Dispensationaism Proven.

[glorydaz]

Do you know what kind of faith pleases God enough for Him to save us by His grace?
If you did, you wouldn't make the claim that men could boast about having that kind of faith.

James 4:6 6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.​

See those words "more grace"? That is not talking about saving faith which comes when we believe.

That is not talking about the Grace that saves through faith in the blood....SAVING GRACE.

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;​

We don't even access SAVING grace unless we have faith in the blood, much less given "more grace"

Romans 5:1-2KJV
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.​

You're confusing grace and faith that save with common grace.

Acts 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

2 Corinthians 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:​

 

[glorydaz]

Dispensationalism is man's attempt to separate Christians as a special group chosen by God to have a different fate than the fate of God's chosen people the children of Israel.
The fate of the children of Israel is clearly the fulfillment of God's promises to them.

Genesis 17:8 8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.​

It's known as being able to rightly divide the word.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.​

It's understanding that God has required different things at different times from different people. The Jews were required to offer sacrifices, for instance. You'll have to read the whole Bible to figure out the PLOT.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

And that is the question Jerry refuses to acknowledge.

I answered the question Right Divider asked here:

Jerry cannot read.

Could Israel be faithful without keeping the law?

No, but why do you not believe the words of the Lord Jesus concerning how the "individual" Jew who lived under the law received the gift of everlasting life?:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (Jn.5:24).​

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (Jn.11:25-26).​

I see nothing in any of these words of Lord Jesus which even hint that one of the requirements besides believing was to be faithful to the law. Of course all believers are called to be faithful but that is not a requirement to receive the "gift" of everlasting life.

glorydaz, if my answer has any errors then tell me what I said that is wrong. I am sure that you have a good reason why you think that the believing Jews who lived under the law had to do "works" in order to receive the "gift" of everlasting life. Tell us that reason.

Of course I do not expect you to reply because it is about this time that you always perform your disappearing act.

 

[binyamin7]

I am not aware of any place where he specifically stated when it started but he did write the following:

"Who can fail to mark the contrast between the earlier and the later chapters of the Acts of the Apostles? Measured by years the period they embrace is comparatively brief; but morally the latter portion of the narrative seems to belong to a different age. And such is in fact the case. A new dispensation has begun, and the Book of the Acts covers historically the period of the transition" (Sir Robert Anderson, The Silence of God [Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Publications, 1978], 45).​

An examination of the book of Acts reveals that it was at Acts 13 when Paul began to preach the "gospel of grace" to the Gentiles so that would be what Anderson was speaking about when he said that "the latter portion of the narrative seems to belong to a different age."

John Nelson Darby, considered by many to be the father of modern dispensationalism, taught that the present dispensation began after Acts 2:

"Reference to the second chapter of Galatians will confirm and establish the point historically as to the present dispensation, where not only is the fact stated of Paul having the ministry of the Gentiles, as Peter of the circumcision; but it was actually agreed on their conference, consequent upon the grace given, that Paul and Barnabas should go to the uncircumcision; and James, and Cephas, and John should go to the circumcision. And so far was the apostle's mind under Judaising influence, that it required a positive fresh revelation to induce him to go into company with a Gentile at all, and even after this he would not eat when certain came from James. In fact the Gentile dispensation, as a distinct thing, took its rise on the death of Stephen, the witness that the Jews resisted the Holy Ghost: as their fathers did, so did they" (John Nelson Darby, The Apostasy Of The Successive Dispensations).​

Although Darby taught that the Body of Christ began at Acts 2 he also recognized that the present dispensation did not start until later. I think that it was at Acts 7 when the nation of Israel was temporaily set aside as the LORD's agent upon the earth and that marks the beginning of the Body of Christ.

Peter had the ministry to the Gentiles before Paul did, See Acts 10 and then Acts 15:7 where he specifically says that HE WAS GIVEN THE MINISTRY TO THE GENTILES first. And then yes of course Paul assumed the ministry to them and would really push it to the next level.

This is just insanity that so many smart Bible readers believe this absurdity. It is akin to me having a ministry that specializes in reaching Muslims, or JW's, or Indians, and pretending each time is a new dispensation or something different than the active dispensation of the grace of God that started on Pentecost. It almost makes me ashamed to be a dispensationalist, if I had any doubt I was correct in my understanding on the subject this MAD gibberish could be enough to sway me into a replacement theology amillenialist.

 

[binyamin7]

Dispensationalism is what happens when biblical literalism goes too far and people start seeing things that aren't actually there. This is especially true when people incidentally have all kinds of shady reasons to cater to Israel nonstop while they take all your political seats which basically is pure cuckoldry on a silver platter and you wonder why people take issue with it.

This is probably the only conservative site where I haven't heard anyone say 'America First'
I wonder why :chuckle:

Dispensationalists take the Bible literally, true. Just like ALL prophecies we see fulfilled by Jesus' First advent, the Ezekiel prophecy against Tyre in Ez 26, The prophecy against Ninevah, Isaiah's prophecy naming Cyrus, etc etc etc are all fulfilled literally.

People like you are clearly fueled by antisemitism and refuse to take the Bible literally because of that.

 

[binyamin7]

Dispensationalism is man's attempt to separate Christians as a special group chosen by God to have a different fate than the fate of God's chosen people the children of Israel.
The fate of the children of Israel is clearly the fulfillment of God's promises to them.

Genesis 17:8 8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.​

I don't exactly understand what you are trying to say here.

 

[binyamin7]

It's known as being able to rightly divide the word.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.​

It's understanding that God has required different things at different times from different people. The Jews were required to offer sacrifices, for instance. You'll have to read the whole Bible to figure out the PLOT.

You catholicizer fruit examiners office ceo! (Am I doing it right?)

 

[binyamin7]

Of course I do not expect you to reply because it is about this time that you always perform your disappearing act.

You people are absolutely hysterical with this stuff ROFL.

 

[Right Divider]

Do you know what kind of faith pleases God enough for Him to save us by His grace?
If you did, you wouldn't make the claim that men could boast about having that kind of faith.

James 4:6 6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.​

Always back to a circumcision apostle.

What is the CONTEXT of James' statement?

 

[Right Divider]

See those words "more grace"? That is not talking about saving faith which comes when we believe.

Yep... GO is a "dictionary theologian", like far too many here on TOL.

A word search champion.

 

[musterion]

Dispensationalists take the Bible literally, true. Just like ALL prophecies we see fulfilled by Jesus' First advent, the Ezekiel prophecy against Tyre in Ez 26, The prophecy against Ninevah, Isaiah's prophecy naming Cyrus, etc etc etc are all fulfilled literally.

People like you are clearly fueled by antisemitism and refuse to take the Bible literally because of that.

Scratch a leftist, find a racist and antisemite.

Crucible is a leftist.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Peter had the ministry to the Gentiles before Paul did, See Acts 10 and then Acts 15:7 where he specifically says that HE WAS GIVEN THE MINISTRY TO THE GENTILES first. And then yes of course Paul assumed the ministry to them and would really push it to the next level.

Paul was the Apostle of the Gentiles and he was the firsr believer to preach the "gospel of grace" to the Gentiles. The gospel which Peter preached Cornelius was the same gospel which was preached to the Jews (Acts 10:36-37) and the same gospel which Paul preached to the Jews and the promise of that gospel was foretold by the OT prophets:

"Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead" (Ro.1:1-4).​

Again, this gospel was promised by the OT prophets and the heart and soul of this gospel is the truth that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. The Lord Jesus fulfilled the "gospel" (good news) concerning the coming Messiah of which the prophecies spoke.

On the other hand the gospel which Paul preached to the Gentiles was a "mystery" truth, or something which had been kept secret since the world began.

"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began" (Ro.16:25).​

You have probably been taught that only one gospel was preached during the Acts period and that is probably the source of your confusion. Common sense dictates that a gospel which was promised in the OT cannot possibly be the same gospel which was kept secret since the world began. And when you realize that the gospel which Paul preached to the Gentiles was different from the one Peter preached to the Gentiles and that the one which was preached to the Gentiles was the "gospel of grace" then it becomes obvious by Paul's own words concerning the "dispensation" which was given to him that the present dispensation did not begin until he began to preach that gospel to the Gentiles:

"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you" (Eph. 3:2).​

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God" (Col.1:25).​

"...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me" (1 Cor.9:17).​

The "dispensation" which was committed to Paul is in regard to "God's grace", a "ministry", and a "gospel." Here Paul sums up his dispensational responsibility:

"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20: 24).

The Acts record will be searched in vain for any evidence that Peter preached the gospel of grace on the day of Pentecost. Instead, the gospel he preached on that day was the same one foretold by the OT prophets. There is ZERO evidence that the present dispensation began on the day of Pentecost.

 

[Right Divider]

Peter had the ministry to the Gentiles before Paul did, See Acts 10 and then Acts 15:7 where he specifically says that HE WAS GIVEN THE MINISTRY TO THE GENTILES first. And then yes of course Paul assumed the ministry to them and would really push it to the next level.

Gentiles were always allowed to join with Israel. You're misunderstanding what Acts 15 is saying.

Cornelius was a righteous gentile as Act 10 describes:

• A devout man.
• Feared God.
• Gave much alms to "the people". (Guess who "the people" are).
• Prayed alway.
• Received a vision (not a normal situation).

Also Paul's ministry to the gentiles is completely different than Peter's one time event.

 

[Right Divider]

Of course I do not expect you to reply because it is about this time that you always perform your disappearing act.

You're on my ignore list, so I rarely see your posts.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Dispensationalism is man's attempt to separate Christians as a special group chosen by God to have a different fate than the fate of God's chosen people the children of Israel.

That's not what most dispensationalists teach.

Here is a summary from Wikipedia:

Dispensationalism - Distinction between Israel and the Church Dispensationalists profess a definite distinction between Israel and the Church. For dispensationalists, Israel is an ethnic nation consisting of Hebrews (Israelites), beginning with Abraham and continuing in existence to the present. The Church, on the other hand, consists of all saved individuals in this present dispensation—i.e., from the "birth of the Church" in Acts until the time of the Rapture. According to progressive dispensationalism in contrast to the older forms, the distinction between Israel and the Church is not mutually exclusive, as there is a recognized overlap between the two. The overlap consists of Jewish Christians such as Peter and Paul, who were ethnically Jewish and also had faith in Jesus. Dispensationalists believe that Israel as a nation will embrace Jesus as their messiah toward the end of the Great Tribulation, right before the Second Coming. Classical dispensationalists refer to the present-day Church as a "parenthesis" or temporary interlude in the progress of Israel's prophesied history. Progressive dispensationalism "softens" the Church/Israel distinction by seeing some Old Testament promises as expanded by the New Testament to include the Church. However, progressives never view this expansion as replacing promises to its original audience, Israel.

​

 

[genuineoriginal]

See those words "more grace"? That is not talking about saving faith which comes when we believe.

You can deny God's Grace if you want to, but you can only be saved by God's Grace and that is only given to those that please Him through their faith.

 

[genuineoriginal]

It's known as being able to rightly divide the word.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.​

It is unfortunate that Dispensationalism teaches how to wrongly split up the Bible instead of teaching how to handle scripture correctly.

It's understanding that God has required different things at different times from different people. The Jews were required to offer sacrifices, for instance. You'll have to read the whole Bible to figure out the PLOT.

There is a proper way to understand the Bible and then there are the Dispensationalist distortions.

The Bible does not teach that there are "Dispensations" where "God has required different things at different times from different people".
That is a distortion.

The Bible actually teaches that there are specific covenants that God made with specific people.
The covenants we need to be concerned with are written out clearly in the Bible.
(Unlike what Covenant Theology/Federalism claims about a vague "covenant of law" and a vague "covenant of grace" that can't be found in the Bible).

When trying to find out God's plans for Christians, Dispensationalists end up making up a bunch of nonsense that is not supported by any clearly written covenant in the Bible.

You can only find out what God's plans are for Christians through understanding the actual clearly written covenants in the Bible.

 

[Right Divider]

It is unfortunate that Dispensationalism teaches how to wrongly split up the Bible instead of teaching how to handle scripture correctly.

False, like so much of what you post.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Yep... GO is a "dictionary theologian", like far too many here on TOL.

A word search champion.

I am a Biblical theologian.
I study what the Bible ACTUALLY says and the message it was intended to convey to the original audience.
Most of the people on TOL (like you) refuse to do that because it messes up the non-Biblical doctrines you love.

 

[genuineoriginal]

False, like so much of what you post.

Dispensationalism is false, unlike much of what I post.