Creation vs. Evolution

[MichaelCadry]

It would be confusing if God created humans on the 3rd day and dry land on the 6th day...So, He did it the other way.
Genesis 1
"And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day."

Dear 6days,

On the 3rd day, God made the dry land appear and called it Earth. Right? He created man on the sixth day, right? You are right on target!! 6days, how do I reconcile that there is an Earth billions of years old?? 4.5 billion years, right? Then how did God created the Earth and man within 6 days?? I still believe that God did that.

May God Fill Your Heart With Joy At Jesus' Second Coming,

Michael

atrol:

:angel:

 

[MichaelCadry]

The same one that said these words.

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

everready

Great Job, everready!

Jesus said these words. Those who knew Him wrote these words and they got translated to English. We who believe in Him, know this. We who know Him, believe this. It's that simple.

Many Blessings!

Michael

:up:

:angel:

 

[Jonahdog]

Great Job, everready!

Jesus said these words. Those who knew Him wrote these words and they got translated to English. We who believe in Him, know this. We who know Him, believe this. It's that simple.

Many Blessings!

Michael

:up:

:angel:

Actually I suspect those who knew him did not write them down. I think the generally accepted concept is that those who knew him talked about him and eventually someone further along in time wrote those words. The accuracy of that process is questionable.

 

[6days]

Actually I suspect those who knew him did not write them down. I think the generally accepted concept is that those who knew him talked about him and eventually someone further along in time wrote those words. The accuracy of that process is questionable.

What other response could an atheist have? That the Gospel is true and accurate?

 

[Hedshaker]

You just wish Jesus never existed. Yes, if the person is from long ago, her/his existence is in question. But we still can believe in Vincent van Gogh, or Michelangelo.

The difference is we have multiple sources that determine the existence of both those people conclusively, including their contemporaries, plus we have their work and material that chronicles their work along with what they wrote..... in other words, powerful evidence, none of which requires belief in the supernatural.

What evidence do we have that Jesus was a real person? One book penned by anonymous authors. No contemporary evidence. You would think, if someone was going around doing all these miracles and what-not, that someone at the time would have noticed? But no, everything was cobbled together much latter from decades earlier passed down by aural tradition.... ever heard of Chinese whispers?

That's not to say the character wasn't based on a real historical figure. Might have been. But that isn't evidence for what he is claimed to have said and certainly not evidence for the extraordinary stuff. Claims like miracle are much better explained as embellishments to the stories that were passed down through the decades. We know people exaggerate, especially when they have an agenda to promote.

However, people can believe what they want.

 

[noguru]

Dear noguru,

If you mean 'me,' I'll have you know that I learn on my own most things that I believe in. I have only needed help with how to make quote boxes from Alwight. I figured out how to do all of the rest myself, except blogs. I have learned how to fish, for I am a fisher of men, just as Jesus taught us. I am doing just fine, thanks!!

Selah!

Michael

Michael. how do you make a delusional person aware that they are in fact delusional?

 

[everready]

Well, who was that? who put pen to paper, or papyrus, or a scroll and wrote those words? And I dont think that Jesus actually spoke in King James English did he?

Jesus created our languages at Babel

Genesis 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

everready

 

[Jonahdog]

What other response could an atheist have? That the Gospel is true and accurate?

Am I wrong in that the general consensus of theologians is that the writers of the gospels were not the people who heard Jesus speak those words?

 

[Dennyg1]

Jesus created our languages at Babel

Genesis 11:6
9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

everready

So according to the Bible, the language of English was created at Babel?

 

[nodelink]

Am I wrong in that the general consensus of theologians is that the writers of the gospels were not the people who heard Jesus speak those words?

Matthew and John were among the twelve apostles and direct eyewitnesses to many of the events.

Mark was probably the certain young man in the story of Mark 14:51 and directly received much additional information from the Apostle Peter.

Luke was a Greek, non-Jew and companion of the Apostle Paul. Luke was aware of many eyewitnesses and had a great understanding. See Luke 1:1-3.

Are you hoping to find errors?

Are you hoping that the Bible is true?

 

[Jonahdog]

Matthew and John were among the twelve apostles and direct eyewitnesses to many of the events.

Mark was probably the certain young man in the story of Mark 14:51 and directly received much additional information from the Apostle Peter.

Luke was a Greek, non-Jew and companion of the Apostle Paul. Luke was aware of many eyewitnesses and had a great understanding. See Luke 1:1-3.

Are you hoping to find errors?

Are you hoping that the Bible is true?

I already know it is not true

 

[Hedshaker]

Matthew and John were among the twelve apostles and direct eyewitnesses to many of the events.

Mark was probably the certain young man in the story of Mark 14:51 and directly received much additional information from the Apostle Peter.

Luke was a Greek, non-Jew and companion of the Apostle Paul. Luke was aware of many eyewitnesses and had a great understanding. See Luke 1:1-3.

Were you there at the launch event? Did you take photographs?

Don't worry, we know you wasn't there, but since you are so sure you must have good, falsifiable evidence. Might we see it?

 

[6days]

Dear 6days,

On the 3rd day, God made the dry land appear and called it Earth. Right? He created man on the sixth day, right? You are right on target!! 6days, how do I reconcile that there is an Earth billions of years old??

Yes...its difficult to reconcile evolutionary beliefs with God's Word...It leads to compromise.

Just believe what God's Word plainly says and you will be ok. On the 3rd day God called the dry land earth. I don't understand the difficulty? Are you thinking that the word earth means planet earth? ... That isn't what it says.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Actually I suspect those who knew him did not write them down. I think the generally accepted concept is that those who knew him talked about him and eventually someone further along in time wrote those words. The accuracy of that process is questionable.

Dear Jonahdog,

As the Bible says, Matthew wrote the Gospel of Matthew. He was one of the spectators and confidant's of Jesus and His miracles, and life. Mark also wrote his Gospel of Mark, and so on. Just because it was a while ago does not mean we should consider the books to be fake. I'm sure there are other books that old and true. Matthew knew Him, as did Mark, Luke and John. They wrote about Him and what He said and did.

Michael

:bang:

:angel:

 

[alwight]

Dear Jonahdog,

As the Bible says, Matthew wrote the Gospel of Matthew. He was one of the spectators and confidant's of Jesus and His miracles, and life. Mark also wrote his Gospel of Mark, and so on. Just because it was a while ago does not mean we should consider the books to be fake. I'm sure there are other books that old and true. Matthew knew Him, as did Mark, Luke and John. They wrote about Him and what He said and did.

Michael

:bang:

:angel:

The four gospels are thought to be more like dramatic reconstructions of an earlier story, and written in Greek by later anonymous evangelists probably using the names of apostles simply as a convenience.
I realise that you may want to think that they all come from the apostles themselves but that just isn't what theologians and historians believe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_source

There really is no way of knowing what was factually true or from perhaps later embellishment or exaggeration, added to pull in the punters, so to speak.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Actually I suspect those who knew him did not write them down. I think the generally accepted concept is that those who knew him talked about him and eventually someone further along in time wrote those words. The accuracy of that process is questionable.

Dear Jonahdog,

To be honest, I know that John, one of Jesus' disciples, wrote those words about what Jesus said. So now you know. The whole Gospel of John was written by John. John wrote Revelation also, for the Lord Jesus dictated to John what he should write down. When God or an angel tells you something, you never forget. It's etched in your memory. So you write it down for others to read so they will know what will happen.

In Christ's Love,

Michael

:cheers:

:angel:

 

[MichaelCadry]

The difference is we have multiple sources that determine the existence of both those people conclusively, including their contemporaries, plus we have their work and material that chronicles their work along with what they wrote..... in other words, powerful evidence, none of which requires belief in the supernatural.

The fact is, we have multiple persons, who saw and knew the man Jesus, and they also bore witness of the 'miracles' Jesus performed. It's not fair to say that they had contemporaries, but ignoring the fact that so did Jesus.

What evidence do we have that Jesus was a real person? One book penned by anonymous authors. No contemporary evidence. You would think, if someone was going around doing all these miracles and what-not, that someone at the time would have noticed? But no, everything was cobbled together much latter from decades earlier passed down by aural tradition.... ever heard of Chinese whispers?

We have evidence that Jesus was a real person because He was seen and known by others, just like your contemporaries. No difference. His miracles are food for the believers, for they believe. Blessed are those who believe without seeing. So it was passed down by oral means. That how a lot of stories are passed down.

That's not to say the character wasn't based on a real historical figure. Might have been. But that isn't evidence for what he is claimed to have said and certainly not evidence for the extraordinary stuff. Claims like miracle are much better explained as embellishments to the stories that were passed down through the decades. We know people exaggerate, especially when they have an agenda to promote.

However, people can believe what they want.

There are those of us who believe in this man because His Life is recorded in a book that has sold more copies than any other book in history, named the "Bible." The Bible shows us how to live, and shows what has happened in the past and what will come in our future besides all of that. The Bible is a miracle in itself. It is a present-day miracles that we can see and read. We have no reason to disbelieve what is written inside of it, because so much of it has come to pass. And it doesn't take much time to Prove. Less than a year and you will know either way, if it's fake or fact. I figure, how can you lose passing up an offer like that?

Much Love,

Michael

:bang:

:angel:

 

[MichaelCadry]

The four gospels are thought to be more like dramatic reconstructions of an earlier story, and written in Greek by later anonymous evangelists probably using the names of apostles simply as a convenience.
I realise that you may want to think that they all come from the apostles themselves but that just isn't what theologians and historians believe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_source

There really is no way of knowing what was factually true or from perhaps later embellishment or exaggeration, added to pull in the punters, so to speak.

Dear Alwight,

Yes, I guess they were thought to be, but no, they were to be written by His disciples. That is only a "hypothetical" accusation. Firsthand accounts of a man who said He would come again in the latter years and latter days, and He shall toss out the chaff and take, and keep, the good wheat. How do you think people made up this stuff?? Do you think such an unusual man would not be written about considering the things He said actually came to pass (happened). The Bible itself tells who wrote each book before the different books are recorded. The book is Holy. It does not lie. It does not have mistakes in it, especially all the mistakes you all say it holds.

Tons of Blessings,

Michael

:cheers:

:angel:

 

[nodelink]

Don't worry, we know you wasn't there, but since you are so sure you must have good, falsifiable evidence. Might we see it?

Hedshaker, thank you for your invitation such as I understood it to be. I thought about a response overnight. You may have been thinking about evidence for a YEC position and I have been inclined toward such a position but have been open to other POV's that can be reconciled with Genesis 1 and the overall Bible. Shown below is a partial summary combining notes that I wrote a few years back and new content added today to justify belief in the existence of God.

Why I Align My Life With Belief In The Existence of God

Matter and Energy Exist; Life Exists - There are only two ways this could have happened. 1) Matter has always existed; 2) God brought matter into being.

Nature and the universe have order. Gravity is predictable. Atoms, ions and electricity behave in predictable ways. Tides and eclipses can be predicted years in advance. The earth's axis tilt, rotational speed, orbital speed, distance from the sun and moon are all balanced with exquisite precision; the human body has amazing properties and order. Without all of this, life as we know it could not exist. Your weight on Jupiter would be two and one half times what it is on earth because of the immense size of Jupiter. God is the author of order and balance.

Uniqueness of the Bible and Jesus Christ - 40 Authors over 1500 years wrote the Bible with remarkable beauty, accuracy, and harmony. Jesus Christ spoke words and performed works like no other. Jesus is unique in human history. Many aspects of the life of Jesus Christ were prophesied hundreds of years earlier. Other aspects of Bible prophecy remain to be fulfilled in the future. There is a beauty and excellence and influence that emanated from the life of Jesus Christ like that of no other.

Human beings have an understanding that horses, lizards, birds, and fish do not have. Although it is often suppressed, human beings have a conscience. By conscience, human beings know something about right and wrong and sense that they may eventually be held accountable. Christian catechisms maintain that human persons possess souls that will never die.

Eternity in heaven or hell are vast concepts and too important for anyone to gamble on the outcome. Since there is evidence of intentional Creation; human beings have an obligation to thankfulness and to seek out their Creator. The Creator has no obligation to reveal himself to our senses of sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch. Evidence has helped detectives to resolve investigations but God is powerful enough to create without leaving behind a trail of evidence (Hebrews 11:3). God does call us to repentance, faith, hope, and love.

Without a final Judgement, many injustices done in the world will never be corrected. Only through what the one Redeemer, Jesus Christ, has accomplished can God righteously demonstrate both full, severe justice upon some and everlasting mercy upon others. Note: The Bible does teach degrees of punishment in the place of darkness and degrees of reward in the place of light.

Other Arguments

Beyond the Five Senses - Naturalists believe that everything that can be known begins with observation by the five senses of sight, hearing, taste, smell and touch. Already, there are electromagnetic realities that we can observe only with instruments such as invisible light, cosmic background radiation, neutrinos, sub-atomic particles, etc. Mankind has no good way to know what we may be missing and have not yet observed. The Creator can warp space and time.

Justice - Rewards and Punishment - If there is no God, no Judgment, no Redemption, then there will be no correction of injustices done against and by those who have passed on and are no longer alive. If no after life and accountability, then there will be no punishment for wicked deeds done and no rewards for righteous deeds.

Symphony analogy - Symphonies have composers and conductors who bring about purpose and order. Likewise, the universe has a composer (Creator) and conductor (Sustainer) who manages purpose and order, beginning and ending.

Changed lives - Christian martyrs from Steven (Acts 6-7) to the early century martyrs of the Roman Colosseum and catacombs to the many Christian martyrs since then have shown love for Christ and faithfulness unto death.

Changed lives - Drug addicts - In our generation, there are cases where Christian ministries have enjoyed remarkable successes in bringing people through deep drug addictions into productive, Christian lives without drugs. I know someone from that background with that type of story.

Changed lives - The lives of William Wilberforce (1759-1833) and John Newton (1725-1807) are remarkable stories. I recommend biographies of either. The genre of Christian biography has many excellent stories to tell.

Changed lives - Amy Carmichael (1867-1951) was a Protestant Christian missionary in India, who opened an orphanage and founded a mission in Dohnavur India. She served 55 years in India and never married and never returned to Ireland. The legacy and impact of her work continues to the present time.

Changed lives - Christianity has produced wonderful examples of changed lives and lives of extraordinary dedication. Love is a wonderful thing. Christianity has produced wonderful examples of love, patience and kindness among people in both prominent and humber circumstances throughout its existence. Hospitality, healthcare, education, poverty outreach and social justice causes like the anti-slavery movement are just some of the places where Christians have served. Not all professing Christians have been loving and some professing Christians have surely hypocrites but many have been genuine and sincere.

Jesus Himself - Jesus lived in humility and poverty when He came the first time. Jesus has influenced history and lives for the good like no one else. At his first coming, Jesus did not command wealth and armies and did not acquire glories and honors. Jesus accomplished redemption of guilty sinners by living a sinless live and suffering as an innocent man on behalf of others. Jesus rose from the dead and will come again in a display of great glory and might. The miraculous works of Jesus Christ in healing, turning water in wine, walking on the water, feeding the multitudes, raising the dead and incomparable and exceed those of anyone else. The words of Jesus such as the Sermon on the Mount and parables and more were pure words unlike words spoken by anyone else.

 

[Hedshaker]

The fact is, we have multiple persons, who saw and knew the man Jesus, and they also bore witness of the 'miracles' Jesus performed. It's not fair to say that they had contemporaries, but ignoring the fact that so did Jesus.

Just saying it doesn't make it so Michael.

We have evidence that Jesus was a real person because He was seen and known by others, just like your contemporaries. No difference. His miracles are food for the believers, for they believe. Blessed are those who believe without seeing. So it was passed down by oral means. That how a lot of stories are passed down.

There is no contemporary evidence for a historical Jesus outside of the Bible. Even self respecting theologians accept that fact. You have to take it on faith.

There are those of us who believe in this man because His Life is recorded in a book that has sold more copies than any other book in history, named the "Bible." The Bible shows us how to live, and shows what has happened in the past and what will come in our future besides all of that. The Bible is a miracle in itself. It is a present-day miracles that we can see and read. We have no reason to disbelieve what is written inside of it, because so much of it has come to pass. And it doesn't take much time to Prove. Less than a year and you will know either way, if it's fake or fact. I figure, how can you lose passing up an offer like that?

The amount of books sold says nothing of its truth value. And no, the Bible does not show me how to live and I'm satisfied I have moral values as good, or better, than most Christians. In fact, the last place I would look for moral values is the Bible.

If Jesus comes through the clouds by November I'll not only admit you were right but I'll also eat my hat, and I have several hats so you can choose which one. If, however, the event doesn't occur by November 2015 will you then drop this nonsense once and for all? Or will you alter the time line? Time will tell.

Cheers