musterion
Well-known member
Even a blind squirrel is right twice a day.
ECT Desire spiritual gifts.
- Thread starter Lazy afternoon
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Even a blind squirrel is right twice a day.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Counter argument?
You have a counter argument?
Can't wait to see your counter argument to God's clear calling.
Can't wait to see God counter argue with Acts 1:8 or Acts 2:38 or I Corinthians 12-14 or Ephesians 1:18-21
John, you want to remain ignorant of spiritual matters, that is your choice.
And it is clear that you and your buddies would rather be ignorant and unbelieving about spiritual matters than learn and believe.
Your problem
oatmeal
Well-known member
Since it is given to every man, that would include you.
Why are you not seeking to learn to put them to use instead of whining?
there are spiritual gifts besides the gift of eternal life/salvation/holy spirit.
Ephesians 4:8,11
There are right places in the body for apostles and prophets and evangelists and pastors and teachers to be serving.
They serve God and are necessary for the maturing of the saints.
Different people/places have different needs, the people are to desire (by believing prayer ) that what they need to mature will be there
oatmeal
Well-known member
Thing is I have witnessed so much abuse of spiritual gifts over the years that I am always skeptical when I see them in action now. However, I have also seen the genuine in action and used under the inspiration of The Holy Spirit they are a great boon to the church and a great source of edification.
Pete
Of course you have seen abuse of spiritual gifts and manifestations.
People tend to ignore God's instructions on the proper use of the gifts and manifestations
do you think that the Ten Commandments given to the children of Israel were given because the people were already doing it right?
Or how about Ephesians 4:32 Why would God tell His people that if they were already doing it right?
There is a complete set of instructions in scripture on how to use God's gifts and callings to His glory and our benefit without mocking God and making fools of ourselves.
God's people do not always live up to all of scripture.
revpete
New member
I don't think that it's fraud because that would mean that it's a deliberate action. You can't commit fraud by accident. I think, well at least in the vast majority of cases that I've heard it's more a case of genuine believers letting their fleshly enthusiasm get the better of them. The genuine is out there after all.
Pete
revpete
New member
Desire spiritual gifts.
Yep, amen there! However, don't you think that there's more to using the gifts correctly than following a set of instructions. Take this the right way but you make it sound like building a model airplane lol. IMO if the gifts are used in conjunction with the fruit (which IMO is more important) then the required result would be achieved ie The Lord glorified and His people edified.
Pete
Yep, amen there! However, don't you think that there's more to using the gifts correctly than following a set of instructions. Take this the right way but you make it sound like building a model airplane lol. IMO if the gifts are used in conjunction with the fruit (which IMO is more important) then the required result would be achieved ie The Lord glorified and His people edified.
Pete
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musterion
Well-known member
There has been no abuse of signs and wonders since Paul's day...can't abuse that which doesn't exist anymore. All that Christendom has seen has been lies, self-delusion or demonic counterfeit. Babbling nonsense 'tongues,' blood'weeping statues or Pio's stigmata...all the same. They're from the flesh or from demons but are not of God.
If you have the Holy Ghost He will manifest.
musterion
Well-known member
His fruit, yes. But Himself? He draws focus to Christ, He does not draw attention to Himself.
bump for oatmeal.
So the He is allowed to develop fruit at least [it's a good job He knows His bounds] Yes He manifests Christ in us.
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revpete
New member
Careful now musty, you don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. However, that aside I do understand where you are coming from and there is an argument from scripture to substantiate what you say. After considerable study on this subject and reading all I could get my hands on that speak against the gifts I still feel that both scripturally and historically the gifts of The Holy Spirit used properly are a great blessing from The Lord in the edification of His church.
Pete
oatmeal
Well-known member
Look at the major subjects of I Corinthians 12-14
A lot is covered, including the chapter on love.
Chapter 13 is nestled between 12 and 14 because it is supposed to be there.
Love is the prime motivation. not self glory or anything else.
Love of God and love to fellow believers
All the instructions of chapter 12 and 14 are to be activated by love.
The misuse of the manifestations mock God who gave them for profit.
I Corinthians 12:7-11
If we are going to ignore 12 and 14, then it follows that chapter 13 should be ignored as well.
If we are to exalt chapter 13 we must recognize the context in which it is presented.
the manifestations are part of love and love requires we make use of the manifestations.
revpete
New member
revpete
New member
musterion
Well-known member
Careful now musty, you don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. However, that aside I do understand where you are coming from and there is an argument from scripture to substantiate what you say. After considerable study on this subject and reading all I could get my hands on that speak against the gifts I still feel that both scripturally and historically the gifts of The Holy Spirit used properly are a great blessing from The Lord in the edification of His church.
Pete
Then do them.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Do them-"if it's good enough for the apostles, it's good enough for you."
We thought so. Fraud-ette. Poser-ette.
Don't see all those Pentecostal filthy rich evangelists?