Do we have the inspired Word of God today?

[SwordOfTruth]

Answered by others here, but quite frankly, it's not what someONE determines, but what is allowed by the context.

But any context is of itself, just more translated text. So if the translation is wrong then both the message and the content could be wrong.

This is simply false.

The Bible was written in such a way that it is extremely hard to mistranslate it.

I disagree.

The Bible is riddled with allegories and cryptic devices desiigned to conceal certain truths from the unknowing masses. One small mistranslation could massively impact the underlying secret or message of a given allegory.

It was written as a story, a narrative

Yep and that narrative and the stories are the "wadding" or camoflage that is needed to conceal the real secrets inside. If you want to write a coded letter to someone the secret is always hidden inside the bulk of the letter and the bulk of the letter itself is of no meaning or consequence and exists purely to provide the medium in which to conceal the secret(s).

This narrative prevents someone from intentionally mistranslating it, because such a translation simply wouldn't match the context of what is being said, and it makes it difficult to unintentionally mistranslate it, or introduce errors, because the information it presents is mostly redundant, and what errors HAVE crept in, are obvious, and well-documented.

Again that would only hold true of the text were real literal stories which they are not. The Boble contains all manner of secrets. Some of those secrets are endoded in various ways. One of them would be ELS coding (Equidistant Letter Spacing) where for example every 15th letter in a passage might spell out a word. If you translate the text in any way the letter spacing would be ruined and not preserved and thus the secret word inside would be lost. Case in point, if you change "heaven" to "heavens" then all the letter spacing is now out by one character. Change "heaven" to "firmament" and it's all gone to cock.

No, I can assure you, when it says "the heavens" and it's referring to the sky, it DOES, IN FACT, mean the sky, and when it says "the windows of heaven were opened," it DOES, IN FACT, mean that it started to rain.

It means both as is often the way with cryptic text, multiple meanings.

When Jesus spoke of the ear of corn having to die in order to bring forth much fruit he was highlighting a vital and core principle both of Nature herself and of Alchemy (which mimics the processes of Nature in a more controlled environment).

 

[marke]

"
"The Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, in their original state, are the inspired Word of God."

So, do we have the inspired Word of God today?

We do.

 

[JudgeRightly]

But any context is of itself, just more translated text. So if the translation is wrong then both the message and the content could be wrong.

The problem is that, as with any language, including ancient Hebrew and KOINE Greek, any given word has a sphere of meaning. It cannot mean something that it does not mean.

When strung together to form sentences, those sentences can only be translated a limited number of ways.

And when sentences are strung together to form a story, then it becomes nearly impossible to mistranslate what something is said, because the meaning of the words is derived from the context of the text they are in.

I disagree.

You can disagree until the cows come home. It doesn't change what I said.

The Bible is riddled with allegories and cryptic devices desiigned to conceal certain truths from the unknowing masses.

The Bible was written in such a way that anyone, even a child, can gain a surface level understanding of what it says. And anyone who puts in effort to read and understand what it says can glean new meaning from it.

That said...

Actions are not figurative language.

When the Bible says that God did something, it is not a figure of speech. He actually did something. He made Saul king. Later, He regretted making Saul king because Saul had become so wicked. He then installed David as King, replacing Saul.

None of these examples are allegory.

God ACTUALLY DID THOSE THINGS.

Saul and David were real people.

David was, in fact, a king over Israel. (See the Tel Dan Stele for evidence.)

One small mistranslation could massively impact the underlying secret or message of a given allegory.

Again, most of the Bible is not allegorical.

You're not wrong that "one small mistranslation" (or error) "could massively impact the underlying message" of the text. (I refer you to the Wicked Bible as an example of this)

And while yes, there are things hidden in scripture, because God did hide things, such things are not absolutely critical to be able to obtain a basic understanding of the scriptures.

To use an analogy presented within scripture... The basics, the "fundamentals," if you will, are considered milk. More advanced things that require delving into the details of scripture are considered meat.

Right now, you're lactose intolerant, not ready for the meat of the word, and it's your own fault for rejecting it.

Yep and that narrative and the stories are the "wadding" or camoflage that is needed to conceal the real secrets inside. If you want to write a coded letter to someone the secret is always hidden inside the bulk of the letter and the bulk of the letter itself is of no meaning or consequence and exists purely to provide the medium in which to conceal the secret(s).

Supra.

Again that would only hold true of the text were real literal stories which they are not.

Most of the stories in the Bible are actual history. Some of the stories are parable. Some are allegory. But to say that none of them are real stories is called lying.

The Boble

What's a Boble?

Is that like a bauble?

Just teasing you!

contains all manner of secrets.

Indeed. Discovering those secrets requires time and dedication to studying it.

Of course, the deeper things of God are not understandable by men who reject Him.

Some of those secrets are endoded in various ways.

Yeah, no.

All it takes is to study the bible.

One of them would be ELS coding (Equidistant Letter Spacing) where for example every 15th letter in a passage might spell out a word. If you translate the text in any way the letter spacing would be ruined and not preserved and thus the secret word inside would be lost. Case in point, if you change "heaven" to "heavens" then all the letter spacing is now out by one character. Change "heaven" to "firmament" and it's all gone to cock.

I can assure you that, at least in the English translation of the text, there is no "ELS coding."

As for the original language manuscripts, there is no way to know, as the originals have been lost to time, and even comparing modern Hebrew versions to the Dead Sea Scrolls reveals that, while they are virtually identical to each other, there are minor differences in spelling and grammar that don't affect the overarching message the text is presenting, and thus if there ever was any coding of that sort, then it would be impossible to know what it was.

In other words, trying to determine if there is such a form of coding in the Bible is an exercise in futility.

It means both as is often the way with cryptic text, multiple meanings.

You missed it.

Read what I said again.

When Jesus spoke of the ear of corn having to die in order to bring forth much fruit he was highlighting a vital and core principle both of Nature herself and of Alchemy (which mimics the processes of Nature in a more controlled environment).

Uh.... what are you even talking about?

John 12:20-26?

First of all, He's talking about grains of wheat, not corn.

Secondly, the context is about Jesus' coming death, His sacrifice as the Passover Lamb.

Now there were certain Greeks among those who came up to worship at the feast. Then they came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida of Galilee, and asked him, saying, “Sir, we wish to see Jesus.” Philip came and told Andrew, and in turn Andrew and Philip told Jesus. But Jesus answered them, saying, “The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified. Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain. He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor.

Bible Gateway passage: John 12:20-26 - New King James Version

The Fruitful Grain of Wheat - Now there were certain Greeks among those who came up to worship at the feast. Then they came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida of Galilee, and asked him, saying, “Sir, we wish to see Jesus.” Philip came and told Andrew, and in turn Andrew and Philip told Jesus. But...

www.biblegateway.com

It complements what He said just a few verses later:

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to Myself.” This He said, signifying by what death He would die.

Bible Gateway passage: John 12:32, John 12:33 - New King James Version

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”

www.biblegateway.com

Jesus knew He was about to die. The grain in the previous verses is talking about Himself. And just like a grain of wheat that falls to the ground and dies will produce much grain, so too when Christ dies, it will draw all men to Himself.

It has literally nothing to do with nature or alchemy.

 

[SwordOfTruth]

When the Bible says that God did something, it is not a figure of speech. He actually did something. He made Saul king. Later, He regretted making Saul king because Saul had become so wicked. He then installed David as King, replacing Saul.

None of these examples are allegory.

You are sadly incorrect. It's possible to write a true historical record and at the same time conceal within that text, via allegory and cryptic devices a specific secret. You see the historical record and stop there, and that's because you currently lack the "eyes to see and ears to hear" that Jesus spoke of whenever he was talking allegorically in parables or otherwise. I pray that you will receive those eyes and ears in the fullness of time.

The story of Noah for example contains alchemy allegory, it underpins the primary colours of the Great Work.
Genesis (as already explained) can be BOTH a description of the creation of the world and yet simultaneously provides a description of the laboratory processes used by alchemy to create the Stone. As above, so below.

Again, most of the Bible is not allegorical.

Most of it contains allegories within it at some point. It is absolutely littered with allegory. It's the allegories that are super important, not the historical record.

Right now, you're lactose intolerant, not ready for the meat of the word, and it's your own fault for rejecting it.

On the contrary I am already eating the special sauce contained within which is only available to those who can critical think and dare to explore different avenues and thereby get themselves out of the religion trap and programmed indoctrination that simply blinds people and seals their minds closed. You're obviously not yet ready for the real meal, delighting instead on your mastery of the milk and meat and expending your time in intellectual word battles with people instead of devoting your time to further research. For countless years I too was stuck in the shackles of religious indoctrination but I escaped from it simply by confronting the obvious problems with the religious propositions and their divisive psychological attempts to bludgeon people into compliance through fear tactics (some of which is still prevalent on this very forum).

The secrets become apparent only when the heart and mind are in the right state to receive them. This is very similar to the fact that a person can't enter the other realm without first undergoing a transformation:

Corinthians 15
50I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

This isn't about belief or psychology. This is talking about a real physical change without which it is cosmically impossible to enter the "kingdom of god", not something to be taken lightly. In the very same way, the secrets hidden within the Bible, which whether you want to believe it or not, DO VERY MUCH concern alchemy and The Great Work of creating and using the Philosopher's Stone (the White and Red Stones) can only be seen and understood by an open and inquiring mind that has first freed itself from religious shackles that would otherwise prevent you looking. It takes great humility to reach this point, the surrendering of ego and the "supposed" intellect and an acceptance that we know far less than we think we know. It also requires a mind that is capable of entertaining the prospect that religion has either outright lied to you or at the least concealed from you the true meanings of some parts of scripture. The Bible warns us about this countless times saying:

Ezekiel - "They have eyes to see but do not see and ears to hear but do not hear,"
Luke - "“Blessed are the eyes that see what you see. For I tell you that many prophets and kings wanted to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.”"
Mark - "Then Jesus said, “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”
Deuteronomy - "But to this day the Lord has not given you a mind that understands or eyes that see or ears that hear."
Revelation - "Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give that person a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to the one who receives it.

You may not know or realise it (because of those shackles) that the exact same message is allegorically hidden in most of the other major works of mainstream religion. They too not only describe the same alchemical processes but they too also warn that these secrets are for those with "eyes to see" or "special understanding".

From the Quran
Surah Ar-Rum (Rome)

24. He sends down water (rain) from the sky, and therewith revives the earth
after its death. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who understand

This is a clear description of the basic alchemy process of fermentation in which the repeated cycle of warm vapour rising up and condensing and then falling back like rain, vivifies the dead "earth" in the bottom of the flask, thereby transforming it. But note the passage warns that this knowledge will only be seen by those who understand.

Same thing is iterated here:

Surah Az-Zumar (The Groups)

21. See you not, that Allah sends down water (rain) from the sky, and causes
it to penetrate the earth, (and then makes it to spring up) as water-springs and
afterward thereby produces crops of different colours, and afterward they wither
and you see them turn yellow, then He makes them dry and broken pieces. Verily,
in this, is a Reminder for men of understanding.


Make no mistake here, I am not a Muslim nor follower of Islam. However as my heart and mind are freed frm religious indoctrination I am free to search for the truth in numerous places and in doing so it's plain to see that the same singular secret of the Philosopher's Stone is described in numerous religious texts, scriptures and far and wide elsewhere. It sprang from a central place and went out into the whole world where it became embedded in the works of those differing civilisations and cultures.

You'll find the same message running through the Bible, the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, in Taoism, in Rosicrucianism. It's everywhere hidden in plain sight and yet obscured from those who do not have "eyes to see and ears to hear".

Most of the stories in the Bible are actual history.

Irrellevant to the point I am making which is that they nevertheless contain within them the cryptic and allegorical references to alchemy and the Philosopher's Stone and everything to do with it. The processes for making it, the colours seen during it's preparation and the benefits the Stone bestows.

Some of the stories are parable. Some are allegory. But to say that none of them are real stories is called lying.

They are both. The historical record, wadding, serves to conceal and hold the allegorical, cryptic secret.

Indeed. Discovering those secrets requires time and dedication to studying it.

Discovering the real secrets requires both humility and great courage for it MUST by definition challenge your preconceptions and indoctrinated notions of things and no-one likes to think they may have been deceived or hoodwinked. Religious indoctrination serves to put blinkers on people such that they will never see what is right beside them.

Of course, the deeper things of God are not understandable by men who reject Him.

They're not available to those with closed minds and whose hearts are neither ready nor courageous enough to step outside their comfy religious conditioning.

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

It's amazing how many "Christians" gloss over this passage and gleefully think that countless billions of people have the answer and are on that narrow road. They absolutely are not. They are on the wide road leading to destruction. The true secret is hard to find. It's completely true that VERY FEW find it. Religion is one of the biggest reasons why most will never find it.

All it takes is to study the bible.

Patently false for you clearly study the Bible yourself and yet are totally oblivious to the great secrets contained within it pertaining to "life" and alchemy. So it obviously takes something more than just studying the Bible for billions of people worldwide likewise study it and yet still do not have "the eyes to see and ears to hear" the hidden message.

I can assure you that, at least in the English translation of the text, there is no "ELS coding."

No you can't assure me of that at all. I can testify that BOTH the English versions and the Hebrew versions contain important words hidden via ELS coding. Words that are 100% alchemical terms such as "calcination", "grey wolf", "Saturn", "fount", "youth" and so on.

It is remarkable that the translations contain these hidden words and that can only be via very deliberate and painstaking translation done to preserve the ELS coding or create new coding with the equivalent messaging.

As for the original language manuscripts, there is no way to know, as the originals have been lost to time, and even comparing modern Hebrew versions to the Dead Sea Scrolls reveals that, while they are virtually identical to each other, there are minor differences in spelling and grammar that don't affect the overarching message the text is presenting, and thus if there ever was any coding of that sort, then it would be impossible to know what it was.

As above. The translators clearly did a lot of work to ensure that the translated text, historical records, still contained within them the ELS coded words.

In other words, trying to determine if there is such a form of coding in the Bible is an exercise in futility.

You've blinded yourself without even looking or trying. You do not have the "eyes to see". Forget what you think you know. Go and look !

Uh.... what are you even talking about?

John 12:20-26?

First of all, He's talking about grains of wheat, not corn.

Actually it's a "corn of wheat" but also a grain or kernel depending on which translation you favour and it's irrelevant to the alchemical message being described.

Secondly, the context is about Jesus' coming death, His sacrifice as the Passover Lamb.

Again you can't see the wood for the trees. You don't have the "eyes to see". The passage describes the basic process of Nature and that's the process that Jesus went through and that the Stone goes through during the laboratory processes of alchemy. They are one and the same. So you're seeing the "historical record" part of the text but you're oblivious to the underlying hidden message which is the core principle of alchemy, that of "death" and "putrefaction" required in order that nature can reassemble the deconstructed mass into something new and pure.

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to Myself.” This He said, signifying by what death He would die.

Bible Gateway passage: John 12:32, John 12:33 - New King James Version

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”

www.biblegateway.com

Jesus knew He was about to die. The grain in the previous verses is talking about Himself. And just like a grain of wheat that falls to the ground and dies will produce much grain, so too when Christ dies, it will draw all men to Himself.

It has literally nothing to do with nature or alchemy.

It literally has everything to do with alchemy and if you understood just a few grains of information about alchemy you would understand it.

In the alchemy process there are various stages of operation. Along the way one or more substances are prepared, purified, combined together to form a specific set of circumstances, substances that act as a "magnet" for the "life force", the Spiritus Mundi, the Holy Spirit in your terminology.
Alchemy only succeeds when these substances are treated properly, purified, made to decompose and putrify and thereby bring about "new fruit", a completely new substance which atrracts to itself the vital life force of all things. The passages you quote make perfect sense alchemically.

Saying they don't when you have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of alchemy, it's processes, it's colours, smells and products is frankly just silly. The only truth you can state at this moment in time is that you don't know whether they refer to alchemy because you don't know anything about alchemy. That may change in time depending on whether you summon up the courage to step outside of your comfort zone and have the humility to concede you might need to learn something new.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You are sadly incorrect.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

It's possible to write a true historical record and at the same time conceal within that text, via allegory and cryptic devices a specific secret.

No one has said otherwise.

You see the historical record and stop there, and that's because you currently lack the "eyes to see and ears to hear" that Jesus spoke of whenever he was talking allegorically in parables or otherwise.

If the text says one thing, and this secret "cryptic secret" says another, then one is true, and the other is false.

The Bible is true, at face value. Therefore your "secret message" is false, because your "secret message" says something contrary to what the Bible teaches at face value.

I pray that you will receive those eyes and ears in the fullness of time.

That's rich, coming from someone who rejects the plain reading of scripture.

The story of Noah for example contains alchemy allegory, it underpins the primary colours of the Great Work.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Genesis (as already explained) can be BOTH a description of the creation of the world and yet simultaneously provides a description of the laboratory processes used by alchemy to create the Stone. As above, so below.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Most of it contains allegories within it at some point.

No one has said otherwise.

It is absolutely littered with allegory.

Supra.

It's the allegories that are super important, not the historical record.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

On the contrary I am already eating the special sauce contained within which is only available to those who can critical think and dare to explore different avenues and thereby get themselves out of the religion trap and programmed indoctrination that simply blinds people and seals their minds closed.

You reject the plain reading of scripture in favor of some secret message that only you have discovered.

That makes you special, indeed. But not the good kind.

You're obviously not yet ready for the real meal,

Says the one who is lactose intolerant.

delighting instead on your mastery of the milk and meat and expending your time in intellectual word battles with people instead of devoting your time to further research.

Hypocrite.

For countless years I too was stuck in the shackles of religious indoctrination but I escaped from it simply by confronting the obvious problems with the religious propositions and their divisive psychological attempts to bludgeon people into compliance through fear tactics (some of which is still prevalent on this very forum).

Sounds like you encountered false doctrines and instead of questioning them and reevaluating your beliefs from a different perspective, you threw the baby out with the bathwater and rejected Christianity as a whole.

That's not wisdom.

The secrets become apparent only when the heart and mind are in the right state to receive them.

Maybe you should look in the mirror when you say that...

This is very similar to the fact that a person can't enter the other realm without first undergoing a transformation:

Corinthians 15
50I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

The "other realm" is called Heaven.

The "transformation" is when we who have accepted Christ as Savior receive our new bodies.

The mystery Paul mentions there is part of the gospel of grace, which was given to him by Christ.

It was, in fact, a mystery not known prior to his conversion, because God had kept it a secret.

Occam's razor, remember?

This isn't about belief or psychology. This is talking about a real physical change without which it is cosmically impossible to enter the "kingdom of god", not something to be taken lightly.

Who said to??

In the very same way, the secrets hidden within the Bible, which whether you want to believe it or not, DO VERY MUCH concern alchemy

Saying it doesn't make it so.

and The Great Work of creating and using the Philosopher's Stone (the White and Red Stones) can only be seen and understood by an open and inquiring mind that has first freed itself from religious shackles that would otherwise prevent you looking.

Occam's Razor says that we can safely reject this proposition, because it is adding complexity to what is already very simple.

It takes great humility to reach this point, the surrendering of ego and the "supposed" intellect and an acceptance that we know far less than we think we know. It also requires a mind that is capable of entertaining the prospect that religion has either outright lied to you or at the least concealed from you the true meanings of some parts of scripture.

It sounds like you're trying to convince yourself that you made the right decision, trying to rationalize a falsehood so that you can feel better about yourself.

The Bible warns us about this countless times saying:

Ezekiel - "They have eyes to see but do not see and ears to hear but do not hear,"
Luke - "“Blessed are the eyes that see what you see. For I tell you that many prophets and kings wanted to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.”"
Mark - "Then Jesus said, “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”
Deuteronomy - "But to this day the Lord has not given you a mind that understands or eyes that see or ears that hear."
Revelation - "Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give that person a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to the one who receives it.

If you actually studied the Bible, like you claim, then you would have noticed that not one of these verses is from Paul.

You would have noticed that the people who aren't listening are, specifically, the children of Israel.

Yes, it can be applied generally, "he who has ears let him hear," but you can't just ignore what the verse says on its face and only focus on the general application.

You may not know or realise it (because of those shackles) that the exact same message is allegorically hidden in most of the other major works of mainstream religion. They too not only describe the same alchemical processes but they too also warn that these secrets are for those with "eyes to see" or "special understanding".

From the Quran
Surah Ar-Rum (Rome)

24. He sends down water (rain) from the sky, and therewith revives the earth
after its death. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who understand

This is a clear description of the basic alchemy process of fermentation in which the repeated cycle of warm vapour rising up and condensing and then falling back like rain, vivifies the dead "earth" in the bottom of the flask, thereby transforming it. But note the passage warns that this knowledge will only be seen by those who understand.

Same thing is iterated here:

Surah Az-Zumar (The Groups)

21. See you not, that Allah sends down water (rain) from the sky, and causes
it to penetrate the earth, (and then makes it to spring up) as water-springs and
afterward thereby produces crops of different colours, and afterward they wither
and you see them turn yellow, then He makes them dry and broken pieces. Verily,
in this, is a Reminder for men of understanding.

More nonsense, not worth my time refuting, except to state, plainly and clearly, that "Allah" is not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He doesn't exist.

The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob does exist, and wants you to love Him.

Make no mistake here, I am not a Muslim nor follower of Islam. However as my heart and mind are freed from religious indoctrination I am free to search for the truth in numerous places and in doing so it's plain to see that the same singular secret of the Philosopher's Stone is described in numerous religious texts, scriptures and far and wide elsewhere. It sprang from a central place and went out into the whole world where it became embedded in the works of those differing civilisations and cultures.

You'll find the same message running through the Bible, the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, in Taoism, in Rosicrucianism. It's everywhere hidden in plain sight and yet obscured from those who do not have "eyes to see and ears to hear".

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Just because there are similarities between two different religions' texts doesn't mean there's some hidden secret.

Irrellevant to the point I am making which is that they nevertheless contain within them the cryptic and allegorical references to alchemy and the Philosopher's Stone and everything to do with it. The processes for making it, the colours seen during it's preparation and the benefits the Stone bestows.

More nonsense.

They are both. The historical record, wadding, serves to conceal and hold the allegorical, cryptic secret.

The secret you claim exists does not.

The message of the Bible is that God exists, and you are not Him, and that Jesus is God, and rose from the dead, proving his divinity.

If you reject this message, then you are rejecting the truth.

That puts you at enmity with God. You should repent.

Discovering the real secrets requires both humility and great courage for it MUST by definition challenge your preconceptions and indoctrinated notions of things and no-one likes to think they may have been deceived or hoodwinked. Religious indoctrination serves to put blinkers on people such that they will never see what is right beside them.

Sounds like you've been indoctrinated into thinking the Bible is a book about alchemy.

The Truth will set you free. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to God except through Him.

They're not available to those with closed minds and whose hearts are neither ready nor courageous enough to step outside their comfy religious conditioning.

Right back at you.

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

This is true.

It's amazing how many "Christians" gloss over this passage and gleefully think that countless billions of people have the answer and are on that narrow road.

When you reject the truth, anything that aligns with the truth seems like deceit.

They absolutely are not.

Because you say so?

They are on the wide road leading to destruction.

Because you say so?

The true secret is hard to find.

The true secret is that Jesus is LORD, and that you should place your trust in Him.

If you don't do that, you will perish.

It's completely true that VERY FEW find it. Religion is one of the biggest reasons why most will never find it.

Stick to what scripture says.

Patently false

Saying it doesn't make it so.

for you clearly study the Bible yourself and yet are totally oblivious to the great secrets contained within it pertaining to "life" and alchemy.

I can't be oblivious to what doesn't exist.

So it obviously takes something more than just studying the Bible for billions of people worldwide likewise study it and yet still do not have "the eyes to see and ears to hear" the hidden message.

And that's where you come in?

Sounds very sketchy.

No you can't assure me of that at all.

Yes, I can.

I can testify that BOTH the English versions and the Hebrew versions contain important words hidden via ELS coding.

And you would be wrong.

Words that are 100% alchemical terms such as "calcination", "grey wolf", "Saturn", "fount", "youth" and so on.

You sure do have a vivid imagination.

Any instance where this happens is pure coincidence.

The message of the Bible is not about alchemy.

It is remarkable that the translations contain these hidden words and that can only be via very deliberate and painstaking translation done to preserve the ELS coding or create new coding with the equivalent messaging.

Sounds like you've invented some method to try to justify your beliefs, rather than letting the scripture interpret scripture.

As above. The translators clearly did a lot of work to ensure that the translated text, historical records, still contained within them the ELS coded words.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

You've blinded yourself without even looking or trying.

Says the one who rejects what scripture says plainly.

You do not have the "eyes to see".

Supra.

Forget what you think you know. Go and look!

Right back at you.

Go back and look at the scriptures.

Read the Bible through from cover to cover, without trying to interpret its meaning or trying to find some hidden message.

Let it say what it says.

Actually it's a "corn of wheat" but also a grain or kernel depending on which translation you favour and it's irrelevant to the alchemical message being described.

Begging the question.

Again you can't see the wood for the trees. You don't have the "eyes to see".

Supra.

The passage describes the basic process of Nature and that's the process that Jesus went through and that the Stone goes through during the laboratory processes of alchemy. They are one and the same. So you're seeing the "historical record" part of the text but you're oblivious to the underlying hidden message which is the core principle of alchemy, that of "death" and "putrefaction" required in order that nature can reassemble the deconstructed mass into something new and pure.

More nonsense.

It literally has everything to do with alchemy

Saying it doesn't make it so.

and if you understood just a few grains of information about alchemy you would understand it.

"If you just understood what I'm saying, you would believe as I do!"

The problem is I understand what you're saying completely, and I reject it BECAUSE of what scripture says, not in spite of it.

I "let God be true and every man a liar."

You assume God is lying, and try to justify your own beliefs through some fantasy.

We are not the same.

In the alchemy process there are various stages of operation. Along the way one or more substances are prepared, purified, combined together to form a specific set of circumstances, substances that act as a "magnet" for the "life force", the Spiritus Mundi, the Holy Spirit in your terminology.
Alchemy only succeeds when these substances are treated properly, purified, made to decompose and putrify and thereby bring about "new fruit", a completely new substance which atrracts to itself the vital life force of all things. The passages you quote make perfect sense alchemically.

Saying they don't when you have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of alchemy, it's processes, it's colours, smells and products is frankly just silly. The only truth you can state at this moment in time is that you don't know whether they refer to alchemy because you don't know anything about alchemy. That may change in time depending on whether you summon up the courage to step outside of your comfort zone and have the humility to concede you might need to learn something new.

All complete hogwash.

I can confidently state that the Bible is not a book about alchemy. It's not a book that contains some hidden secret message that only you've been able to uncover.

The ENTIRE BIBLE is about Christ, and what He did to save humanity from sin.

 

[SwordOfTruth]

If the text says one thing, and this secret "cryptic secret" says another, then one is true, and the other is false.

Illogical conclusion. The "plain text" can assert one fact or describe historical matters and still conceal within it a completely different unrelated fact. Both could therefore be true facts.

The Bible is true, at face value. Therefore your "secret message" is false, because your "secret message" says something contrary to what the Bible teaches at face value.

What do you believe the "secret message" says? Given you haven't seen it . . . .

You reject the plain reading of scripture in favor of some secret message that only you have discovered.

Who said only I have discovered it?

The "other realm" is called Heaven.

Only by religious systems. I'm sure it has many different names in many different cultures and civilisations past and present.

The "transformation" is when we who have accepted Christ as Savior receive our new bodies.

And when do you think that transformation will actually happen? Obviously it hasn't happened yet as you're still a physical human body.

The mystery Paul mentions there is part of the gospel of grace, which was given to him by Christ.
It was, in fact, a mystery not known prior to his conversion, because God had kept it a secret.
Occam's razor, remember?

Nonsense. All the ancients prior to Paul, (Noah et al) knew this mystery and had the Stone which is how and why they lived 900yrs.
Occams Razor indeed !

More nonsense, not worth my time refuting, except to state, plainly and clearly, that "Allah" is not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He doesn't exist.

Wilful avoidance of truth. I have plainly shown that the same secret and the same alchemical terminology is used in both the Bible and the Quran in the same way (i.e. vapours rising, clouds drop down their dew, rain, earth being vivified etc) and that both the Bible and Quran in doing so both highlight that the meaning is for those with "eyes to see" or "who understand" indicating the hidden mystery. It's the very presence of the same references to mist, dew, rain, earth etc that prove that they are both talking about the same secret. Same thing is found in the bhagavad Gita and elsewhere. It's undeniable.

Just because there are similarities between two different religions' texts doesn't mean there's some hidden secret.

They're far more than similarities. They contain the same consistent terminology and they equally contain the same statements that only certain people will understand.

The secret you claim exists does not.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

There are 1000s of texts, works, treatises underpinning the secret as well as copius references to it in the Bible and almost every major religious work. It plainly does exist then.

The message of the Bible is that God exists, and you are not Him, and that Jesus is God, and rose from the dead, proving his divinity.

There are numerous messages in the Bible, many of them hidden in plain sight. Unless you see them all you're working from an incomplete picture.

If you reject this message, then you are rejecting the truth.

If you reject the secrets hidden in plain sight then you are rejecting the truth
If on the other hand you have not yet been granted the "eyes to see" them then that's a different matter and that can be changed in time.

That puts you at enmity with God. You should repent.

No it puts me in an entirely different position to those who have hog tied themselves to half a story and shackled their minds in doing so.

Sounds like you've been indoctrinated into thinking the Bible is a book about alchemy.

My eyes have been opened to see and undertsand the absolute plethora of references to alchemy that exist in the Bible text and indeed elsewhere.
Thats the opposite of indoctrination. Indoctrination is when your are forcibly constricted and permitted to only see one part or one avenue of discovery and are told that even daring to look elsewhere will see you land in lakes of fire and other BS.

The Truth will set you free.

Indeed it will.

When you reject the truth, anything that aligns with the truth seems like deceit.

When you see the truth, everything around it falls into place very neatly.

The true secret is that Jesus is LORD, and that you should place your trust in Him.

If you don't do that, you will perish.

The true secret was given as a stark warning in the Bible story where Jesus says:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."


Despite this billions of "Christians" worldwide are not eating the allegorical flesh and drinking the allegorical blood and therefore have no life in them and thus are going to perish. They aren't eating or drinking anything which provides the "life" that Jesus was very specifically referring to.

Stick to what scripture says.

This has to include the hidden messages. To ignore that is futile and self-destructive.

Any instance where this happens is pure coincidence.

lol

Finding lots of alchemy terms encoded in the Bible is far from co-incidence.

Tell you what, go grab an electronic copy of say "Far From The Madding Crowd" and go search it for names of flowers hidden with equidistant letter spacing. I'll bet you can come up with maybe 1 or 2 at most. Maybe ROSE and LILY for example. If on the other hand you found 10-20 such flowers in there then any sane mind would have to concede that they must have been put there deliberately. No co-incdence involved.

The message of the Bible is not about alchemy.

Some of the messages are most certainly about alchemy. Some are about it's basic processes, some are about the specific colours that should be seen during the processes, some are about the benefits the end product will bestow on you. There's a lot in there, all alchemy related.

Sounds like you've invented some method to try to justify your beliefs, rather than letting the scripture interpret scripture.

I've invented nothing. The alchemy references are right there in plain sight for all to see . . . . well for those with "eyes to see" !

Read the Bible through from cover to cover, without trying to interpret its meaning or trying to find some hidden message.

Why would I want to leave out the most important bits?

"If you just understood what I'm saying, you would believe as I do!"

The problem is I understand what you're saying completely, and I reject it BECAUSE of what scripture says, not in spite of it.

No you reject it because your mind is closed and afraid to concede there might be more to learn and equally because you lack the humility to reach that position and the courage to stand back and re-appraise. You've been given new information. You should use that to re-appraise rather than trying to double-down on your entrenched position.

You assume God is lying, and try to justify your own beliefs through some fantasy.

Nope. I'm actually assuming that the messages hidden in the text are indeed true. And since those same messages are found elsewhere I'm more and more inclined to believe them.

I can confidently state that the Bible is not a book about alchemy. It's not a book that contains some hidden secret message that only you've been able to uncover.

It's a work that 100% contains an absolute plethora of references to alchemy, its processes, it's colours and the benefits it provides to humans.
No question whatsoever. No equivocation. To deny it is to be like Canute and sit on a beach trying to say the tide won't come in.

Your willingness to just flatly deny something you know nothing at all about, especially something embedded in scripture puts you in an untennable position. You might as well stand in a bucket and try and pull yourself up by the handle !

 

[Lon]

Illogical conclusion. The "plain text" can assert one fact or describe historical matters and still conceal within it a completely different unrelated fact. Both could therefore be true facts.

You know more about alchemy, and that not as much as you think, than you do the scriptures. It is a force upon the text. It is wrongheaded. There are books on #'s, patterns, and alchemy, they are incorrect.

What do you believe the "secret message" says? Given you haven't seen it . . . .

He told you: if it agrees with the context, well and fine if extrapolated and interposed but in the end a waste of time. It does nothing to help one know God. God chose the simple things to confound the wise and you look like that guy.

Who said only I have discovered it?

Who said anybody discovered such nonsense?

And when do you think that transformation will actually happen? Obviously it hasn't happened yet as you're still a physical human body.

Sigh 2 Corinthians 5:17, note it doesn't say 'will become.'

Nonsense. All the ancients prior to Paul, (Noah et al) knew this mystery and had the Stone which is how and why they lived 900yrs.
Occams Razor indeed !

Read the Bible???

Wilful avoidance of truth. I have plainly shown that the same secret and the same alchemical terminology is used in both the Bible and the Quran in the same way (i.e. vapours rising, clouds drop down their dew, rain, earth being vivified etc) and that both the Bible and Quran in doing so both highlight that the meaning is for those with "eyes to see" or "who understand" indicating the hidden mystery. It's the very presence of the same references to mist, dew, rain, earth etc that prove that they are both talking about the same secret. Same thing is found in the bhagavad Gita and elsewhere. It's undeniable.

Er, the dictionary has all those ideas too 0.o You've bought into an imposition uncritically. Read the Bible more than trying to pry impositions into it or you'll never grasp it. There is no back-masking that "Paul is dead." Silly people impose their poor thoughts. There is absolutely no difference here. Most people I talk to like this did a lot of drugs in their youth and it shows. People who have done drugs have obliterated the ability to rationalize and reason. They are wholly dependent upon the rest of us to know what is rational and what isn't after that. Because they ruined their rationality, they are no longer able.

They're far more than similarities. They contain the same consistent terminology and they equally contain the same statements that only certain people will understand.

Science does, because the heavens declare the glory of God. 2 Timothy 3:16 I'm unsure if you'll be corrected but you've a lot to correct.

There are 1000s of texts, works, treatises underpinning the secret as well as copius references to it in the Bible and almost every major religious work. It plainly does exist then.

There are copious works written that have gotten it all wrong. An appeal to the masses is a fallacy.

There are numerous messages in the Bible, many of them hidden in plain sight. Unless you see them all you're working from an incomplete picture.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

If you reject the secrets hidden in plain sight then you are rejecting the truth

LOL (sorry, forgive me for a chuckle over audacity).

If on the other hand you have not yet been granted the "eyes to see" them then that's a different matter and that can be changed in time.

We have one Mediator between God and man. Special pleading attempts to replace Him. No scripture is given of or for private interpretation. If it isn't plain to all believers, it doesn't exist.

No it puts me in an entirely different position to those who have hog tied themselves to half a story and shackled their minds in doing so.

Delusional much? I often disagree with Judge Rightly but he grasps scripture incredibly better than you and because he and I both know the core of the same teaching of scripture, neither of us is above the other, nor prey to foolishness. You've elevated yourself arrogantly and can't even speak to what he, I, and every Spirit-led believer already knows. It is special pleading and falls short of what we know to be true.

My eyes have been opened to see and undertsand the absolute plethora of references to alchemy that exist in the Bible text and indeed elsewhere.
Thats the opposite of indoctrination. Indoctrination is when your are forcibly constricted and permitted to only see one part or one avenue of discovery and are told that even daring to look elsewhere will see you land in lakes of fire and other BS.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The true secret was given as a stark warning in the Bible story where Jesus says:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

Not alchemy! You've imposed it upon the text! YOU did! All by yourself!

Despite this billions of "Christians" worldwide are not eating the allegorical flesh and drinking the allegorical blood and therefore have no life in them and thus are going to perish. They aren't eating or drinking anything which provides the "life" that Jesus was very specifically referring to.

You've no idea what you are talking about other than your special impositions thrust upon the text. It isn't enlightenment. Scripture says it is antichrist (against Christ). John 4:1-3 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this, you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming and is now already in the world."

This has to include the hidden messages. To ignore that is futile and self-destructive.

Really. What do these 'hidden' message tell you to do? What do they say about the rest of scriptures? Enlightened? Your understanding is 'above and beyond' God's intent. He is not given to finding 'special people' after the Son.

Finding lots of alchemy terms encoded in the Bible is far from co-incidence.

"IF" it were true, Christians would know. They do not. God doesn't do special hidden message for special people. You are living a fable. There is nothing, nothing, you can get from alchemy that will help anybody walk with God over the scriptures. He isn't going to hide it. Yes He spoke in parables. No, the messages aren't hidden in them. People who had no love for Him had no desire to understand them. THAT is why the message was hidden from them. They didn't want to know. How about you? Read it instead of imposing upon it.

Tell you what, go grab an electronic copy of say "Far From The Madding Crowd" and go search it for names of flowers hidden with equidistant letter spacing. I'll bet you can come up with maybe 1 or 2 at most. Maybe ROSE and LILY for example. If on the other hand you found 10-20 such flowers in there then any sane mind would have to concede that they must have been put there deliberately. No co-incdence involved.

Extrapolation, not reasonable insistence that scripture is replete with such. Look, there are patterns to everything because mathematically, for things to make sense, they have to have patterns or God couldn't reason with us. You don't go trying to figure out the patterns but rather fall in step with the Creator who is orderly and you do this by LISTENING to Him, not running off on tangents that do nothing for you. "Ahhh! I understand the patterns!" So what: Do you love your neighbor? (no inbetween the lines helpful) Do you love God with your heart soul mind and strength? (no inbetween the lines helpful or insightful at all) You are living in an unhealthy preoccupation, scripture says. It tells the rest of us to avoid the foolish, fruitless, peripheral matters of no import.

Some of the messages are most certainly about alchemy. Some are about it's basic processes, some are about the specific colours that should be seen during the processes, some are about the benefits the end product will bestow on you. There's a lot in there, all alchemy related.

However you see it, it is an imposition. It is like trying to say "all of scripture is about mathematics!" It has a pattern, because it is language. So and what? Profound? Not at all and such focus is well away from intent of scriptures. You've become preoccupied with peripherals of your own fancy. This is not the purpose of scripture and you've become by choice, unable to follow and learn from them.

I've invented nothing. The alchemy references are right there in plain sight for all to see . . . . well for those with "eyes to see" !

SoT: "You can see alchemy in the Bible if you really want to push and shove it in there!"

No you reject it because your mind is closed and afraid to concede there might be more to learn and equally because you lack the humility to reach that position and the courage to stand back and re-appraise. You've been given new information. You should use that to re-appraise rather than trying to double-down on your entrenched position.

Er, did you do drugs in your younger years? There is NO instruction in scripture to look to alchemy for greater understanding! This would be like saying he has to know alchemy to enjoy Moby Dick. It is brainless. Do you understand that? You haven't demonstrated that you know Christ and Him crucified, nor have you said anything cogent or compelling or demonstrated it has helped you in any way to collate alchemy with scripture. It is an appeal to special interest and imposition. I might as well put Lord of the Rings characters into scripture so that "I understand the bible better." :Z

Nope. I'm actually assuming that the messages hidden in the text are indeed true. And since those same messages are found elsewhere I'm more and more inclined to believe them.

There are no hidden messages. There is no back-masking (other than people doing it to make fun of back-masker conspiracy theorists).

It's a work that 100% contains an absolute plethora of references to alchemy, its processes, it's colours and the benefits it provides to humans.
No question whatsoever. No equivocation. To deny it is to be like Canute and sit on a beach trying to say the tide won't come in.

Go ahead. Add to scripture: what do you understand that no Christian understands that will make his/her walk with their Maker better? You make the claim, back it up? I'm pretty sure you'll never answer this, or if so with no appreciable help to any believer. Go ahead, make gold out of lead for me.

Your willingness to just flatly deny something you know nothing at all about, especially something embedded in scripture puts you in an untennable position. You might as well stand in a bucket and try and pull yourself up by the handle !

I understand alchemy. It does nothing for my scripture reading, my walk with God, or my practical life. It is a fancy out of balance and off-track to impose it. We all have areas of interest: truck driving, philosophy, astrology etc. These may give us insights into scriptures, such as a workman being worthy of his wage. These interests do not make us 'special' or give us 'special insight' into the scriptures. Help? Sure. Special pleading that I must become a truck-driver to understand the word of God is unhinged.

"You have to be a truck driver to know what the bible really says!" <-- unhinged

 

[JudgeRightly]

We all have areas of interest: truck driving, philosophy, astrology etc. These may give us insights into scriptures, such as a workman being worthy of his wage. These interests do not make us 'special' or give us 'special insight' into the scriptures. Help? Sure. Special pleading that I must become a truck-driver to understand the word of God is unhinged.

"You have to be a truck driver to know what the bible really says!" <-- unhinged

Truck drivers have some pretty crazy theology sometimes...

I speak from experience! ;D

 

[Nick M]

As above, so below.

Devil worshiper alert.

 

[Lon]

How do you know that's what the Hebrew word is? Besides, we speak English. The message changed because heaven and heavens are not the same.

Are you sure? Crowd vs crowds. What significant difference? Do you catch any? Would you really be confused if I said either??? :nono:

I wrote out the two verses. What does that have to do with reading my mind? They're right there for you to compare. Do you catch what one says differently than the other, or no?

Nope. No contradiction on point. Your point? Needs to be made not intimated.