Because 16:26 is referring to Paul's writings.
By the way, where do you see this mystery in Romans that Paul mentions in 16:25.
I mean that; as I am hoping we are simply comparing notes - I harbor no animosity towards you (and yours, lol)
Theology Club: Differences btw Old Covenant, New Covenant and Fellowship of the Mystery
- Thread starter musterion
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Because 16:26 is referring to Paul's writings.
By the way, where do you see this mystery in Romans that Paul mentions in 16:25.
I mean that; as I am hoping we are simply comparing notes - I harbor no animosity towards you (and yours, lol)
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
How do you know that?
Can you not see the independent parts of 1 Cor 15:1-4 (KJV) looking back at the prophets?
Here is a question for you - what is Paul's point in 1 Cor. 15 that he feels the need to bring up what he repeates in 1-4?
By the way; thanks for the back and forth on these things; I'm enjoying its challenge
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Here is a question for you - what is Paul's point in 1 Cor. 15 that he feels the need to bring up what he repeates in 1-4?
By the way; thanks for the back and forth on these things; I'm enjoying its challenge
"According to the scriptures"
He met these in a synagogue. What were the scriptures he used?
heir
TOL Subscriber
fellowship!
heir
TOL Subscriber
I know I do as I 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV. There's no point in the passage if there is nothing that needs to be rightly divided. Paul's epistles must be or you (like the religious system) end up with contradictions that must be spiritualized away. Break out the hip waders for the MUD.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Your rejection of the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom is sadly noted.
1 Corinthians 2:7 KJV -
heir
TOL Subscriber
Amen and Paul tells us why it was a mystery! 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Danoh rejects that the fact that Christ was dying for some men's sins was hidden in plain sight (hidden wisdom of God) in the scriptures, but that is the only way Paul can tell us it was both a mystery (Romans 16:25 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV) and "according to the scriptures" (1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV, Romans 16:26 KJV).
Nope.
I differ in my understanding of all that.
That part of 1 Corinthians 2 is after the part about Christ having died for sins.
The gospel of the grace of God having been the babes in Christ status the Corinthians had failed to grow out of in their carnality.
As a result, Paul found himself having to lament...
1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
He had found them not advanced in their understanding of the Cross to where he might share the purpose behind its salvation - the Mystery.
The Body's glory in and with the Lord of Glory in Glory according to said Mystery.
This Mystery spells out, not God's plan for the Earth; but for those falllen high places in the Heavenlies, and by that, making possible His plan for the Earth, Eph. 1:10; 6:12.
Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
The Adversary had offered the Lord the kingdoms of this world only as a means against God's PROPHESIED aspect in God's Man: the Man; Christ Jesus.
Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
The Adversary had believed he would still have (in his mind anyway) that "spiritual wickedness in high places" which; is actually the key to both aspects of God's Two-Fold Purpose: Prophecy and Mystery.
Ephesians 2: 2's "the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:" being run by those "principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world," that "spiritual wickedness in high places" Eph. 6:12.
Making this...
Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Impossible to God's desired intent until the sum up of it all as one in One.
Ephesians 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Turned out God's PROPHESIED aspect: His plan to reconcile THE EARTH back unto Himself BY THE CROSS, had NOT been all that God had planned to TAKE BACK the captivity of BY THE CROSS.
That is what Paul is lamenting in 1 Cor. 2 - his being unable to edify the Corinthians in much of that...
Why?
1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
Thus, Paul's "Howbeit" in 1 Cor. 2:6.
Like I said, heir; we differ our understanding of the basic fundamentals all else is the result of.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Paul had to speak unto them as babes, determining not to know anything among them, save Jesus Christ and Him crucified, but to do so was speaking mystery which was the hidden wisdom of God/mystery/hidden in the scriptures.
1 Corinthians 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
1 Corinthians 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
1 Corinthians 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1 Corinthians 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
verses 6-8 show the power of God (the preaching of the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV, 1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV) which is speaking the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom.
Paul did not preach the gospel of the grace of God to the Corinthians as that was a due time message to all men that came later (Acts 20:24 KJV, 1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV). The gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) is the gospel that Paul preached: Christ crucified unto them which were called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1 Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1 Corinthians 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
You cited Ephesians 1:12 KJV, but left out Ephesians 1:13 KJV. That's half of the Body of Christ! That's where we fit into God's magnificent mystery plan (the fellowship of the mystery, where we are fellowheirs and of the same Body and partakers of God's promise in Christ by the gospel! Ephesians 3:6 KJV). That's a mystery unsearchable and hid in God (Ephesians 3:8-9 KJV)! It's the manifold wisdom of God made known unto the principalities and powers by the church according to the eternal purpose which He purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord!
Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Ephesians 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Why do you act as if it is merely reiteration?
1 Corinthians 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
1 Corinthians 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
1 Corinthians 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1 Corinthians 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
verses 6-8 show the power of God (the preaching of the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV, 1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV) which is speaking the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom.
Paul did not preach the gospel of the grace of God to the Corinthians as that was a due time message to all men that came later (Acts 20:24 KJV, 1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV). The gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) is the gospel that Paul preached: Christ crucified unto them which were called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1 Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1 Corinthians 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
You cited Ephesians 1:12 KJV, but left out Ephesians 1:13 KJV. That's half of the Body of Christ! That's where we fit into God's magnificent mystery plan (the fellowship of the mystery, where we are fellowheirs and of the same Body and partakers of God's promise in Christ by the gospel! Ephesians 3:6 KJV). That's a mystery unsearchable and hid in God (Ephesians 3:8-9 KJV)! It's the manifold wisdom of God made known unto the principalities and powers by the church according to the eternal purpose which He purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord!
Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Ephesians 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Why do you act as if it is merely reiteration?
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SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
We should rightly divide the word of truth, but if we rightly divide Paul's letters (which contain the word of truth-the gospel of our salvation) we suddenly become heretics.
I cannot unsee the fellowship of the mystery, and refuse to mix all 13 letters as if there are no differences.
I cannot unsee the fellowship of the mystery, and refuse to mix all 13 letters as if there are no differences.
heir
TOL Subscriber
The term wasn't even mentioned until 2 Timothy! If this were just about rightly dividing the gospel of our salvation, it would have been put in much earlier!
Amen, brother! I'll never make MUD pie again!
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I can't imagine Paul telling someone today from Michigan that they are a child of Abraham, knowing that Israel has been cast away for nearly 2000 years, and knowing that the blessing of Genesis 12 hinges upon blessing/associating with that great nation.
Heretics?
I have already posted to you two in the past on here, that I do not view either of you through the lens of Romans 16:17.
That is your extreme; not mine.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
her·e·tic
ˈherəˌtik/
noun
a person believing in or practicing religious heresy.
synonyms: dissenter, nonconformist, apostate, freethinker, iconoclast; More
a person holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted.
ˈherəˌtik/
noun
a person believing in or practicing religious heresy.
synonyms: dissenter, nonconformist, apostate, freethinker, iconoclast; More
a person holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted.
(Tongue in cheek) Forgive me; I was thinking Paul's use of that word in the KJV I swear to at ALL times.
I do NOT see you two in his sense of it in 1 Cor. 11.
Which, by the way; heir sent me a link to two audios by one of your former own who completely screwed up Paul's sense of that word in 1 Corinthians 11.
First impression, surface level reading having been the obvious culprit once more.
Anyway, I simply see that we differ in our understanding of some things due to our difference in study approach.
No "Citizen's Arrest!" here :chuckle:
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heir
TOL Subscriber
This is why I rarely share links on here. You ask for it as if out of a wanting to learn something only to throw it in my face later. And you are the one who lacks spiritual understanding of 1 Corinthians 11. Shawn did the most thorough treatment on the topic of the ever misapplied Lord's supper even by those who claim to RD as yourself and Paul's making mention of it in 1 Corinthians 11 that I have ever had the pleasure to hear in study.
That's what you say about everyone who hasn't been spoiled by your false premises based on presupposition rooted in traditions of men.
No, you accuse us often of "First impression, surface level reading". When really the differences are here because you refuse to 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV.
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I asked you for info on your understanding of the Lord's Supper; because I'd thought I'd seen something on my own that appeared similar to your assertion against said Supper's practice.
And I still appreciate your having shared them.
While listenting to Shawn, I agreed he did a good job with passages on various issues as to the Lord's Supper and the Twelve up to and prior to his handling of 1 Cor. 11.
But then, when he went into his take on 1 Cor. 11; he right off got two passages wrong; one of them being his attributing to Paul's use of the word "heresies" a sense foreign to Paul's use there.
The other being what he said about the passage Paul begins that section with.
As I right off took issue with his sense of those two he was obviously off on.
Late, I decided to study everything out from the principle I could not but see he had NOT made use of.
While doing that; I found I myself had violated that principle as well; back when I had thought I'd seen something in the passages there that possibly appeared to agree with your stance against the practice of the Lord's Supper.
I am that scrupulous in my studying out of a thing when I am in its "zone" (as in "being in the zone").
I am not simply differing with you out of some tradition - other than diligence in my studies as many times as required til the passages reveal their intended sense.
In short NO; I was not up to no good- that is your projection once more, regretabbly.