Daniel Petting the Kittens in the Den
Daniel Petting the Kittens in the Den
Your arguments against a spherical earth fall into a couple of categories. 1 – What should (and should not be) seen from various points on the earth, 2 - Reliability of our senses when they do not seem to say we are on a spinning ball, 3 – Whether we can trust the high echelons of the government (NASA) to be truthful.
The first category – whether what we actually see shows a flat or spherical earth is the most cut and dried, so I would like to start there. I presume the arguments along that line that you have already presented are ones you feel worth looking at.
The first argument that you presented that I claim is wrong was this:
Wanting to know why you can look at a city skyline tens of miles away and still see it. Wanting to know why NYC and Phillly skylines are over 100 miles apart and both perfectly visible in opposite directions at the same time. This shouldn't be possible earth is a globe.
Jonahdog asked for more specifics:
Exactly where, from 60 miles away can you see the NYC skyline and how much do you see?
At about the same time, Jose Fly challenged:
Your response to Jose Fly included:
… give me some proof that it's a globe but I can see a flat city skyline 60 miles away. Not just the tops of buildings. The entire skyline. With flat horizon in the background.
Then you provided this as additional information for Jonahdog:
NYC skyline from Bear Mountain.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Location...untain_State_Park-Bear_Mountain_New_York.html
Philly skyline from Apple Pie Hill in New Jersey.
http://www.wunderground.com/wximage/samwise70/6
My phone wouldn't copy the photos so I had to find a link. Click then and see the photos. The NYC is from 60 miles away. The philly one is actually only 40 miles away. My mistake. But my point stands. This should not be possible on a globe.
I responded to part of the “shouldn’t be able to see the NYC skyline” claim:
Google maps (and wikipedia) shows Bear Mountain at 41.313N 74.006W, with an elevation of 1300 feet. Using the distance tool in google earth shows the distance from the peak of Bear Mountain to the Center of Manhattan is 42 miles. High school trigonometry says that from an altitude of 1300 feet the horizon will be 44.7 miles away (NYC skyline stands far above the horizon). Spherical earth math says no problem seeing NYC from the peak of Bear Mountain.
Did you actually do the math and measure the distances?
Clearly I disagree with your distance from Bear Mountain to New York City, since you said it was 60 miles, and Google Earth showed the distance to be 42 miles. That 18 mile difference is crucial when speaking of how far away the horizon is. Where did you come up with the 60 mile figure?
Do you agree that the horizon (with no skyline in the way) would be about 45 miles from the top of Bear Mountain?
If you are uncertain about the necessary math, I would be glad to provide it. As I alluded to in my response I quote above, the necessary math is very rudimentary.
Also, in response to your answer to Jose Fly you said “Not just the tops of buildings. The entire skyline. With flat horizon in the background.” If the spherical horizon is 45 miles away, as I claim, then I agree that “not just the tops of buildings” should be visible (unless occluded by other buildings or intervening ridges). But looking at the picture of the skyline from the TripAdvisor website, I see no “flat horizon in the background.” Can you show us where that is in the picture?
In conclusion, are you willing to drop the claim that visibility of NYC from Bear Mountain is impossible with a spherical earth?