Denying the Power thereof !

[beloved57]

2 Tim 3:5

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

The teaching of the false view that Christ died for all individuals without exception, and yet its a given all individuals without exception will be saved, for some will surely die in their sins, yet teaching such, its denying the power of Christs atoning death ! Many do this in the name of godliness, but its only a form thereof. Universal redemption denies the power and efficacy of Christ’s blood. It is a doctrine that teaches that the Lord Jesus did not really accomplish anything by his death on the cross, but only made it possible for sinners to be redeemed, justified, and saved. DF

 

[Nanja]

2 Tim 3:5

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

The teaching of the false view that Christ died for all individuals without exception, and yet its a given all individuals without exception will be saved, for some will surely die in their sins, yet teaching such, its denying the power of Christs atoning death ! Many do this in the name of godliness, but its only a form thereof. Universal redemption denies the power and efficacy of Christ’s blood. It is a doctrine that teaches that the Lord Jesus did not really accomplish anything by his death on the cross, but only made it possible for sinners to be redeemed, justified, and saved. DF

Exactly stated Brother ! So what this false religious teaching of universal redemption has accomplished, is that it completely strips the Absolute Power and Saving Merits of the Blood of Christ's Cross for all whom it was shed [His Sheep / Elect]; and has wickedly replaced its Saving Effects to depend on the will of man.

However, the Blood of Christ accomplishes saving / converting Power for all those for whom it was shed:
It purges the conscience from dead works; and causes them to serve the Living God Heb. 9:14 !

Yet others Christ did not die for will surely die in their sins:

Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[DAN P]

2 Tim 3:5

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

The teaching of the false view that Christ died for all individuals without exception, and yet its a given all individuals without exception will be saved, for some will surely die in their sins, yet teaching such, its denying the power of Christs atoning death ! Many do this in the name of godliness, but its only a form thereof. Universal redemption denies the power and efficacy of Christ’s blood. It is a doctrine that teaches that the Lord Jesus did not really accomplish anything by his death on the cross, but only made it possible for sinners to be redeemed, justified, and saved. DF

And it Col 1 :17 is where the so-called UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION use as their PROOF TEXT >

And He is before ALL THINGS , and in Him ALL THINGS , consist .

Does all things in this verve mean , all things ?

The second ALL THINGS does have the Greek ARTICLE ( THE )

The first ALL THINGS then means ALL THINGS / PANTA PERIOD >

The second ALL THINGS IN THE Greek text is TA PANTA , which means THE ALL THINGS .

The first ALL THINGS / PANTA means ALL THINGS in the universe .

I believe that the second TA PANTA /THE ALL THINGS , means SPECIFC THINGS , that concern the BODY of CHRIST .

The Nation of Israel , nor ANGELS are in VIEW here at all .

dan p

dan p

 

[Derf]

2 Tim 3:5

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

The teaching of the false view that Christ died for all individuals without exception, and yet its a given all individuals without exception will be saved, for some will surely die in their sins, yet teaching such, its denying the power of Christs atoning death ! Many do this in the name of godliness, but its only a form thereof. Universal redemption denies the power and efficacy of Christ’s blood. It is a doctrine that teaches that the Lord Jesus did not really accomplish anything by his death on the cross, but only made it possible for sinners to be redeemed, justified, and saved. DF

If the wages of sin is death, how would one know if someone has had their sins paid for? Wouldn’t it be that he was resurrected—saved out of death?
So then, tell me who is NOT going to be resurrected? Please cite verses.

 

[beloved57]

If the wages of sin is death, how would one know if someone has had their sins paid for? Wouldn’t it be that he was resurrected—saved out of death?
So then, tell me who is NOT going to be resurrected? Please cite verses.

You talking about something different. Did you understand the OP ? What am I saying about denying the power thereof ?

 

[Derf]

You talking about something different. Did you understand the OP ? What am I saying about denying the power thereof ?

You’re denying the power of Jesus Christ’s death to raise all people from the dead.

 

[beloved57]

You’re denying the power of Jesus Christ’s death to raise all people from the dead.

Now you bearing false witness against thy neighbor ! Ex 20:16

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

 

[Derf]

Now you bearing false witness against thy neighbor ! Ex 20:16

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Then you agree that it is Jesus’ death that will result in all people arising from the dead?

 

[beloved57]

Then you agree that it is Jesus’ death that will result in all people arising from the dead?

Admit you are bearing false witness !

 

[Derf]

Then you don't agree that it is by the power of Jesus that all are raised from the dead? To whose power do you attribute the resurrection to condemnation?
[Jhn 5:28-29 ESV] 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

 

[beloved57]

Then you don't agree that it is by the power of Jesus that all are raised from the dead? To whose power do you attribute the resurrection to condemnation?
[Jhn 5:28-29 ESV] 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

So you not going to admit you bear false witness. You are dishonest, i dont want anything else to do with you.

 

[Derf]

So you not going to admit you bear false witness. You are dishonest, i dont want anything else to do with you.

Now you're saying that sinners shouldn't bother coming to you for reasons for the hope that is in you.
[1Pe 3:15 ESV] 15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,

Note that Peter is telling us that we should be prepared to make a defense, and that anyone not doing so is not honoring Christ the Lord as holy. I've asked about the hope that is in you, and you haven't given any reasons, just accusations. You're no better than Satan, the accuser of the brethren (Rev 12:10). Is that really how you intend to honor Christ the Lord?

If you want me to admit bearing false witness, please explain to me where I did that.

 

[JudgeRightly]

So you not going to admit you bear false witness. You are dishonest, i dont want anything else to do with you.

You have yet to prove he's bearing false witness.

Where is your evidence that he is? You won't even answer his questions, must less show he's wrong. Just "I'm taking my ball and going home" from you.

 

[marke]

2 Tim 3:5

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

The teaching of the false view that Christ died for all individuals without exception, and yet its a given all individuals without exception will be saved, for some will surely die in their sins, yet teaching such, its denying the power of Christs atoning death ! Many do this in the name of godliness, but its only a form thereof. Universal redemption denies the power and efficacy of Christ’s blood. It is a doctrine that teaches that the Lord Jesus did not really accomplish anything by his death on the cross, but only made it possible for sinners to be redeemed, justified, and saved. DF

Calvinists deny God's power to redeem the world unto Himself by the death of Jesus while retaining the right to save only those who come to Jesus for the forgiveness of sins.

 

[Right Divider]

Calvinists deny God's power to redeem the world unto Himself by the death of Jesus while retaining the right to save only those who come to Jesus for the forgiveness of sins.

They use some falsely redefined terms... like their bogus versions of "sovereignty" and "election".

 

[Gary K]

Now you're saying that sinners shouldn't bother coming to you for reasons for the hope that is in you.
[1Pe 3:15 ESV] 15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,

Note that Peter is telling us that we should be prepared to make a defense, and that anyone not doing so is not honoring Christ the Lord as holy. I've asked about the hope that is in you, and you haven't given any reasons, just accusations. You're no better than Satan, the accuser of the brethren (Rev 12:10). Is that really how you intend to honor Christ the Lord?

If you want me to admit bearing false witness, please explain to me where I did that.

From what I have seen from Calvinists they don't have "the hope within you" they think they have a guarantee. That is not a hope. It makes a mockery of the concept of the word hope. The Greek word translated as hope means an expectation, but expectations are not guarantees.

Paul also uses the word hope with respect to our future resurrection and glorification. He never says these are guarantees. He also said he died daily, and that the dying daily was directly related to salvation. Meaning that if he did not do this his hope for salvation was without foundation. God does not remove our power of choice from us when we choose to follow Him. Sure, no one else can cause us to lose our salvation, but we still have to choose salvation daily.

 

[Right Divider]

From what I have seen from Calvinists they don't have "the hope within you" they think they have a guarantee. That is not a hope. It makes a mockery of the concept the word hope. The Greek word translated as hope means an expectation, but expectations are not guarantees.

Paul also uses the word hope with respect to our future resurrection and glorification. He never says these are guarantees. He also said he died daily, and that the dying daily was directly related to salvation. Meaning that if he did not do this his hope for salvation was without foundation. God does not remove our power of choice from us when we choose to follow Him. Sure, no one else can cause us to lose our salvation, but we still have to choose salvation daily.

Paul does make "full assurance" statements. I believe that your understanding of the "hope" passages leaves out the assurances that we have. The moment that a member of the body of Christ trusts in Christ they have full assurance of their salvation. It has nothing to do with OUR abilities, but Christ's ability to fulfill the result.

Rom 8:31-39 KJV What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? (32) He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? (33) Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. (34) Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. (35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? (36) As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. (37) Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. (38) For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, (39) Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I trust in Christ and not my ability "to choose salvation daily".

 

[Gary K]

Paul does make "full assurance" statements. I believe that your understanding of the "hope" passages leaves out the assurances that we have. The moment that a member of the body of Christ trusts in Christ they have full assurance of their salvation. It has nothing to do with OUR abilities, but Christ's ability to fulfill the result.

I trust in Christ and not my ability "to choose salvation daily".

Without assurance we have no hope. Your point is moot.

It is Christ who gives us the desire to "choose salvation daily". All of our desire for God comes from Him. But, God does not revoke our ability to not choose Him. Adam proved that in the garden of Eden when as a sinless human he chose to not follow God. We still have that same fallen nature that Adam passed on to us and that possibility will not be removed until the second coming of Jesus.

Paul says this clearly.

1Corinthians 15:
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

That is when we are safe and will never afterwards desire to leave God behind. Our corruption will then be taken away. What follows is the Strong's definition of "incorruption".

[*StrongsGreek*]
861 aphthrsia af-thar-see'-ah from 862; incorruptibility; genitive, unending existence; (figuratively) genuineness:--immortality, incorruption, sincerity. see GREEK for 862

WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006) (wn)
incorruptible
adj 1: incapable of being morally corrupted; "incorruptible
judges are the backbone of the society"

 

[Right Divider]

But, God does not revoke our ability to not choose Him.

So you think that you can lose your salvation if you do not "choose salvation daily"?

Adam proved that in the garden of Eden when as a sinless human he chose to not follow God.

Non-sequitur. Was Adam saved by grace through faith?

We still have that same fallen nature that Adam passed on to us and that possibility will not be removed until the second coming of Jesus.

That has nothing to do with being saved or unsaved.

That is when we are safe and will never afterwards desire to leave God behind. Our corruption will then be taken away. What follows is the Strong's definition of "incorruption".

I truly feel sorry for those that are not saved or saved and think that they can lose their salvation.

 

[beloved57]

If Christ’s blood paid the sin-debt of everyone without exception then no one has anything to answer for at the bar of God’s justice, yet that is clearly not so. Many are even now in hell and every day thousands go there. To propose Christ paid for their sin debt yet they end up in hell is blasphemous to the glorious name and finished work of Christ! Its denying the power thereof !