ECT Do those who believe MAD have no problem disregarding what Jesus actually taught ?

[Danoh]

The scriptures you posted speaks to the people that the 12 were sent to and NOTHING about the message they were to deliver.


The point of the OP is that Jesus never taught nor implied 2 gospels. Can you produce ONE scripture where He taught or implied that He was teaching 2 gospels one for Jews and another for gentiles ? Is everything Madist believe based on PAUL and only what Paul taught ? If that is the case then my OP was right the teachings of Jesus are being IGNORED by Madist.

Being that the difference in Scripture between those considered God's people and those not is always a spiritual one; define lost Jews and Gentiles this side of Israel's fall and temporary setting aside, per the end of Acts 7; the end of Romans 2, and all of Romans 3.

Is there at that point still a distinction between the two, or are both now in spiritual UNcircumcision?

 

[Tambora]

If that is the case then my OP was right the teachings of Jesus are being IGNORED by Madist.

No MADist ignores any scripture.
We do however believe that not all things Jesus taught the 12 to do was for everyone to do at all times.
And if you are honest with yourself, you believe the same.

Matthew 10:5 KJV
(5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

​

The above saying of Jesus is not ignored, but we certainly don't follow that instruction Jesus gave to the 12 at that time.
MAD recognizes that things change.
Our instructions are not the same instructions Jesus gave to others, as the above clearly shows.

And Paul was not given the same instructions as the 12 were.
For instance, the 12 were sent to baptize; Paul was not (1 Cor 1:17)

Things that differ are not the same.

 

[Tambora]

The scriptures you posted speaks to the people that the 12 were sent to and NOTHING about the message they were to deliver.

The message they were to deliver follows the passage I quoted of whom they were to take their message to.
No need to post the whole thing to get the point that their instructions at that time were not going to be the same instructions for everyone at all times.

You do understand that, right?

 

[dodge]

No MADist ignores any scripture.
We do however believe that not all things Jesus taught the 12 to do was for everyone to do at all times.
And if you are honest with yourself, you believe the same.

Matthew 10:5 KJV
(5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

​

The above saying of Jesus is not ignored, but we certainly don't follow that instruction Jesus gave to the 12 at that time.
MAD recognizes that things change.
Our instructions are not the same instructions Jesus gave to others, as the above clearly shows.

And Paul was not given the same instructions as the 12 were.
For instance, the 12 were sent to baptize; Paul was not (1 Cor 1:17)

Things that differ are not the same.

Paul obviously baptized some folks.


1Co 1:14
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

Paul was being obedient to Jesus in baptizing those he led to the Lord.

Mat 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

 

[Tambora]

The point of the OP is that Jesus never taught nor implied 2 gospels. Can you produce ONE scripture where He taught or implied that He was teaching 2 gospels one for Jews and another for gentiles ? Is everything Madist believe based on PAUL and only what Paul taught ? If that is the case then my OP was right the teachings of Jesus are being IGNORED by Madist.

Hold on.
Do you not think that the teaching of Paul came from Christ?

 

[dodge]

Hold on.
Do you not think that the teaching of Paul came from Christ?

Yes, you don't ?

Col 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,

 

[Tambora]

Paul obviously baptized some folks.


1Co 1:14
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

Paul was not sent to baptize. (1 Cor 1:17)

Paul was being obedient to Jesus in baptizing those he led to the Lord.

If he was, he would not be thanking GOD that he only baptized those two guys.

Mat 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Paul was not included, and Paul did not do it.
As you have pointed out, Paul thanked GOD that he had not baptized any but only those two fellows.
Doesn't sound at all like Paul was even trying to obey the command of Jesus to baptize all nations.

 

[Tambora]

Yes, you don't ?

Col 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,

Yes I do think that the teaching of Paul was from Christ.
Which is why I found it troubling that you would try to distinguish the teaching of Paul as being something that was not of Christ.
If Paul says he was not sent to baptize, then Christ did not send him to baptize as He sent the others to do.
Things that differ are not the same.

 

[dodge]

Paul was not sent to baptize. (1 Cor 1:17)


If he was, he would not be thanking GOD that he only baptized those two guys.

Paul was not included, and Paul did not do it.
As you have pointed out, Paul thanked GOD that he had not baptized any but only those two fellows.
Doesn't sound at all like Paul was even trying to obey the command of Jesus to baptize all nations.

Ok, I will bite . why are you marginalizing that, Paul records that he baptized, Paul baptized folks ? 1 or a 1000 Paul baptized folks. It could be that Paul did not record every person he baptized.

Tambora, again show me one scripture from what JESUS taught that says or even implies 2 gospels ! There is NO teaching of Jesus that says or implies 2 gospels. Paul was a disciple and Apostle of Jesus and he did not teach anything Jesus and scripture had not already taught. 2 different groups of folks gentiles and Jews SAME MESSAGE.

Paul never spoke against baptism EVER.

 

[Tambora]

The point of the OP is that Jesus never taught nor implied 2 gospels. Can you produce ONE scripture where He taught or implied that He was teaching 2 gospels one for Jews and another for gentiles ?

The teaching of Paul is the teaching of Christ.

Galatians 2:7 KJV
(7) But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

 

[dodge]

The teaching of Paul is the teaching of Christ.

Galatians 2:7 KJV
(7) But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Not 2 different messages 2 different groups of people JEWS AND GENTILES.

Paul was sent to the gentiles to share the gospel.

Peter was sent to the Jews to share the gospel.

Same message 2 different groups of people.

Scripture plainly teaches that God is not a respecter of folks and to create 2 different gospels makes God a respecter of folks !

 

[Tambora]

Ok, I will bite . why are you marginalizing that, Paul records that he baptized, Paul baptized folks ? 1 or a 1000 Paul baptized folks. It could be that Paul did not record every person he baptized.

Could be that Paul baptized unicorns, but we don't go by "could be".
We go by what is stated in scripture.
Paul thanked GOD he baptized no one but those two fellows.
And we have a clear cut scripture that says that Paul was not sent to baptize.
Believe the scriptures.

 

[dodge]

Could be that Paul baptized unicorns, but we don't go by "could be".
We go by what is stated in scripture.
Paul thanked GOD he baptized no one but those two fellows.
And we have a clear cut scripture that says that Paul was not sent to baptize.
Believe the scriptures.

So you believe Paul was being disobedient to God when he baptized Crispus and Gaius ?

 

[Danoh]

Yes, you don't ?

Col 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,

Are these two the same?

Isaiah 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. 8:17 And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him. 8:18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion. 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

And before you respond with, "well Isaiah was the Old Testatment," keep in mind....

Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

And much of Matthew thru John takes place BEFORE Christ was crucified- much of those four books are in fact, Old Testament ground.

Case in point...

Matthew 8:1 When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him. 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 8:3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 8:4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

And that is just one issue you need to carefully consider, before you can even begin to move on from this higher ground of understanding from the Scripture itself, to an even higher one.

Just as in life - the higher the level of abstraction one looks at things from; the more one is not only then able to see...but with greater and greater clarity.

 

[dodge]

Jesus said to be baptized and that is good enough for me !

 

[Nang]

Jesus said to be baptized and that is good enough for me !

Amen!

Jesus Himself was baptized to demonstrate "all righteousness."

 

[dodge]

Are these two the same?

Isaiah 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. 8:17 And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him. 8:18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion. 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

And before you respond with, "well Isaiah was the Old Testatment," keep in consider....

Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

And much of Matthew thru John takes place BEFORE Christ was crucified- much of those four books are in fact, Old Testament ground.

Case in point...

Matthew 8:1 When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him. 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 8:3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 8:4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

Case in point, and this one, as late as...

Matthew 8:1 When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him. 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 8:3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 8:4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

And that is just one issue you need to carefully consider, before you can even begin to move on from this higher ground of understanding from the Scripture itself, to an even higher one.

Just as in life - the higher the level of abstraction one looks at things from; the more one is not only then able to see...but with greater and greater clarity.

Yet, no one has answered the OP !

Give me 1 teaching of Jesus or even an implied 2 gospel message from Jesus.

2 different groups and the SAME message of GRACE and forgiveness for those that repent, trust and accept the gift of forgiveness that GOD gave those who trust and follow Him.

 

[steko]

Ok, I will bite . why are you marginalizing that, Paul records that he baptized, Paul baptized folks ? 1 or a 1000 Paul baptized folks. It could be that Paul did not record every person he baptized.

Tambora, again show me one scripture from what JESUS taught that says or even implies 2 gospels ! There is NO teaching of Jesus that says or implies 2 gospels. Paul was a disciple and Apostle of Jesus and he did not teach anything Jesus and scripture had not already taught. 2 different groups of folks gentiles and Jews SAME MESSAGE.

In the letter of Acts, Luke begins recording of the unfolding of prophecy regarding the offer of the Davidic Messianic Kingdom to national Israel.
The nations/gentiles were to be blessed through the rise of Israel as head of the nations under her Messiah, according to prophecy.
Israel, as a nation did not submit to her promised Messiah, thus failing to carry the good news of the Messianic Kingdom to the nations.
Thus, Christ from heaven, raised up Paul with a commission to the nations(which included Israel as just one of the nations on equal ground) with the good news of the cross and the pure grace of GOD.
Luke demonstrates in his chronology a transition from a prophesied plan for Israel's rise under Messiah and the preaching and demonstration of signs by the twelve to a mystery administration under the Apostle Paul to the nations/gentiles as Israel fell and was set aside....now, for two thousand years.

The prophesied Messianic Davidic Kingdom of heaven will be restored to a regathered Israel in the land in GOD's timing when the fullness of the nation/gentiles has been accomplished.

 

[Nang]

Could be that Paul baptized unicorns, but we don't go by "could be".
We go by what is stated in scripture.
Paul thanked GOD he baptized no one but those two fellows.
And we have a clear cut scripture that says that Paul was not sent to baptize.
Believe the scriptures.

Lots of souls are saved and fulfill the ministry of faith, without being called to perform baptisms.

The reality of a variety of Christian callings, does not nullify the command to baptize all believers in the name of Triune God.

Denial of the sacraments, which manifest the Gospel of Jesus Christ, is serious error.

It is nothing less than a denial of the Gospel altogether, and inventing another gospel message does not excuse your rebellion against Christ's teachings and commands.

 

[DAN P]

Same GOSPEL two different groups of people as in Jews and gentiles.
I will stay with what Jesus taught.

Hi and Jesus taught the Gospel of thr KINGDOM in Matt 4:17

Is this a Gospel ? YES IT IS !!

In Matt 10:5 His disciples were told NOT to go to the GENTILES or any city of the SAMANRITANS so Jesus is RACIST ??

In Gal 2:7 Paul preached to the GENTILES which is called THE UN-CIRCUMCISION GOSPEL and Peter was to preach THE CIRCUMCISION and Eph 22:11 describes what CIRCUMCISION and UN-CIRCUMCISION mean !!

dAN P