CRTL's Jason Troyer In Studio

[Poly]

For crying out loud: the infant is the greater victim, but to say the mother isn't would be a disservice as well. It's incredible how many of you people need every last frigging nuance spelled out for you.

So a spontaneous abortion...well...just happens, and leaves behind no victim. Correct?

You know, Granite... you're supposedly pro life and at one time I thought (and really hoped) that you really were. But just about any thread having to do with this issue leaves you showing little compassion for those which you are supposed to be "for". In fact, if I was an infant who could choose those who would plead my case so that I wouldn't end up being one of the.... all too many who are just thrown away, I'd probaby say to you....

"Hey, how 'bout not doing us any favors in claiming you're supposedly pro-life. It's obvious by your posts concerning this issue that you come across as pretty much disingenuous in your lack of any sympathy or concern so why don't you keep your comments to yourself 'cause they sure aren't helping us at all.

 

[One Eyed Jack]

For crying out loud: the infant is the greater victim, but to say the mother isn't would be a disservice as well. It's incredible how many of you people need every last frigging nuance spelled out for you.

So a spontaneous abortion...well...just happens, and leaves behind no victim. Correct?

I don't think that's correct. I remember when my Spanish II teacher had a miscarriage back in high school. You couldn't look at the hurt in that woman's eyes and believe there was no victim.

 

[WandererInFog]

But slavery was legal here (it was the norm) and now it is not. Somehow that victory was one. The same can be done with abortion.

The states in which slavery was ended peacefully, it was done in a gradual and incremental manner, in same way that most social issues are slowly advanced. Had the South Dakota law included an exception for Rape and Incest, it would've passed and passed easily.

And let's face it, this law was never going to actually go into effect. The entire purpose of it was bring the issue back before the Supreme Court and see to what extent Roe v. Wade could be eroded or on some outside chance if it could actually be overturned. Now, because the law was drafted in such a narrow manner, it's accomplished nothing but creating the perception of a serious loss for the Pro-Life movement.

At this point in US history there exists insufficient public approval to outlaw all abortions, even in the most conservative states. The moment you add exceptions for the life of the mother as well as rape and incest, public approval goes up over 50% in most (if not close to all) states. Those exceptions represent only 3%-5% of abortions currently being performed in this country. And so to me, given the chances of outlawing 0% or 95%-97%, it would seem to make the most sense to compromise and take the 95%-97%.

 

[Granite]

I don't think that's correct. I remember when my Spanish II teacher had a miscarriage back in high school. You couldn't look at the hurt in that woman's eyes and believe there was no victim.

Actually it was a rhetorical question. A miscarriage (or spontaneous abortion, if you like) victimizes the mother horribly.

 

[Granite]

You know, Granite... you're supposedly pro life and at one time I thought (and really hoped) that you really were. But just about any thread having to do with this issue leaves you showing little compassion for those which you are supposed to be "for". In fact, if I was an infant who could choose those who would plead my case so that I wouldn't end up being one of the.... all too many who are just thrown away, I'd probaby say to you....

"Hey, how 'bout not doing us any favors in claiming you're supposedly pro-life. It's obvious by your posts concerning this issue that you come across as pretty much disingenuous in your lack of any sympathy or concern so why don't you keep your comments to yourself 'cause they sure aren't helping us at all.

You know, Poly, I could care less if you and the rest of the TOL amen corner think I'm pro-life or not. Abortion is murder. It's a savage sign of a civilization degrading and cheapening life. It is a flippant and grotesque way to treat your own species. If I'm not pro-life enough for you people, big frigging deal. No offense but too bad, so sad. I've grown up pro-life, worked the phones, protested clinics, saw the devastation it has wrought. So I really resent and downright detest this kind of pro-life McCarthyism around here when someone doubts me and a conviction I've had my entire life and always will.

I suggested that some women who get abortions are victimized by the process and all kinds of people here freaked out. Well that's not my problem. But it's a very serious problem for the pro-life community and movement as a whole. There's a reason so many clinics offer post-abortion counseling: many of these girls and women are hurting in a very big way and need serious help. If it's a crime to even mention this, excuse me all to hell.

 

[On Fire]

Calm down, man. The only thing you're guilty of is maybe trying to deflect the issue away from murdered babies. Yes, there are other repercussions when a woman has an abortion (that's the nature of sin), however, the #1 issue is murdered babies.

I guess the only thing we really disagree on is the timing. There are boat loads of biological terms for the various stages of development. Most of "us" believe that life starts at conception. You think it starts at personhood or maybe sentience. Can you define personhood?

Bravo to your family for the service they have performed to reduce abortions.

 

[Granite]

Calm down, man. The only thing you're guilty of is maybe trying to deflect the issue away from murdered babies. Yes, there are other repercussions when a woman has an abortion (that's the nature of sin), however, the #1 issue is murdered babies.

I guess the only thing we really disagree on is the timing. There are boat loads of biological terms for the various stages of development. Most of "us" believe that life starts at conception. You think it starts at personhood or maybe sentience. Can you define personhood?

Bravo to your family for the service they have performed to reduce abortions.

I'm not guilty of a damn thing and I absolutely disagree with that kind of patronizing pat on the head. I'm not deflecting anything. I commented that many women who get abortions are victimized: I am not aware that this sentiment is an appalling hideous and unspeakable crime, but it sure has been treated as such lately.

I'm sick to death--literally--of being told I'm not opposed to abortion when I am right down to my marrow.

 

[On Fire]

I'm not guilty of a damn thing and I absolutely disagree with that kind of patronizing pat on the head. I'm not deflecting anything. I commented that many women who get abortions are victimized: I am not aware that this sentiment is an appalling hideous and unspeakable crime, but it sure has been treated as such lately.

I'm sick to death--literally--of being told I'm not opposed to abortion when I am right down to my marrow.

Wow. Try to smooth things out and look where it gets ya.

 

[Granite]

"What do you know."

That was you, not me.

 

[On Fire]

Huh?

 

[Stripe]

I'm sick to death--literally--of being told I'm not opposed to abortion when I am right down to my marrow.

you dont oppose murder if you think the people doing the killing are victims.

 

[Granite]

To deny many women are victimized through abortion out of manipulation or misinformation is ignorant and naive.

 

[Stripe]

To deny many women are victimized through abortion out of manipulation or misinformation is ignorant and naive.

granted that those who profit from the murder are guilty of an unimaginable crime, but those who willingly choose to murder their kids are more culpable than those who provide the service.

 

[Granite]

I would disagree and take each instance on a case by case basis.

 

[Stripe]

I would disagree and take each instance on a case by case basis.

ok .. start with a case where the woman didnt know the baby inside her was going to be murdered when she signed up for an abortion.

 

[Granite]

If you honestly believe many women aren't duped or misled you are truly clueless.

 

[Stripe]

If you honestly believe many women aren't duped or misled you are truly clueless.

what .. do they tell the mother theyre just going to take the baby to disneyland and then send it to live with the clintons?

 

[Granite]

What you don't know is a lot.

 

[Granite]

Huh?

Post 37.

You have anything to contribute to this discussion?

 

[Stripe]

What you don't know is a lot.

i know that mothers who have abortions are murderers and deserve no compassion at all..