Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

[Rosenritter]

That's nothing but a trumped up claim produced by biased people such as yourself who dug up a bit of alleged history. The fact of the matter is that Calvin is not seen as a wicked man, and is rather venerated respectively in the very places of his initial influence.

Calvin is seen as a wicked man.

 

[Rosenritter]

Servetus was a criminal, as heresy was a crime.
It was punishable by anything from probation to death.

Religious mutiny is a constant danger in a world ruled by religion.

John Calvin was a criminal, as heresy was a crime. It was punishable by anything from probation to death. He staged religious mutiny against the church catholic. Your defense of John Calvin is hypocritical.

 

[Rosenritter]

Not "those." Only one, Roasted Servetus by name.

And Calvin did not want him burned at the stake and attempted to have that stopped. Calvin was overruled by the Council and it was on their orders that Servetus was burned alive. Calvin objected to the burning up to the very end. It was not Calvin's desire to see Servetus burned at the stake.

Moreover, Calvin has to be evaluated, on this issue, by the period of time in which he lived. Calvin did not live in modern times and it was common practice in the age of Calvin to burn criminals at the stake. You have to judge them ALL who lived in that age and approved of such as the barbarous execution of burning alive at the stake.

Calvin wrote to Farel on the day before Servetus' execution, "Tomorrow Servetus will be led out to execution. We have done our best to change the kind of death, but in vain."
Source: Loraine Boettner, The Reformed Doctrine Of Predestination, chapter titled The History Of Calvinism, page 417

Calvin didn't want Servetus to live, he objected that the method was burning. The reason Calvin wanted his method changed was because burning was the sentence for religious sentencing. The reason Servetus was sentenced to be burned was because Calvin has accused him on religious grounds and religious grounds only. Calvin wanted him dead, but then he realized that when the method was burning, it pointed the finger at him (and rightly so) as to who was responsible for his killing.

 

[Rosenritter]

I have no opinion on the results you received. They are for you and you alone. If you do not like the results examine yourself, not me.

The discussion is about labels commonly assigned to one's system of beliefs. A simple survey of one's beliefs will always result in a label, as the one you took plainly evidences. That you do not like the label does not mean the label is not appropriate for the given set of questions asked and answered. When receiving the label and then to go off criticizing the method with silly complaints is poisoning the well of the the discussion at hand. Rather than dealing with the label assigned, you prefer to cavil against the very instrument such that you can divorce yourself from its conclusions and be the cause that no one else will take the instrument under consideration. That is the very definition of what poisoning the well means.

Get it now?

This continued back and forth only validates my previous suggestion that you take the time to actually write down what you believe about the many doctrinal matters found in Scripture. When you do so, a picture will emerge of the systematic views you hold. If you share that with another I am quite confident a label can be affixed to it, too.

Scripture contains various categories of doctrine:

1) Theology proper (doctrine of God, the Trinity—my specialty)
2) Revelation (general and special)
3) Creation, Providence
4) Anthropology (man)
5) Hamartiology (sin)
6) Soteriology (salvation)
7) Ecclesiology (the church)
8) Eschatology (last things)
9) Ethics
10) Apologetics

Knowing what and why one believes about each of these categories serves to strengthen one's walk of faith.

AMR

How ironic. Someone that claims a specialty in "Theology Proper, the Trinity" is utterly unable to discuss the subject to either substantiate, support, or prove it upon request.

 

[Rosenritter]

Can you tell me what you believe that Paul meant when he said this? And in which title or position is Christ in, in relation to God according Paul?

1 Corinthians 11:3

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is.the man; and the head of Christ is God.

It wouldn't be a perfect analogy by anyone's measure, unless you think that women are married to men who are married to Christ who are married to God. I believe the purpose and meaning of that passage is that if you are following Christ you are following God. There's an order to things.

As such someone who would say "I refuse to follow Christ, but I follow God" would fall outside of this order.

Likewise, following Christ does not take you outside the domain of God. In fact, it is the intended order of things that we shall follow God by accepting Christ.

It creates no dilemma that Christ was God manifest in the flesh, equal with God, and as Thomas so well put it, "Our Lord and our God." But we are to follow God as he wants us to follow him. In this case, as he has revealed himself by his name Jesus.

 

[marhig]

It wouldn't be a perfect analogy by anyone's measure, unless you think that women are married to men who are married to Christ who are married to God. I believe the purpose and meaning of that passage is that if you are following Christ you are following God. There's an order to things.

As such someone who would say "I refuse to follow Christ, but I follow God" would fall outside of this order.

Likewise, following Christ does not take you outside the domain of God. In fact, it is the intended order of things that we shall follow God by accepting Christ.

It creates no dilemma that Christ was God manifest in the flesh, equal with God, and as Thomas so well put it, "Our Lord and our God." But we are to follow God as he wants us to follow him. In this case, as he has revealed himself by his name Jesus.

I have to disagree, to me when Paul says that God is the head of Christ, he means just that, and when Jesus says that God is his God, he means just that, and when the apostles say that God is the God of Jesus Christ they means just that.

But, I wouldn't judge another person regardless, only God can judge any of us.

If there was someone who believed in the trinity, yet their heart was wrong and they loved their life in the flesh, putting themselves first before God. Then you had someone else who doesn't believe in the trinity. But is humble, has truly repented, follows Jesus, has faith and loves God with all their heart, living to do his will. Which one would be more justified before God? (Also it's the same vice versa).

Then take all those from all denominations who, through Christ have faith, who are walking in the spirit, who are truly living by the will of God and love him from their hearts, those who are trying to deny themselves and are turning from sin and obeying God and Christ, and you have the body of Christ. They are those who the have the spirit of Christ in and through them who are worshipping God in spirit and truth, who are doers of the word not hearers only. It's not what denomination we are in, it's the heart that counts.

I believe that God looks at the heart and he knows who are truly his.

1 John 4

Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Romans 10

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved

Acts 16

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 John 5

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

I believe in all the above verses, nowhere in the Bible does it say that i must believe that Jesus is God, or That I must believe in the trinity to belong to God.

And I do believe that Jesus is the Christ, and that he is the son of God and I believe in my heart that God has raised him from the dead.

Jesus said life eternal is this, to know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent. And I believe him and i do know them, and I believe that God will judge me on what I have heard and by what I do in relation to that, and in how treat others and in how I live before him.

 

[TulipBee]

It's not the baptism of water that brings us out of sin, it's true repentance, faith and the baptism of the holy spirit. When John baptised people, they had to first repent, and once they repented they were saved from their past sins. The holy spirit within works on our heart, putting our flesh to death and saves us from sinning every day. Without the holy spirit we are not alive in God, Christ should be manifest in us and through us, God wants to see the life of Christ lived out in his people every day. We can talk the right talk all day long, but it means nothing if we're not living right before God and walking the walk!

And if we have the holy spirit, we wouldn't will the death of anyone. We would care for others and help them. Regardless of who they are!

It wasn't for Calvin to seek out people who opposed infant baptism or who opposed any of his beliefs. If he was a true man of God, he would have left God to judge others and his main aim would have been to bring Christ to others and preach the gospel showing love compassion to others, not hatred, malice and murder!

Also, a baby may well be in sinful flesh, but a baby has never sinned and is innocent. How can a baby be baptised seeing as it hasn't yet sinned? Also, how can a child who doesn't yet understand sin, repent?

What did Jesus repent of when he was baptized by john?

 

[popsthebuilder]

What did Jesus repent of when he was baptized by john?

Baptism is a sign that signifies the newness of the vessel, the temple rightly built up for the praise of GOD alone.

It is a sign of the circumcision of the Spirit, and the cutting away of the bindings of the wants of the flesh.

Even in the case of Jesus the Christ; baptism by John was a sign for the sake of creation, not that the Christ was ever with sin, but further showing of such by means that man can know.

In the case of man it is equal to an oath and as such shouldn't be yoked to the shoulders of an infant.

I must admit; this is only my humble, perhaps partial understanding of baptism.

Peace

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk

 

[TulipBee]

Calvin didn't want Servetus to live, he objected that the method was burning. The reason Calvin wanted his method changed was because burning was the sentence for religious sentencing. The reason Servetus was sentenced to be burned was because Calvin has accused him on religious grounds and religious grounds only. Calvin wanted him dead, but then he realized that when the method was burning, it pointed the finger at him (and rightly so) as to who was responsible for his killing.

Killed for not yielding to the twisted doctrine of the ancient Roman Catholic Church and the Papacy. Christians didn't kill this man any more than the "Jews" killed Jesus. The Romans and the Catholic Church did. Rome was known for its love of violence*and death. Killing in the name of God went out of use as the society of the West and Christianity evolved. But some religions today still have people living like murderous subhuman animals! Jews call this blood lust the evil inclination or Yetser Hara. Humanity needs to overcome its tendency towards violence.

 

[TulipBee]

ON THIS DAY IN HISTORY – On 27th October, 1553 AD, Michael*Servetuswas condemned as a heretic and burned at the stake just outside Geneva. Michael*Servetus*was a Spanish theologian, physician, cartographer, and Renaissance humanist. He was the first European to correctly describe the function of pulmonary circulation. He was also a polymath versed in many sciences: mathematics, astronomy and meteorology, geography, human anatomy, medicine and pharmacology, as well as jurisprudence, translation, poetry and the scholarly study of the Bible in its original languages. Despite his contribution to these fields,*Servetus*was condemned as a heretic for denying the Trinity.*Servetus*rejected the classical conception of the Trinity, stating that it was not based on the Bible, and instead arose from teachings of Greek philosophers.*Servetus*hoped that the dismissal of the trinitarian dogma would make Christianity more appealing to believers in Judaism and Islam, which had preserved the unity of God in their teachings.*Servetuswas also accused of being homosexual, on the basis of the fact that he had not yet married. --------------->The chief prosecutor<-------------, on the question of his marriage stated “if he answers that he has not, he shall be asked why, in consideration of his age, he could refrain so long from marriage."*Servetuswas denied the ‘privilege’ of a quick death by decapitation and was ordered to be burned at the stake on 27th October, 1553.

 

[Clete]

I have to disagree, to me when Paul says that God is the head of Christ, he means just that, and when Jesus says that God is his God, he means just that, and when the apostles say that God is the God of Jesus Christ they means just that.

But, I wouldn't judge another person regardless, only God can judge any of us.

If there was someone who believed in the trinity, yet their heart was wrong and they loved their life in the flesh, putting themselves first before God. Then you had someone else who doesn't believe in the trinity. But is humble, has truly repented, follows Jesus, has faith and loves God with all their heart, living to do his will. Which one would be more justified before God? (Also it's the same vice versa).

Then take all those from all denominations who, through Christ have faith, who are walking in the spirit, who are truly living by the will of God and love him from their hearts, those who are trying to deny themselves and are turning from sin and obeying God and Christ, and you have the body of Christ. They are those who the have the spirit of Christ in and through them who are worshipping God in spirit and truth, who are doers of the word not hearers only. It's not what denomination we are in, it's the heart that counts.

I believe that God looks at the heart and he knows who are truly his.

1 John 4

Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Romans 10

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved

Acts 16

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 John 5

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

I believe in all the above verses, nowhere in the Bible does it say that i must believe that Jesus is God, or That I must believe in the trinity to belong to God.

And I do believe that Jesus is the Christ, and that he is the son of God and I believe in my heart that God has raised him from the dead.

Jesus said life eternal is this, to know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent. And I believe him and i do know them, and I believe that God will judge me on what I have heard and by what I do in relation to that, and in how treat others and in how I live before him.

I'm going to prove to you that Jesus is God. This will be more than a mere biblical argument, it will be a biblical PROOF.
We'll then see where your rejection of Jesus' diety is rooted....

The bible CLEARLY states that Jesus created the Universe and everything in it.

Colossians 1:15 He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For BY Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

John 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own[d] did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Isaiah 45:Truly You are God, who hide Yourself,
O God of Israel, the Savior!
16 They shall be ashamed
And also disgraced, all of them;
They shall go in confusion together,
Who are makers of idols.
17 But Israel shall be saved by the Lord
With an everlasting salvation;
You shall not be ashamed or disgraced
Forever and ever.

18 For thus says the Lord,
Who created the heavens,
Who is God,
Who formed the earth and made it,
Who has established it,
Who did not create it in vain,
Who formed it to be inhabited:
“I am the Lord, and there is no other.​

The bible teaches two undeniable things...

1. That God created the universe.
2. That Jesus created the universe.

If Jesus is the Creator, He is God. Like it or lump it.
If you deny it, its for reasons other than an allegiance to God's word and a willingness to submit yourself to its clear teaching.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I'm going to prove to you that Jesus is God. This will be more than a mere biblical argument, it will be a biblical PROOF.
We'll then see where your rejection of Jesus' diety is rooted....

The bible CLEARLY states that Jesus created the Universe and everything in it.

Colossians 1:15 He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For BY Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

John 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own[d] did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Isaiah 45:Truly You are God, who hide Yourself,
O God of Israel, the Savior!
16 They shall be ashamed
And also disgraced, all of them;
They shall go in confusion together,
Who are makers of idols.
17 But Israel shall be saved by the Lord
With an everlasting salvation;
You shall not be ashamed or disgraced
Forever and ever.

18 For thus says the Lord,
Who created the heavens,
Who is God,
Who formed the earth and made it,
Who has established it,
Who did not create it in vain,
Who formed it to be inhabited:
“I am the Lord, and there is no other.​

The bible teaches two undeniable things...

1. That God created the universe.
2. That Jesus created the universe.

If Jesus is the Creator, He is God. Like it or lump it.
If you deny it, its for reasons other than an allegiance to God's word and a willingness to submit yourself to its clear teaching.

Resting in Him,
Clete

Good post.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I'm going to prove to you that Jesus is God. This will be more than a mere biblical argument, it will be a biblical PROOF.
We'll then see where your rejection of Jesus' diety is rooted....

The bible CLEARLY states that Jesus created the Universe and everything in it.

Colossians 1:15 He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For BY Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

John 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own[d] did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Isaiah 45:Truly You are God, who hide Yourself,
O God of Israel, the Savior!
16 They shall be ashamed
And also disgraced, all of them;
They shall go in confusion together,
Who are makers of idols.
17 But Israel shall be saved by the Lord
With an everlasting salvation;
You shall not be ashamed or disgraced
Forever and ever.

18 For thus says the Lord,
Who created the heavens,
Who is God,
Who formed the earth and made it,
Who has established it,
Who did not create it in vain,
Who formed it to be inhabited:
“I am the Lord, and there is no other.​

The bible teaches two undeniable things...

1. That God created the universe.
2. That Jesus created the universe.

If Jesus is the Creator, He is God. Like it or lump it.
If you deny it, its for reasons other than an allegiance to God's word and a willingness to submit yourself to its clear teaching.

Resting in Him,
Clete

Yet the Christ can still be the Alpha (first born) and the Omega( the final judge of all) without being considered the coeternal utter fullness of GOD and man.

The Holy Spirit that filled the Christ, Jesus was the first creation and all other creation was of that spirit which is GOD. GOD also appointed the Christ as the final judge and that same spirit is the Omega.

Is that nonsense or deemed heretical by the orthodox Christian?

Peace

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk

 

[marhig]

ON THIS DAY IN HISTORY – On 27th October, 1553 AD, Michael*Servetuswas condemned as a heretic and burned at the stake just outside Geneva. Michael*Servetus*was a Spanish theologian, physician, cartographer, and Renaissance humanist. He was the first European to correctly describe the function of pulmonary circulation. He was also a polymath versed in many sciences: mathematics, astronomy and meteorology, geography, human anatomy, medicine and pharmacology, as well as jurisprudence, translation, poetry and the scholarly study of the Bible in its original languages. Despite his contribution to these fields,*Servetus*was condemned as a heretic for denying the Trinity.*Servetus*rejected the classical conception of the Trinity, stating that it was not based on the Bible, and instead arose from teachings of Greek philosophers.*Servetus*hoped that the dismissal of the trinitarian dogma would make Christianity more appealing to believers in Judaism and Islam, which had preserved the unity of God in their teachings.*Servetuswas also accused of being homosexual, on the basis of the fact that he had not yet married. --------------->The chief prosecutor<-------------, on the question of his marriage stated “if he answers that he has not, he shall be asked why, in consideration of his age, he could refrain so long from marriage."*Servetuswas denied the ‘privilege’ of a quick death by decapitation and was ordered to be burned at the stake on 27th October, 1553.

What's your point? And why was he worthy of death? Because he didn't believe in the trinity? Do you agree with his murder and all the other murders and persecutions that Calvin put his hand to? I'm absolutely amazed that people who say they love God could defend such a cruel man.

Do you believe that it is right to kill those who don't believe in the trinity?

 

[marhig]

I'm going to prove to you that Jesus is God. This will be more than a mere biblical argument, it will be a biblical PROOF.
We'll then see where your rejection of Jesus' diety is rooted....

The bible CLEARLY states that Jesus created the Universe and everything in it.

Colossians 1:15 He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For BY Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

John 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own[d] did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Isaiah 45:Truly You are God, who hide Yourself,
O God of Israel, the Savior!
16 They shall be ashamed
And also disgraced, all of them;
They shall go in confusion together,
Who are makers of idols.
17 But Israel shall be saved by the Lord
With an everlasting salvation;
You shall not be ashamed or disgraced
Forever and ever.

18 For thus says the Lord,
Who created the heavens,
Who is God,
Who formed the earth and made it,
Who has established it,
Who did not create it in vain,
Who formed it to be inhabited:
“I am the Lord, and there is no other.​

The bible teaches two undeniable things...

1. That God created the universe.
2. That Jesus created the universe.

If Jesus is the Creator, He is God. Like it or lump it.
If you deny it, its for reasons other than an allegiance to God's word and a willingness to submit yourself to its clear teaching.

Resting in Him,
Clete

Clete I'm just cleaning, then I have to cook tea, I will look at your post properly tonight.

 

[Crucible]

John Calvin was a criminal, as heresy was a crime. It was punishable by anything from probation to death. He staged religious mutiny against the church catholic. Your defense of John Calvin is hypocritical.

And the Founding Fathers of America were criminals guilty of treason, and they nonetheless prosecuted betrayers. Guess that makes them hypocrites as well :idunno:

 

[Crucible]

I believe you're 1/2 Catholic and 1/2 Calvinist. That's why you're so confused.

Luther and Calvin held to infant baptism- the only one's who do not are fundies who mostly find no problem nonetheless with baptizing twelve year olds, as if it's really appropriate even then according to their ideology :wave2:

 

[TulipBee]

What's your point? And why was he worthy of death? Because he didn't believe in the trinity? Do you agree with his murder and all the other murders and persecutions that Calvin put his hand to? I'm absolutely amazed that people who say they love God could defend such a cruel man.

Do you believe that it is right to kill those who don't believe in the trinity?

Servetus supported Islam with his antitrinitarianism. Christians killed bin laden and his supporters. Drumming up support that Calvin killed people is like Americans killings in today's wars. Your taxes supports the killings. You're just as guilty as Calvin. You help kill heritics without knowing it or at least hidding behind it all.

 

[TulipBee]

How many peligians and anti peligians killed who they thought was heritics?

 

[marhig]

Servetus supported Islam with his antitrinitarianism. Christians killed bin laden and his supporters. Drumming up support that Calvin killed people is like Americans killings in today's wars. Your taxes supports the killings. You're just as guilty as Calvin. You help kill heritics without knowing it or at least hidding behind it all.

You didn't answer my question, do you think it's right to kill those who don't believe in the trinity?