Creation vs. Evolution

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6days

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caino said:
God created evolution
Your god is a cruel god... 'creating' through a process of death, pain,suffering and extinctions.*

The God of the Bible, my God, created the various kinds perfectly. He created man from the dust. He created woman from mans side. Death, pain and suffering entered our world as a result os our sin.*
 

Yorzhik

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Clearly you have no respect for a scientific consensus if it doesn't tally with yours.
You keep saying foolish things like this and still have respect for yourself. Shame on you. Obviously, if I don't agree with consensus, then I don't have consensus with what I propose. It's the kind of illogic that you fall into when you force yourself to disagree with reality.

Seems to me Yorzhik that you are the one with all the religion.
You are the one following consensus dogmatically in spite of the evidence. That's pure religion for you.

Well then it must surely be time provide your naturalistic answer by now?
I already did. You missed it. Repeatedly.
 

Yorzhik

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Cool, then be so kind and give me a list of these soundbites and I promise I'll avoid using them :)
Exhibit A.

How does your changing the subject help me on my quest for your evidence, eh?
Nice soundbite. But as you admit, I was on topic.

Anyway it seems there's a history that others are aware of, and I personally don't want to get involved. As long as you don't show me anything, I'll just assume you have nothing to show.
Oh, but as you are about to admit, I did show you.

Now for the sport, here are the answers:
1) good points by YEC - 0 so far, but I'm certainly not familiar with everything creationists have come up with, so - surprise me!
2) the "number of mutations for a feature" is poorly defined, but it seems you have already answered your own question.
First, thanks for the straightforward answers. It's a rare thing for your side. You disqualify yourself from talking about the subject, but at least you were straightforward about it.

As #1 indicates, you don't pay attention to the other side at all. That's why you talk in soundbites. There happen to be a number of smart people on my side. They sometimes make a good point. If you had any interest in common descent being correct, you'd track down those good points and focus on them

#2 indicates you don't read well enough to engage in a conversation on the topic. It was a clear question with a simple answer that you... couldn't.
 

6days

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TheDuke said:
2) the "number of mutations for a feature" is poorly defined, but it seems you have already answered your own question.
The correct answer to Yorziks question .... and you sort of said this...
You don't know the answer but believe inspite of evidence showing mutations destroy. Its a belief system that requires millions of mutations (billions? Trillions?) that would be conserved to create a feature like echolocation. And since a couple dozen various creatures have a system like that, evolutionists believe that same sequence of millions of mutations happened multiple times. Evolutionism is religous psuedoscience.
 

Jose Fly

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I'm still waiting to see a Yorzhik post that has actual evidence. He seems to like to use the word "evidence" a lot, but not be interested in actually posting any.
 

alwight

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You keep saying foolish things like this and still have respect for yourself. Shame on you. Obviously, if I don't agree with consensus, then I don't have consensus with what I propose. It's the kind of illogic that you fall into when you force yourself to disagree with reality.


You are the one following consensus dogmatically in spite of the evidence. That's pure religion for you.


I already did. You missed it. Repeatedly.
:rolleyes:
 

DavisBJ

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You never, nor has anyone else, rebutted any evidence I brought against mutation + NS. Or concerning Shannon information. ...
This is a problem often seen in these exchanges. Often when you go to a debate, afterwards you can stand by the door and listen to the comments of the audience as they file out. Audience members from both sides will commonly be heard proudly claiming it was their side that was decisively victorious.
 

Caino

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Your god is a cruel god... 'creating' through a process of death, pain,suffering and extinctions.*

The God of the Bible, my God, created the various kinds perfectly. He created man from the dust. He created woman from mans side. Death, pain and suffering entered our world as a result os our sin.*

It's the same God who allowed Lucifer to fool the whole world.
 

TheDuke

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Your god is a cruel god... 'creating' through a process of death, pain,suffering and extinctions.*

The God of the Bible, my God, created the various kinds perfectly. He created man from the dust. He created woman from mans side. Death, pain and suffering entered our world as a result os our sin.*

What are you on about?
Your god is supposed to be omniscient, don't tell me he's somehow not responsible for our fate.

Given all the cruelty and suffering in nature, that's still better than your afterlife options.
 

DavisBJ

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Michael, several posters have advised against posting laundry lists of arguments like the one you just did. The depth of your understanding it takes to post such a list is no more than seeing something about God or the Bible and science, and then mindlessly cutting and pasting. That is particularly the case in this list you posted, since I suspect you didn’t understand it enough to realize it’s arguments are largely against your young-earth position. Look at this:
… although the Bible is not a science textbook, it is accurate when it mentions matters of science.

The universe had a beginning. (Genesis 1:1)
Mike, go to almost any major college in the world and ask the physics department if the universe had a beginning (your own local Arizona State University in Tempe would be a good one). The answer from almost every one will be yes, when the big bang happened some 13.5 billion years ago. But you are a YEC, and you can’t tolerate billions of years since the universe came into existence. OOPS.
The universe is governed day-to-day by rational natural laws, not by the whims of deities. (Job 38:33; Jeremiah 33:25)
Yup, sometimes disasters happen (2011 Japanese earthquake and tsunami, or volcanoes, or Hurricane Katrina, etc.), all the results of natural forces. Not things like giganticus floods because a God is ticked off at everyone but some guy named Noah, or fire raining down from heaven just on some insolent priests, or dead smelly human bodies coming back to life, or ladies turning to salt cause they glance over their shoulder.
Rivers and springs are fed by water that has evaporated from the oceans and other sources and then has fallen back to earth as rain, snow, or hail. (Job 36:27, 28; Ecclesiastes 1:7; Isaiah 55:10; Amos 9:6)
Yup, and science even has the exact equations that explain why rainbows can be seen in the rain. No magical restriction on rainbows prior to a few thousand years ago. OOPS.
The mountains rise and fall, and today’s mountains were once under the ocean. (Psalm 104:6, 8)
Yup, Alfred Wegener was a pretty smart guy. Since today’s mountains, like Mount Everest, have been under water for millions of years they would be expected to have thick layers of old marine fossils. OOPS.
Myth: The Bible says that the universe was created in six 24-hour days.

Fact: According to the Bible, God created the universe in the indefinite past. (Genesis 1:1) Also, the days of creation described in chapter 1 of Genesis were epochs whose length is not specified. In fact, the entire period during which earth and heaven were made is also called a “day.”—Genesis 2:4.
Wow, this last one is pure unadulterated old-earth doctrine. Glad to see you have again switched sides, Michael. OOPS.

Got any more lists like this that support evolutionary ideas, Mike?
 

TheDuke

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First, thanks for the straightforward answers. It's a rare thing for your side. You disqualify yourself from talking about the subject, but at least you were straightforward about it.
Excuse me, what subject are we actually talking about here, you still owe me the evidence!
Why can't you provide a straightforward answer?

As #1 indicates, you don't pay attention to the other side at all. That's why you talk in soundbites. There happen to be a number of smart people on my side. They sometimes make a good point. If you had any interest in common descent being correct, you'd track down those good points and focus on them
No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do listen and unfortunately for your "side", so far nothing worthwhile. You have now the opportunity to change that. Use it.
If you have any interest in this topic, then you must be aware of your outsider position, so it's up to you to start giving serious evidence or to just shut up!


#2 indicates you don't read well enough to engage in a conversation on the topic. It was a clear question with a simple answer that you... couldn't.
I told you that your question was ill posed, because you'll just go goal-post shifting the definition of "feature" like all YECs always do.
You hastily provided the number '7' (if I recall) in your own post less than 24h ago.


The correct answer to Yorziks question .... and you sort of said this...
You don't know the answer but believe inspite of evidence showing mutations destroy. Its a belief system that requires millions of mutations (billions? Trillions?) that would be conserved to create a feature like echolocation. And since a couple dozen various creatures have a system like that, evolutionists believe that same sequence of millions of mutations happened multiple times. Evolutionism is religous psuedoscience.
No, your understanding of science is limited to the info you get on creationist webshites.

The simple truth, that being corrected over, and over again, you still pedal the same old deliberate wishful thinking, so far removed from reality that it pains me to even imagine what you must endure every time you hear a fact, indicates just how wrong your position is.
 

MichaelCadry

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God created evolution!

TRUMPGIF1.gif



Dear Caino,

NO, God did NOT create evolution! Man's mind led by Satan's efforts caused evolution. Darwin saw similarities in apes and man, so he deduced what he thought MIGHT be true. It was only an IDEA of Darwin's, put there by the devil. Same with your Urantia Book. It is all a result of Satan. Ask Jesus whether or not your beliefs are correct and see if you get a response or not. God created an ape and chimp as a separate animal and man is not an animal, and man was created separately by God AFTER He created apes and chimps. Do you finally get it now??

Much Love, In Christ!!

Michael

:angel: :cloud9: :cloud9: :angel:
 

DavisBJ

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Your god is a cruel god...
Is that similar to a God who commits genocide, and who order infants to be slaughtered simply because of who their parents are, and who passes out virgins like bounties of war to priests and to the soldiers who had just massacred the families of the virgins?
... 'creating' through a process of death, pain, suffering and extinctions.
I see you judge not by what is, but by what seems offensive to you. At least you make no pretense of being scientifically objective.
 

Caino

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Dear Caino,

NO, God did NOT create evolution! Man's mind led by Satan's efforts caused evolution. Darwin saw similarities in apes and man, so he deduced what he thought MIGHT be true. It was only an IDEA of Darwin's, put there by the devil. Same with your Urantia Book. It is all a result of Satan. Ask Jesus whether or not your beliefs are correct and see if you get a response or not. God created an ape and chimp as a separate animal and man is not an animal, and man was created separately by God AFTER He created apes and chimps. Do you finally get it now??

Much Love, In Christ!!

Michael

:angel: :cloud9: :cloud9: :angel:

The naive right wingers of Jesus' day said all the same childish things about him.
 

6days

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Caino said:
6days said:
Your god is a cruel god... 'creating' through a process of death, pain,suffering and extinctions.

The God of the Bible, my God, created the various kinds perfectly. He created man from the dust. He created woman from mans side. Death, pain and suffering entered our world as a result os our sin.

It's the same God who allowed Lucifer to fool the whole world.

That is my God... the God of the Bible who allow us to choose... allowed us to love.

Your god is a cruel god... 'creating' through a process of death, pain,suffering and extinctions.
:)
 

6days

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To all who actually care:

Here's something I just picked up, haven't even had the time to read it myself yet.....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/01/11/startling-new-discovery-600-million-years-ago-a-single-biological-mistake-changed-everything/

Hee hee
From the article... "If life is effectively an endless series of photocopies, as DNA is transcribed and passed on from one being to the next, then evolution is the high-stakes game of waiting for the copier to get it wrong.

Too wrong, and you’ll live burdened by a maladaptive mutation or genetic disorder. Worse, you might never live at all.

But if the flaw is wrong in exactly the right way, the incredible can happen: disease resistance, sharper eyesight, swifter feet, big brains, better beaks for Darwin’s finches."

Funny / sad / strange that evolutionists believe so much that is contrary to the evidence. Mutations do not create. Mutations destroy. For ex......A mutation might give you a bigger brain... http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hydrocephalic
 
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