• This is a new section being rolled out to attract people interested in exploring the origins of the universe and the earth from a biblical perspective. Debate is encouraged and opposing viewpoints are welcome to post but certain rules must be followed. 1. No abusive tagging - if abusive tags are found - they will be deleted and disabled by the Admin team 2. No calling the biblical accounts a fable - fairy tale ect. This is a Christian site, so members that participate here must be respectful in their disagreement.

Dinosaurs are fake and leads to atheism!

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
No, it's actually a fact.

The odds are zero.

There is not a single scientific fact that supports the idea of life from non-life based on natural processes.
Nope. There's no reason to suspect that we cannot synthesize all the biochemicals needed to make a soup that can generate fresh life. Once you have all the right chemicals in the right proportion all you need to do is build a structure. You're going to build dozens of structures, and they are all functioning, but this isn't going to function due to the application of force, which is what we'd expect, or heat, or some other physical impression that we can make on the chemicals. I will come from the biochemicals themselves. They're like computer code and operating systems and firmware and apps. Although this sounds very complex and complicated not to worry, because the language used only uses four letters, which means it's no more than eight times as complex as a binary language like computers, and we all know the limitations of what you can program a computer to do. Once we know the code, we can definitely synthesize the molecules, we just have to build the structures required to make life with all the right molecules we synthesized, and then the molecules themselves will direct the structure that we have to make after that, because of the code we 'built' into the organic synthesis of the chemicals, that are used to build the structures that we need to make life. If that is what you call "zero" odds then you're categorically incorrect. It's logically possible, it's just 'basically impossible' that anything like this could ever happen, for real. It'd be far more likely to flick a deck of cards onto the floor and that it assembled into a house, than that abiogenesis occurred, but that doesn't make it literally impossible, logically impossible.
 

Skeeter

Well-known member
Banned
So how does that look? A mother of one species gives birth to or lays multiples both male and female who can only marry each other to multiply? Basically every species is ultimately a product of full sibling incest?
THAT is the discrete STEP and is an unusual scenario we sometimes see with plants.

Think of it like this: there are changes in the frequency of gene combinations across generations. The old version survives with the new but the new is somewhat more successful and all are still the same species. Divergence happens sometimes due to geographic separation. Subspecies develop and further changes accumulate. There is sometimes a period where mating is still possible but offspring are sterile. Then, reproduction becomes incompatible.

So, mama dogs never have kittens.
 

Skeeter

Well-known member
Banned
When it comes to science, it's best to keep imagination completely out of it.
That's actually a major problem with the "theory" of evolution, it's almost entirely imagination.
When formulating hypotheses, imagination is invaluable. You are one to talk. You advocate using imagination in the conclusions and injecting imagination into data.

You know how the term theory is more like theorem in science, yet you troll with the casual definition. Why? Do you hope readers won't carch that?
Adaptation uses already existing genetic information. Nothing to see there.

Evolution is adaptation across generations. Say that over and over. Learn the definition. Get this down once and for all.
So here you use the usual evolutionist trick of equivocating terms. In this case "evolve" with "adapt". Shame on you.

Double shame on you for projecting your trick on me. You are no good at three card monty.
Again, an ADAPTATION based on ALREADY EXISTING genetic information.

Again - you are wrong. Mutation can add info. Sometimes a mutation is a mistaken repeated protein. The environment imbues meaning when the mistake ends up helping or hurting. If neutral that is genetic drift that can combine with another mutation later to be - wait for it-- new information.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
THAT is the discrete STEP and is an unusual scenario we sometimes see with plants.

Think of it like this: there are changes in the frequency of gene combinations across generations. The old version survives with the new but the new is somewhat more successful and all are still the same species. Divergence happens sometimes due to geographic separation. Subspecies develop and further changes accumulate. There is sometimes a period where mating is still possible but offspring are sterile. Then, reproduction becomes incompatible.

So, mama dogs never have kittens.
So the problem with the evidence is the lack of 'intermediate' species. We should, you would expect, see a much more continuous fossil record than we do, if what you're proposing is what actually happened. It's not proof positive that you're wrong, it's just consistent with a six day creation as well.
 

Skeeter

Well-known member
Banned
Speciation is not upward progress. So that is irrelevant.

Of course its relevant. Evolution is tinkering with structures you already got with small tweaks often finding an entirely new purpose.
You're fixating on species which does nothing to help your "theory".
Speciation is completely compatible with the Creation Model of origins.
How so? Did God create kinds to be like transformers? More than meets the eye? This hippo can become a dolphin by design?
 

Skeeter

Well-known member
Banned
So the problem with the evidence is the lack of 'intermediate' species.
They are not easy to find. Transitional individuals are often less numerous than the more successful stabilized version. Even so, we are finding more and more evidence of intermediate phases.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
They are not easy to find. Transitional individuals are often less numerous than the more successful stabilized version. Even so, we are finding more and more evidence of intermediate phases.
But the story, if it's true, seems to support that they should be the norm and not exceptional.
 

Skeeter

Well-known member
Banned
But the story, if it's true, seems to support that they should be the norm and not exceptional.
Actually every fossil is a transitional member, but fossils only survive in particular places and for particular times due to environmental conditions not because of the living creature the fossils are based on.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Nope. There's no reason to suspect that we cannot synthesize all the biochemicals needed to make a soup that can generate fresh life.
That is NOT natural... so it's disqualified from the start.... try again.
Once you have all the right chemicals in the right proportion all you need to do is build a structure.
Just so stories are the evolutionists "go to".
You're going to build dozens of structures, and they are all functioning, but this isn't going to function due to the application of force, which is what we'd expect, or heat, or some other physical impression that we can make on the chemicals. I will come from the biochemicals themselves.
Laughable.
They're like computer code and operating systems and firmware and apps.
All created by intelligent beings.
Although this sounds very complex and complicated not to worry, because the language used only uses four letters, which means it's no more than eight times as complex as a binary language like computers, and we all know the limitations of what you can program a computer to do.
As a computer software engineer, all I can say is that this is hilarious.
Once we know the code, we can definitely synthesize the molecules,
Again, this is NOT a natural process.
we just have to build the structures required to make life with all the right molecules we synthesized, and then the molecules themselves will direct the structure that we have to make after that, because of the code we 'built' into the organic synthesis of the chemicals, that are used to build the structures that we need to make life. If that is what you call "zero" odds then you're categorically incorrect.
🤪
It's logically possible, it's just 'basically impossible' that anything like this could ever happen, for real. It'd be far more likely to flick a deck of cards onto the floor and that it assembled into a house, than that abiogenesis occurred, but that doesn't make it literally impossible, logically impossible.
Again, there is NOT a SINGLE scientific fact to support life from non-life by natural processes.
 
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Skeeter

Well-known member
Banned
That is NOT natural... so it's disqualified from the start.... try again.
Typical Divider Tactic. Require seeing something under laboratory conditions. Then criticize the artificial conditions. Then equate the researcher with a designer, and discount the whole thing. A nasty shell game.

Divider cannot see the elegance in converging lines of inquiry. 1) Discover minerals available in primordial earth {field study/ geology}. 2) See if the minerals dissolve into necessary building blocks under conditions {heat, light, and radioactivity} available at the time. 3) Simulate various conditions {deep sea vent / shallow puddles that dry out intermittently} to see if protocells emerge.​
Just so stories are the evolutionists "go to".

Laughable.
Hebephrenics will laugh at anything.
 

Skeeter

Well-known member
Banned
You're as bad as Skeeter.

If you want to talk science, talk science.

If you want to just make unsupported claims, just give up.
LOL. The existence of life is great evidence that there must have been a designer, but terrible to refute the statement there is no evidence whatsoever of abiogenesis? What an ultra maroon!
 

Right Divider

Body part
Typical Divider Tactic.
Liar.
Require seeing something under laboratory conditions.
Well... the scientific method is not about speculation.
Then criticize the artificial conditions.
Artificial conditions that requires a HUMAN INTELLIGENCE to devise is hardly the sort of conditions that your theory requires.
Then equate the researcher with a designer, and discount the whole thing.
Those researchers that are designing experiments are designers. Duh!
Yes, I do discount this because it's not realistic in any sense.
A nasty shell game.
Nope.
Divider cannot see the elegance in converging lines of inquiry.​
Again, you imagination is getting the best of you.
1) Discover minerals available in primordial earth {field study/ geology}.​
You nor anyone else KNOWS what "minerals were available in primordial earth". They have, once again, imaginative ideas about that. But nothing real to go on.
2) See if the minerals dissolve into necessary building blocks under conditions {heat, light, and radioactivity} available at the time.​
Again, AT THE TIME is an imagined condition with tons of problems that you ignore.
3) Simulate various conditions {deep sea vent / shallow puddles that dry out intermittently} to see if protocells emerge.​
Hilarious. Protocells are another figment of your vivid imagination.
Hebephrenics will laugh at anything.
False accusation made by a scientist wannabe.
 
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Right Divider

Body part
LOL. The existence of life is great evidence that there must have been a designer, but terrible to refute the statement there is no evidence whatsoever of abiogenesis? What an ultra maroon!
The maroon is named Skeeter.

We are talking about TWO POSSIBLE ways to get life.

We know for a fact that natural processes do not have any way to create life.

Life is here... the other more obvious choice is a CREATOR.
 

Skeeter

Well-known member
Banned
Liar.

Well... the scientific method is not about speculation.

Sure -- except that is exactly what a hypothesis is.
Artificial conditions that requires a HUMAN INTELLIGENCE to devise is hardly the sort of conditions that your theory requires.

Those researchers that are designing experiments are designers. Duh!
Yes, I do discount this because it's not realistic in any sense.
Looking at independent variables, under the investigator's control, and dependent variables that are free to vary and are results we hope to predict based on our hypothesis ISOLATES the relationship we are examining from the examiners's control. Do not confuse Designing an experiment with an experiment that impacts on whether there was a designer of life.

Divider, you are mixing things into a terrible goo.
 
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Skeeter

Well-known member
Banned
We are talking about TWO POSSIBLE ways to get life.
Yes.
We know for a fact that natural processes do not have any way to create life.

That is what we are trying to determine. Think of ways to prove or disprove your hypothesis, But, by all means do not confuse the hypothesis with the conclusion.
Life is here... the other more obvious choice is a CREATOR.
The fact that life is here is evidence of either hypothesis -- so it is not evidence that differentiates the two. It is weak foundational evidence. Grasp this and you can move passed START.
 

Right Divider

Body part
That is what we are trying to determine. Think of ways to prove or disprove your hypothesis, But, by all means do not confuse the hypothesis with the conclusion.
I'm well aware of how science works. So far you've simply made vague claims without any support whatsoever.

If you'd like to try to START to support your bogus "theory"... by all means START.
The fact that life is here is evidence of either hypothesis -- so it is not evidence that differentiates the two.
Nobody made such a claim (that the mere existence of life supports their claim about its origin).
It is weak foundational evidence. Grasp this and you can move passed START.
Funny, as usual.
 

Skeeter

Well-known member
Banned
I'm well aware of how science works. So far you've simply made vague claims without any support whatsoever.

If you'd like to try to START to support your bogus "theory"... by all means START.

Nobody made such a claim (that the mere existence of life supports their claim about its origin).

Funny, as usual.
Go back to START. Everything I send to YOU turns to GOO. Do Better.
 
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