ECT Dispensation of Grace

[Cross Reference]

Don't be so sure I'm the one confused.

What did Jesus mean by "the kingdom is at hand" if it wasn't going to be established soon?

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (KJV)

Soon to be fulfilled at John 20:22 (KJV) Note who it was given to, those already prepared to receive it and by Jesus, the Man, Who now was enabled to administer it.

 

[heir]

I believe everything Paul says. Especially concerning our salvation.

No, you don't.

You argue against the very gospel that Paul preached denying that Paul's gospel was before a mystery (Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV).

You deny that Paul was first for a pattern to them which should thereafter ("hereafter") believe on Him to life everlasting (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV).

You deny eternal security for members of the Body of Christ (Romans 8:38-39 KJV, Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV, Colossians 2:10-13 KJV).

You deny that a dispensation of the gospel was committed unto him (1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV).

You deny that Paul was given a dispensation of the grace of God to us Gentiles and that it too was a mystery/unsearchable/hid in God (Ephesians 3:1-6 KJV).

 

[Cross Reference]

No, you don't.

You argue against the very gospel that Paul preached denying that Paul's gospel was before a mystery (Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV).

You deny that Paul was first for a pattern to them which should thereafter ("hereafter") believe on Him to life everlasting (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV).

You deny eternal security for members of the Body of Christ (Romans 8:38-39 KJV, Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV, Colossians 2:10-13 KJV).

You deny that a dispensation [a period of time] of the gospel was committed unto him (1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV).

You deny that Paul was given a dispensation of the grace of God to us Gentiles and that it too was a mystery/unsearchable/hid in God (Ephesians 3:1-6 KJV).

[Emphasis mine]

Dispensation only means a given period of time whereby one speaks or performs re a certain matter. That's all. . . . and your crowd turns it into a doctrine.

 

[heir]

I can respect that. Thanks for your time.

I'll just continue to show your error when you put your bad news and bad doctrine on here.

1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

 

[Right Divider]

That is exactly what 3,000 did.

God has made Him both Lord and Christ-this Jesus whom you crucified." 37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"

Yes, 3000 out of the hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of Israelites there at the time.

A very poor turnout at best.

I would suggest that what ignorant men understood isn't what we should base our understanding on.

These men were NOT ignorant which is apparent to anyone with even the slightest bit of discernment. Unless maybe you think that the LORD Jesus Christ is a poor instructor.

NOTE that Jesus did NOT point out this alleged "ignorance" because it is a figment of your wild imagination. Jesus simply told them that they were not to know the TIME.

If they really were confused about the CONTENT of the message, Jesus would have corrected them!

Paul preached the kingdom years after their question.
Acts 28:31 preaching the kingdom of God and teaching concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with all openness, unhindered.

In a much different sense. In some sense the kingdom of God has always existed. Jesus taught the twelve about the RESTORED kingdom of Israel, hence the completely intelligent question which the LORD did NOT correct!

It just makes more sense that Jesus said it was at hand and we see people being added to it, beginning at Pentecost. Paul said we are transferred to it in one of his last letters.
Col. 1:13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

You're just confused because you already believe what you want and then try to make the Bible say it.

 

[turbosixx]

Yes, 3000 out of the hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of Israelites there at the time.

A very poor turnout at best.


These men were NOT ignorant which is apparent to anyone with even the slightest bit of discernment. Unless maybe you think that the LORD Jesus Christ is a poor instructor.

NOTE that Jesus did NOT point out this alleged "ignorance" because it is a figment of your wild imagination. Jesus simply told them that they were not to know the TIME.

If they really were confused about the CONTENT of the message, Jesus would have corrected them!


In a much different sense. In some sense the kingdom of God has always existed. Jesus taught the twelve about the RESTORED kingdom of Israel, hence the completely intelligent question which the LORD did NOT correct!


You're just confused because you already believe what you want and then try to make the Bible say it.

I'm hear to understand if I'm confused or not. Yes, I believe a certain way, you talk like that's a bad thing. You don't?

You might have a point with you reply if the promises were made to children of the flesh but they are not.

Rom. 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "through Isaac your descendants will be named." 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Who are the children of promise? I understand Abraham had two sons and one was by promise but he says it's not children of the flesh including children of Isaac.

The kingdom of Israel was restored and the people of that kingdom are Christians.
Gal. 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.

The promise was to Christ and the children of promise are Christians.
3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus......29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

Christians are the Israel of prophecy and meet the same physical requirements but spiritually.

Children of Abraham:
Gal. 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants,

Circumcised by Christ:
Col. 2:11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

You see things carnally not spiritually.

 

[turbosixx]

No, you don't.

You argue against the very gospel that Paul preached denying that Paul's gospel was before a mystery (Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV).

You deny that Paul was first for a pattern to them which should thereafter ("hereafter") believe on Him to life everlasting (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV).

You deny eternal security for members of the Body of Christ (Romans 8:38-39 KJV, Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV, Colossians 2:10-13 KJV).

You deny that a dispensation of the gospel was committed unto him (1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV).

You deny that Paul was given a dispensation of the grace of God to us Gentiles and that it too was a mystery/unsearchable/hid in God (Ephesians 3:1-6 KJV).

I do believe Paul, I just don't believe your take on him. Yes, you use scripture but so does everyone else to prove their points.

 

[turbosixx]

I'll just continue to show your error when you put your bad news and bad doctrine on here.

1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Works for me . I'm here to challenge and better understand what I believe. If I can't prove it, then I need to take a harder look at it.

 

[Right Divider]

I'm hear to understand if I'm confused or not. Yes, I believe a certain way, you talk like that's a bad thing. You don't?

Poor turbs, you're HERE to understand?

I guess you're of the mind that everyone's opinions are equally valid? No, opinions vary ... some are good and some are not.

You are not willing to understand the PLAIN things in the Bible.

You might have a point with you reply if the promises were made to children of the flesh but they are not.

Rom. 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "through Isaac your descendants will be named." 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

When God chose Israel, He most certainly chose them IN THE FLESH. This false understanding of what "flesh" means in regards to His selection of Israel (Jacob's descendants) was most definitely related to the PHYSICAL relationship to Jacob ( and Abraham). The SIGN of circumcision was in his FLESH.

Who are the children of promise? I understand Abraham had two sons and one was by promise but he says it's not children of the flesh including children of Isaac.

Which promise? There are MANY in the Bible.

The kingdom of Israel was restored and the people of that kingdom are Christians.
Gal. 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.

That is absolutely laughable. ONCE AGAIN, the twelve asked JESUS CHRIST about the restoration of the kingdom TO ISRAEL and JESUS CHRIST did not bat an eye! He did NOT correct them which CLEARLY shows that they correctly understood what JESUS CHRIST has taught them during the PRIOR FORTY DAYS!

The promise was to Christ and the children of promise are Christians.
3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus......29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

Indeed, you get this from the writing of PAUL.

Christians are the Israel of prophecy and meet the same physical requirements but spiritually.

Hogwash learned somewhere other than the Bible.

Children of Abraham:
Gal. 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants,

Circumcised by Christ:
Col. 2:11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

You see things carnally not spiritually.

You do NOT understand the difference between carnal and physical, just like a number of other confused posers here on TOL.

Is this carnal?

Mat 1:1-17 KJV The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. (2) Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; (3) And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; (4) And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon; (5) And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; (6) And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; (7) And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa; (8) And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias; (9) And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias; (10) And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; (11) And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: (12) And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel; (13) And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor; (14) And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud; (15) And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; (16) And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. (17) So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
​

 

[Dialogos]

In his early ministry he did. However in the later years he came to say I did not come to baptize but to preach the Gospel. See the following article. It may clarify some issues for you.

http://graceambassadors.com/tradition/baptism/why-did-paul-baptize

That article is deeply flawed.

Turbosixx is right to reject it outright.

 

[patrick jane]

That article is deeply flawed.

Turbosixx is right to reject it outright.

You have no concept of scripture

 

[Totton Linnet]

The law came through Moses but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ, of His grace [only Paul received] grace upon grace.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The law came through Moses but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ, of His grace [only Paul received] grace upon grace.

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

 

[turbosixx]

You are not willing to understand the PLAIN things in the Bible.

What's more PLAIN? That Jesus established the kingdom that was prophesied OR man foiled the plan so God had to create a new plan?

When God chose Israel, He most certainly chose them IN THE FLESH. This false understanding of what "flesh" means in regards to His selection of Israel (Jacob's descendants) was most definitely related to the PHYSICAL relationship to Jacob ( and Abraham). The SIGN of circumcision was in his FLESH.

Yes, they were of the flesh that's why he says it's not children of the flesh that are regarded as children.
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Are you not one of God's children?

Which promise? There are MANY in the Bible.

Have you not read? Do you not understand?

That is absolutely laughable. ONCE AGAIN, the twelve asked JESUS CHRIST about the restoration of the kingdom TO ISRAEL and JESUS CHRIST did not bat an eye! He did NOT correct them which CLEARLY shows that they correctly understood what JESUS CHRIST has taught them during the PRIOR FORTY DAYS!

Are you really going to base your understanding on a question by men? Yes, they figured it should be here that's why Jesus didn't go through the trouble of answering them. They were to receive the HS in a few days, then they would understand.
If Jesus didn't establish the kingdom and it's still in the future, then what is this?
Col. 1:13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

Is this carnal?

Mat 1:1-17 KJV The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. (2) Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; (3) And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; (4) And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon; (5) And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; (6) And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; (7) And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa; (8) And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias; (9) And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias; (10) And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; (11) And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: (12) And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel; (13) And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor; (14) And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud; (15) And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; (16) And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. (17) So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
​

So these are Jesus' spiritual descendants?



Jesus told Peter "I will build my church" and "I will give you the keys of the kingdom".

Peter used the keys on Pentecost to let 3,000 in.
41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.

Souls were added, SPIRITUAL.



John 18:36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."

 

[turbosixx]

The law came through Moses but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ, of His grace [only Paul received] grace upon grace.

So these people received the forgiveness of sins and the Holy Spirit by the law of Moses?
Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Cross Reference]

So these people received the forgiveness of sins and the Holy Spirit by the law of Moses?
Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Did they not receive forgiveness of their sins? Was repentance withheld them?

 

[turbosixx]

Did they not receive forgiveness of their sins?

Yes

Was repentance withheld them?

I'm not sure I understand your question. 3,000 were added so I would say they repented.

 

[Cross Reference]

Yes



I'm not sure I understand your question. 3,000 were added so I would say they repented.

My reply was meant to address the issue of the OT law, you referred to. sorry.

 

[turbosixx]

My reply was meant to address the issue of the OT law, you referred to. sorry.

Cool. I just wanted to be sure I understand you questions.

 

[turbosixx]

That article is deeply flawed.

Turbosixx is right to reject it outright.

I did eventually read it and your right, it's flawed. That's the main reason I don't read those things, it's a mans spin. If the person I'm conversing with understands what they believe, they should be able to explain it.