Dispensationaism Proven.

[genuineoriginal]

"Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne so that in eternity, '...never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet." Lewis S. Chafer, Systematic Theology (Dallas, Dallas Seminary Press, 1975), Vol. 4. pp. 315-323..

The highlighted part of Lewis S. Chafer's quote goes against what Paul wrote in Romans 11.

Romans 11:23-25 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.​

J. Dwight Pentecost is another dispensationalist theologian who in his
book Things To Come ( 1965) says "The church
and Israel are two distinct groups with whom God has a divine plan.
The church is a mystery, unrevealed in the Old Testament. (page 193,
J. Dwight Pentecost, Things To Come, Zondervan, 1965).

Paul stated that the mystery of the church is that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs of the covenants of promise with the commonwealth of Israel.

Ephesians 2:11-13 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.​

Ephesians 3:3-7 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.​

 

[binyamin7]

So are you saying that the gospel which the Twelve preached at Luke 9:6 declared that the Lord Jesus was crucified even though the Twelve didn't even know at that time that He was going to die?

No and neither did John the Baptists preaching. Now please, PLEASE, stop repeating this absolute definition of a MOOT point over and over. This is a word salad with no meaning.

 

[binyamin7]

You're likely to get banned for this practice.

That sounds like something a liberal would say...

 

[Jerry Shugart]

No and neither did John the Baptists preaching. Now please, PLEASE, stop repeating this absolute definition of a MOOT point over and over. This is a word salad with no meaning.

To you it is a moot point but you just can't accept the fact that the Twelve were not preaching a gospel which spoke of the death of the Lord Jesus while the heart and soul of the gospel Paul preached to the Gentiles is the fact that Christ died for our sins.

You throw your reason to the wind and assert that the Twelve were preaching the same gospel Paul preached to the Gentiles, that Christ died for our sins, even though the Twelve did not even know at that time that He was going to die.

Then you say it is a moot point.

 

[binyamin7]

To you it is a moot point but you just can't accept the fact that the Twelve were not preaching a gospel which spoke of the death of the Lord Jesus while the heart and soul of the gospel Paul preached to the Gentiles is the fact that Christ died for our sins.

You throw your reason to the wind and assert that the Twelve were preaching the same gospel Paul preached to the Gentiles that Christ died for our sins.

Then you say it is a moot point.

Peter clearly preached the full Gospel after Pentecost. Repeatedly. In Acts 15 Peter even said:

"Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

After this we see Peter and Paul wrote epistles to the same people interchangeably in 2 Peter 3:15-16. Then Peter also warns that people will invent things like that you are trying to say because they are confused by Paul's writings and "twisting them to their own destruction".

 

[Right Divider]

That sounds like something a liberal would say...

Your mind-reading skills have failed you this time.

It is explicitly not allowed to modify a quote to say something that someone DID NOT SAY.

It's a form of LYING.... though it shows what you are.

 

[binyamin7]

...

Can you please not comment in my threads if you refuse dialogue. We risk violating Titus 3:9.

 

[binyamin7]

Your mind-reading skills have failed you this time.

It is explicitly not allowed to modify a quote to say something that someone DID NOT SAY.

It's a form of LYING.... though it shows what you are.

I am not a liar and did not intentionally violate any rules. I am not sure if you are having an off day or just not the right personality for a debate forum.

 

[Right Divider]

Can you please not comment in my threads if you refuse dialogue. We risk violating Titus 3:9.

How can we dialog when you don't even read my posts?

As I mentioned earlier, before you went off the rails, that Peter never preaches the good news of the cross in Acts 1-8

He preaches the cross as an evil that Israel committed (Acts 2:36 "whom ye have crucified") and that's NOT good news.

The preaching of the cross as good news begins with Paul.

 

[Right Divider]

I am not a liar and did not intentionally violate any rules. I am not sure if you are having an off day or just not the right personality for a debate forum.

You don't even know what the rules are.

Newbies like you should have more respect from some of us that have been here for a long time. But no, you just rush in like a bull in a china shop.

 

[john w]

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...all-be-saved-even-as-they-quot-Acts-15-11-KJV

 

[glorydaz]

Because I dared to cast shade on their sacred calf, mid-acts dispensationalism. And instantly they came to defend their leader Enyart who they believe speaks ex-Cathedra.

Hey freak-a-zoid, how did you manage to creep into our forum? If you must come among us, you should at least show some respect to the owner of the house. We have no "sacred calf" and your ignorant claims will only result in your being shown the door.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Peter clearly preached the full Gospel after Pentecost.

The discussion was about the gospel which the Twelve preached at Luke 9:6. There is nothing said in that verse which even hints that the gospel they were preaching was anything less than a "full gospel."

They were preaching a full gospel and since at that time they didn't even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die they sure weren't preaching the gospel which Paul preached to the Gentiles which declares that Christ died for our sins.

When Paul preached the word he "reasoned out of the Scriptures" (Acts 17:2) but if we are to believe your explanation we must stand reason on its head. Can't you see that you are quickly losing your credibility on this forum since you refuse to use your ability to reason out of the Scriptures?

 

[Jacob]

It is not Biblical to say that God is saving people who reject Christ, and this is not what dispensationalism teaches.
It is also not Biblical to say that God completely replaced natural Israel, when in fact we are clearly told "All of [natural] Israel shall be saved" in the future in Romans 11:25-26.

We clearly see in Zechariah 12 that natural Israel will be surrounded and under attack from "all the nations" (Zech 12:2-3) and Israel prays and is sent the One "whom they pierced" (Zech12:10-11). So you see Israel gets saved by crying out humbly to YH and then Christ comes to save them. This lines up precisely with what Jesus said in Matt 23:39 when He said to the Pharisees and specifically Jerusalem they would "see Me no more till you say, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!". (Matt 23:37-39)

God will bring back natural Israel in the latter years (Ezek 37:12, 38:8, Lk 21:24, etc etc) and Honor the covenant He made with natural Israel in Genesis 15. How do we know this? Well two very clear reasons we can conclude this are:

1. God has spoken many unfulfilled prophecies pertaining to natural geographic Israel and surrounding nations that have yet to be fulfilled- and we are seeing them being fulfilled. (Dan 9:24-27, Ezek 37-39, Dan 11:35-12:4, Joel 3, Ps 83, Zech 12-14)
2. Paul very explicitly said that "Israel has been blinded in part until the period of the Gentiles is fulfilled. And so, as it is written, ALL OF ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED" -Romans 11:25-26.


Spiritually Jews and Gentiles are one in Christ, yet God still made a covenant with natural Israel in Gen 15 which He will honor. Men and women are one, and have different purposes and positions. Members of the Body of Christ are one, and still have different functions and purposes. This is not a contradiction.

If replacement theology was true, then why is God literally fulfilling all the prophecies in the Word systematically in front of our eyes?!

Does all of Israel shall be saved include all those of Israel who are indeed Israel because of their belief in God and Jesus as the Messiah and no one else? All of Israel for all of time in God's timing.

 

[Right Divider]

Peter clearly preached the full Gospel after Pentecost. Repeatedly. In Acts 15 Peter even said:

Acts 15 was LONG after Paul was called and also after Paul taught the 12 what God had revealed to him exclusively.

After this we see Peter and Paul wrote epistles to the same people interchangeably in 2 Peter 3:15-16. Then Peter also warns that people will invent things like that you are trying to say because they are confused by Paul's writings and "twisting them to their own destruction".

Please show us what it was that Paul "wrote to the same people interchangeably".

It would be wonderful if you could show us all where Peter preached the good news of the cross anywhere in Acts 1-8. Thanks in advance.

 

[binyamin7]

I feel like we are doing a lot of bonding in this thread.

 

[Stripe]

I feel like we are doing a lot of bonding in this thread.

I feel like you're making a lot of things up in this thread.

 

[northwye]

"If replacement theology was true, then why is God literally fulfilling all the prophecies in the Word systematically in front of our eyes?!"

What is "Replacement Theology?" I know that it is considered an "Enemy" of dispensationalism and I think it is Reformation theology, but with dispensationalists you never can tell.

And probably an "Enemy" of dispensationalism is Remnant Theology, if a dispensationalist knows what that is.

Remnant Theology says that at times when the multitude of people who consider themselves the people of God are off into false doctrines, that is, doctrines that disagree with many New Testament scriptures, that God raises up a remnant to carry on his work of redemption.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Not long after Paul was converted on the Damascus road he preached the following message to the Jews:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.....proving that this is the very Christ" (Acts 9:20,22).​

At that time Paul had not yet received the gospel which he was to preach among the Gentiles. He wrote the following:

"But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus" (Gal.1:15-17).​

When Paul received a gospel from the Lord Jesus on the Damascus road he immediately went to Damascus (Acts 9:6-8). But when he received the gospel which he preached among the Gentiles he went immediately into Arabia. That can only mean that two different gospels were preached during the Acts period.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Not long after Paul was converted on the Damascus road he preached the following message to the Jews:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.....proving that this is the very Christ" (Acts 9:20,22).​

At that time Paul had not yet received the gospel which he was to preach among the Gentiles. He wrote the following:

"But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus" (Gal.1:15-17).​

When Paul received a gospel from the Lord Jesus on the Damascus road he immediately went to Damascus (Acts 9:6-8). But when he received the gospel which he preached among the Gentiles he went immediately into Arabia. That can only mean that two different gospels were preached during the Acts period.

Paul spent three years in Arabia Damascus before going to see Peter in Jerusalem.
From Paul's writings and actions, it appears that Paul spent those three years in diligent study of the Old Testament.

Galatians 1:18 18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.​

Peter did not say Paul had a different gospel, Peter said that "unlearned and unstable" people twist Paul's words into something that leads only to destruction.

2 Peter 3:15-17 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.​

If you think Paul was preaching a different gospel than Peter, then that puts you in the category of "unlearned and unstable".