell on them ourselves. ‘Forget’ (figuratively) about them and leave them behind you. They’re dealt with.
The non-critical topic here is does God literally forget the sins? I call this non-critical, because it doesn’t have much effect on our experience. Although I’ve heard of someone condemning himself for not being able to fully forgive someone, thinking they had failed to do so because they couldn’t ‘forget’ the offence. This does show that this teaching can have an experiential effect on a believer.
Regarding point 2, I believe it is not logical that literally forgets our sins. God knows our thoughts; if we think of our sins, is God reminded about them and has to forget them again? Or more directly, does God forget his own word (the Bible), where all the transgressions and sins of Israel are recorded through inspiration from God Himself?
Theological truth is logical (it can be mysterious, and not understood, but should never defy logic). So if a teaching seems illogical, it prompts interrogation. And logical or not, I believe this is made clear in scripture anyway:
The key realisation to solve this puzzle easily, is to learn what remember or remembrance means in the Bible. This should antonymously show us what it means to cease remembering something:
Genesis 8:1, “God remembered Noah and all the wild animals and the livestock that were with him in the ark,” and sent a wind that caused the floodwaters to recede.
In Genesis 30:22, we are told, “God remembered Rachel,” Jacob’s wife, and “enabled her to conceive.” Her child, Joseph, was a man of God who saved His people even after they sold him into Egyptian slavery.
In Exodus 2:24, God heard the groaning of His people, Israel, who were slaves in Egypt, and “He remembered His covenant with Abraham, with Isaac and with Jacob,”
It’s very clear in these few examples that God had not literally ‘forgotten’ the things which were being remembered (Noah, the wild animals, Rachel, His covenant with Abraham). Rather He was not actively caring for them in the particular way mentioned after the ‘remembering’.
Therefore, remembering here is more of a ‘bringing something to mind’ or ‘considering and caring for’.
Now that we can comfortably see that remembrance is not a literal “Oh! That’s right! I forgot about that!”, combined with the clarification that literal forgetting of sins by God would not be logical, we can conclude that ‘remember no more’ in Isaiah 43:25 and Hebrews 8:12 means that God will no longer consider, think about or care about our forgiven sins.
I hope the examples of remembrance are helpful to people.
I must emphasise that the message and strength of the word remains the same.
Summary: When God ‘remembers’ things in the Bible, it is clear that he had not previously ‘forgotten’ them, and therefore that ‘remember’ means something more like ‘to bring to mind’, and nearly always precedes some kind of loving or blessing. To ‘remember sins no more’ therefore doesn’t mean to literally forget that they exist or were done, but to cease considering them or thinking of them.
The experiential outcome is the same... God has fully forgiven and no longer cares about our confessed sins.
Breakdown:
I think the two keys in this debate are:
1. Biblical: Isaiah 43:25 and Hebrews 8:12 promise God will ‘remember our sins no more.’ - This is what triggers in some the belief that God literally forgets our sins, to the degree that He no longer knows they occurred.
2. Logical: Is it logical that God literally forgets our sins?
Let’s quickly break this down:
Firstly, regarding point 1, the critical message in the scripture is that God’s dealing with our sins is so strong, that he not only forgives them, but ceases to even think about them or consider them. If even God doesn’t think about our confessed sins, we certainly need not dwell on them ourselves. ‘Forget’ (figuratively) about them and leave them behind you. They’re dealt with.
The non-critical topic here is does God literally forget the sins? I call this non-critical, because it doesn’t have much effect on our experience. Although I’ve heard of someone condemning himself for not being able to fully forgive someone, thinking they had failed to do so because they couldn’t ‘forget’ the offence. This does show that this teaching can have an experiential effect on a believer.
Regarding point 2, I believe it is not logical that literally forgets our sins. God knows our thoughts; if we think of our sins, is God reminded about them and has to forget them again? Or more directly, does God forget his own word (the Bible), where all the transgressions and sins of Israel are recorded through inspiration from God Himself?
Theological truth is logical (it can be mysterious, and not understood, but should never defy logic). So if a teaching seems illogical, it prompts interrogation. And logical or not, I believe this is made clear in scripture anyway:
The key realisation to solve this puzzle easily, is to learn what remember or remembrance means in the Bible. This should antonymously show us what it means to cease remembering something:
Genesis 8:1, “God remembered Noah and all the wild animals and the livestock that were with him in the ark,” and sent a wind that caused the floodwaters to recede.
In Genesis 30:22, we are told, “God remembered Rachel,” Jacob’s wife, and “enabled her to conceive.” Her child, Joseph, was a man of God who saved His people even after they sold him into Egyptian slavery.
In Exodus 2:24, God heard the groaning of His people, Israel, who were slaves in Egypt, and “He remembered His covenant with Abraham, with Isaac and with Jacob,”
It’s very clear in these few examples that God had not literally ‘forgotten’ the things which were being remembered (Noah, the wild animals, Rachel, His covenant with Abraham). Rather He was not actively caring for them in the particular way mentioned after the ‘remembering’.
Therefore, remembering here is more of a ‘bringing something to mind’ or ‘considering and caring for’.
Now that we can comfortably see that remembrance is not a literal “Oh! That’s right! I forgot about that!”, combined with the clarification that literal forgetting of sins by God would not be logical, we can conclude that ‘remember no more’ in Isaiah 43:25 and Hebrews 8:12 means that God will no longer consider, think about or care about our forgiven sins.
I hope the examples of remembrance are helpful to people.
I must emphasise that the message and strength of the word remains the same.
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oatmeal
Well-known member
You stated that very well. Thank you!
for God to be able to care for his people as they apparent with his children,
God would have to remember the errors of their past not to hold it against them but to properly warn them against repeating past mistakes.
When I would take my son out and pitch balls to him to have him practice batting I would remind him don't look at anything else keep your eye on the ball you'll hit the ball if you know where it is but if you look at anything else you're swinging at nothing.
We too must recognize our errors in the past in order to correct our processes in dealing with situations.
Maybe to add another perspective to your insight on the word remember we could emphasize the fact that when God remembers something he is about to embark on action on the behalf of those whom he remembers again I think I'm simply restating something you already said but sometimes saying it in a different way catches other people's attention.
I think it's also no worthy to remember that every language and culture has its own idioms and colloquial expressions that may not be literally true to fact but in that culture expresses something much deeper than the actual literal words do.
Even in our own English or maybe I should say American culture we have expressions such as, he bought the farm,. Or he cashed in his chips.
Which to a foreigner might seem like a positive thing yet meaning is entirely negative ie a person died.
We see many examples of cultural mannerisms in the Bible that differ from Western culture.
It is only in learning the Bible culture that we can begin to understand some of the teachings of Jesus Christ's parables for instance as well as words and phrase used to describe other records in God's word.
For instance Rshab is considered to be a harlot.
She was not a harlot she was an innkeeper.
The term harlot was used of any woman that did not wear a veil over her face.
As a business woman it was important that people see her face in order to do business with her as an innkeeper.
She was not a prostitute as many have assumed but simply was a businesswoman who's honesty and forthrightness required that she not wear a veil in the process of conducting business so that people could see her face.
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OZOS
Well-known member
As of this moment, it's a non-issue for you.
"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins." Jn 8:24
oatmeal
Well-known member
OZOS
Well-known member
I'm only saying to you, what Jesus says to you. Unless you believe that He is God in the flesh, you will die in your sins.
"By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God"
The underlined is not in the Bible. Are you claiming special revelation?
This translation was from trinitarians:
1 John 4:2-3 NLT
This is how we know if they have the Spirit of God: If a person claiming to be a prophet acknowledges that Jesus Christ came in a real body, that person has the Spirit of God. [3] But if someone claims to be a prophet and does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus, that person is not from God. Such a person has the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard is coming into the world and indeed is already here.
There is nothing about Jesus being God.
To help you with the translation you are reading, I will emphasize the subordinate clause.
"By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit (that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh) is from God"
Spirit refers to prophets in this case. John is concerned with people claiming Jesus was not human. Those prophets who do not acknowledge Jesus is human are not from God.
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OZOS
Well-known member
No, I'm claiming that Jesus is God, as does the Bible. Those who say He is not God, will hear Him say "I never knew you".
The underlined is not in the Bible. Are you claiming special revelation?
Are you planning to take your Bible with you to heaven?
I have kids, I forgot a lot of errors they made when younger. I suppose I could dredge them up but that serves no purpose.
This is the sole verse used to say God forgets sin. Although many translations don't put this in verse form, they do put the quote of this passage in Hebrews in verse form. So, this verse has at least two Hebrew couplets.
First couplet.
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD
for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD
Notice how one emphasizes the other.
Second couplet.
for I will forgive their iniquity,
and I will remember their sin no more
So, the second one is a re-emphasis of the first in this as well. The emphasis is that sin will truly be forgiven and not in any way held against them. I do not believe the intention of the writer was to say God forgets things.
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OZOS
Well-known member
No, I'm claiming what Jesus said. He said He is God. I believe Him, you do not.
No he didn't. Why are you putting words in Jesus' mouth? Or did you receive a special revelation?