God's Truth
New member
Jesus tells us many times that we have to obey.
WE HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE TO OBEY JESUS.
ECT Definition of "Works Salvation"
- Thread starter Cross Reference
- Start date
Jesus tells us many times that we have to obey.
WE HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE TO OBEY JESUS.
God's Truth
New member
I care very little about your judgment of me.
You are not fit to judge me.
You want to insult me because I prove easily that your tongue speaking is false and entertainment for the devil.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Of course I knew that you would think that the Lord Jesus' words are not worthwhile.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
By the "context" the subject is salvation so the Lord Jesus' words in regard to not being judged is in regard to salvation and not works in service to the Lord.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
If you were saved you would believe the Lord Jesus' words here:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24; NIV).
In this verse the Greek word translated "believes" and the Greek word translated "has" are both in the "present" tense.
In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:
"The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."
Therefore, John 5:24 is saying that those who were believing at the time the Lord Jesus spoke those words had already received eternal life. That is what is meant as something being "viewed as occuring in actual time."
By the time one believed he had already passed from death to life and that life is eternal life. They are also given the Lord Jesus' promise that they will not be judged.
Despite these facts you will reject His words because you put more faith in what some men say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say. And it is also a fact that the Lord Jesus says that His words are Spirit and they are life:
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).
Of course you will not believe what He says there because it contradicts your mistaken ideas.
Cross Reference
New member
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
All the words surrounding the words "will not be judged." The subject found in those words refers to salvation and not service. Crossing over from death unto life is speaking of salvation.
Cross Reference
New member
"And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" 1 Peter 4:18 (KJV)
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Do you think that verse makes what the Lord Jesus said at John 5:24 wrong?
Do you think that verse make the Lord Jesus in error when He said that His words are Spirit and they are life (John 6:63)?
Oh, I forgot. According to you His words are not worthwhile!
God's Truth
New member
I believe all of God's Word.
Of course, we have to believe.
All those scriptures that tell us to believe...to have faith...those scriptures do not nullify the scriptures that say we have to obey.
Do you really think that people being told to believe means believe only?
What is this now? Are you saying they already had eternal life but they just had to believe it?
No one has eternal life until Jesus gives the person the Holy Spirit.
Don't you understand that?
You will not be judged IF YOU OBEY JESUS!
Here is just one scripture to correct you in your confusion:
1 Timothy 3:6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.
You are making false judgments about me.
What else do you have but false judgment, for you do not have the truth.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The primary meaning of the Greek word translated "saved" is "to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).
The danger which the Christian faces is being chastened by the Lord:
" For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (1 Cor.11:30-32).
God's Truth
New member
How do you think you are going to get the Spirit and the life?
You will not get it by believing only.
If that is what you believe, then you have deceived yourself.
James 1:16 Don't be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters.
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men
Cross Reference
New member
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
That is ridiculous. What the Lord Jesus said here is either true or it is false:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24; NIV).
According to you the Lord Jesus is in error because just believing does not result in eternal life.
According to your ideas the Lord Jesus was in error when He said that His words are Spirit and they are life.
God's Truth
New member
You judged yourself right when you falsely judged me.
Quote: "Sorry CR, you conversation in Him is wanting."
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I am going to get life by His word and that is exactly what the Lord Jesus said:
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).
Over and over you refuse to believe the Lord's words and there is no evidence that you will ever believe them. So I am wasting my time on this thread.
Adios!
God's Truth
New member
Cross Reference
New member
Was I lying?
God's Truth
New member
Believe only is not enough. Even the demons believe and do something, they shudder!
You will not be judged IF YOU OBEY JESUS.
You will not be judged if you obey Jesus.
What are you going to do with these scriptures? They do not fit in with your false beliefs.
Matthew 5:13
[ Salt and Light ] “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
Matthew 8:12
But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Luke 13:28
“There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.
Luke 14:35
It is fit neither for the soil nor for the manure pile; it is thrown out. “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”
As James says; "faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead"
Cherry picking one part of what he wrote in chapter 2 only shows you only accept PART of the written word.
That contradicts Heb 9:27 (NIV) GT.
So let me get this straight...you believe one can lose their salvation?