Creation vs. Evolution

[Kdall]

All because you say so, right?

If you haven't heard the whole "eretz" thing before, then you've got your head in sand extra deep.

Physics. If you cover one mountain with water, you need to cover pretty much all of them.

You've got to be freaking kidding me

 

[Stripe]

If you haven't heard the whole "eretz" thing before, then you've got your head in sand extra deep.

Moving the goalposts is a favorite tactic of the evolutionist.

Your assertion that eretz must mean "region" is another one of your unsubstantiated assertions.

You've got to be freaking kidding me

Nope. Physics. Water seeks a level. To the extent that it is raised on one part of the Earth, it must be raised the same amount on all parts of the Earth.

 

[Kdall]

Moving the goalposts is a favorite tactic of the evolutionist.

Your assertion that eretz must mean "region" is another one of your unsubstantiated assertions.

Not my assertions, but those of people who study Hebrew language and culture. But you know better than they, right?

Another "moving the goalposts"! Give me a "strawman" and I win YEC bingo.

Buckle up, Stipe, because your next assertion has completely destroyed any credibility you may have had remaining.

Nope. Physics. Water seeks a level. To the extent that it is raised on one part of the Earth, it must be raised the same amount on all parts of the Earth.

Has anyone ever explained tides to you? The tide in Digby Bay, Nova Scotia rises up to 60 feet in a day. I guess you think that God poured 60 more feet of water into all of the oceans for that to happen? Wow

YECs have no understanding of science, as evidenced here by Stipe

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Kdall,

You're a Christian who believes deeply in evolution, right? When or if you meet God in Heaven, are you going to tell Him He did not create the Earth in the same 6 days that He created Heaven, and the host of Heaven (the stars and galaxies, etc.) and man, and animals, and plants, all in the same week? The tide in Digby Bay; the tides are affected by the moon, and you know it. If the tide is shoving water into a smaller area, like a bay, of course it will be a higher level. It has nothing to do with what Stripe said about an even amount of water covering an entire sphere. Water evens itself out. If there is a huge tide, it is from the moon's gravitational pull on the Earth as it circles the Earth. It is a temporary rise in the water. Now, if I am wrong, then fine. It's the way I see it.

Michael

 

[Kdall]

Dear Kdall,

You're a Christian who believes deeply in evolution, right? When or if you meet God in Heaven, are you going to tell Him He did not create the Earth in the same 6 days that He created Heaven, and the host of Heaven (the stars and galaxies, etc.) and man, and animals, and plants, all in the same week? The tide in Digby Bay; the tides are affected by the moon, and you know it. If the tide is shoving water into a smaller area, like a bay, of course it will be a higher level. It has nothing to do with what Stripe said about an even amount of water covering an entire sphere. Water evens itself out. If there is a huge tide, it is from the moon's gravitational pull on the Earth as it circles the Earth. It is a temporary rise in the water. Now, if I am wrong, then fine. It's the way I see it.

Michael

Michael, Stripe stated that if water is a certain height in one place then it will be uniform throughout the world. He did this very adamantly. I used tides as an example to show how this is an absurd claim, as tides due to the moon's gravity, as you mentioned, occur all over the world and distort the water level in each area differently. And not just in oceans, but rivers and large freshwater bodies also. There is no uniformity in ocean levels for this reason, and Stripe is wholly wrong.

If and when I meet God, I won't feel the need to ask Him those questions because I don't think he's a trickster god. And the only reason that He would place mountains of evidence on Earth suggesting things that were untrue would be to trick people. Now, if He told me that He'd deliberately warped the natural order repeatedly in a way that makes Genesis and other books literally true, then I'd just have to accept that. But short of God placing purposefully misleading evidence all over, then it is not literal, but still can be true in an allegorical sense. You're well aware that Jesus taught in parables. Think of Genesis as the parables preached by God himself. In both cases, the stories told are not real, but metaphors underlining a greater truth and overall message

 

[TracerBullet]

Well..... in defence of Stripe, he is often replying to those who are unwilling to honestly engage.*

For example .... there are some here in TOL who refuse to acknowledge he (or creationists in general) have any legitimate arguments.

A legitimate argument is one that can withstand examination and those willing to honestly engage don't reject those examinations out of hand.

 

[TracerBullet]

Who's to say that the actual age of the Earth is correctly dated? Are the methods the same as Carbon-14 dating techniques, or uranium, etc.? I really don't care about the dating methods used to date the age of things might be correct either. I don't believe the ages of faraway galaxies are more than 7,000 some years old either. It is all a mystery that God will reveal very soon. I remember that Carbon-14 dating and Piltdown man dating, etc. is all a bunch of junk. I don't trust science as far as I can throw it. My God tells me that the Universe is as old as the Earth, being created in the same week. Same with these 'distant' galaxies. They were created in the same week also. God will lift the 'veil' when He is ready. And when the seventh angel sounded, "the mystery of God should be finished, as He has declared to His servants, the prophets." {Rev. 10:7KJV}. I also do not trust the dating they did on the Shroud of Turin. Man is so fallible, it makes me shudder. Maybe that distant galaxy is 7,000 some years old. Now that I could believe. God determines what man sees through a telescope. And man's wrong ideas. "But the people who DO know their God, shall be strong, and do exploits." {Dan. 11:32KJV}.

Michael

and what did science do when it was discovered that Piltdown man was not a real find?

I'll give you a hint - Piltdown man was removed from any display, investigations into just how the fraud was perpetrated were carried out and science has never denied that it got duped rather wanting to learn how not to get fooled again.

No contrast that response with your own out of hand rejection of anything and everything that you don't happen to like.

 

[Stripe]

Not my assertions.

Actually, yes. Yours. Without source or reference, what you say is what you say.

And regardless, the identity of source is irrelevant.

Evolutionists love the appeal to authority.

Has anyone ever explained tides to you? The tide in Digby Bay, Nova Scotia rises up to 60 feet in a day. I guess you think that God poured 60 more feet of water into all of the oceans for that to happen? Wow

:yawn:

If a flood was to cover one mountain, it would have needed to cover them all.

Michael, Stripe.

:chuckle:

 

[TracerBullet]

Evolutionists love the appeal to authority.

:dunce:

If a flood was to cover one mountain, it would have needed to cover them all.

Well this is the mid Atlantic ridge.

An entire mountain chain covered in water.



this is Pikes Peak

a mountain not covered in water. According to you Pikes Peak can't be anything but underwater. So explain why it's not.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Michael, Stripe stated that if water is a certain height in one place then it will be uniform throughout the world. He did this very adamantly. I used tides as an example to show how this is an absurd claim, as tides due to the moon's gravity, as you mentioned, occur all over the world and distort the water level in each area differently. And not just in oceans, but rivers and large freshwater bodies also. There is no uniformity in ocean levels for this reason, and Stripe is wholly wrong.

If and when I meet God, I won't feel the need to ask Him those questions because I don't think he's a trickster god. And the only reason that He would place mountains of evidence on Earth suggesting things that were untrue would be to trick people. Now, if He told me that He'd deliberately warped the natural order repeatedly in a way that makes Genesis and other books literally true, then I'd just have to accept that. But short of God placing purposefully misleading evidence all over, then it is not literal, but still can be true in an allegorical sense. You're well aware that Jesus taught in parables. Think of Genesis as the parables preached by God himself. In both cases, the stories told are not real, but metaphors underlining a greater truth and overall message

I'm not saying God is a trickster god. He does test your faith in Him though. Remember what He did to Abraham and his son, Isaac? Telling him to offer his son as a sacrifice and then telling Abraham later not to do it. You're just wrong, Kdall. I'm sorry!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

and what did science do when it was discovered that Piltdown man was not a real find?

I'll give you a hint - Piltdown man was removed from any display, investigations into just how the fraud was perpetrated were carried out and science has never denied that it got duped rather wanting to learn how not to get fooled again.

No contrast that response with your own out of hand rejection of anything and everything that you don't happen to like.

Dear TracerBullet,

Now contrast, you mean, right? It's okay. My rejection of how man dates things is my own beliefs. I think he's wrong, whether it's a half-life, or a quarter-life, or a 16th-life. I don't trust it all one bit!!

Michael

 

[Stripe]

Well this is the mid Atlantic ridge. An entire mountain chain covered in water.this is Pikes Peaka mountain not covered in water. According to you Pikes Peak can't be anything but underwater. So explain why it's not.

Evolutionists hate reading.

If Pike's Peak were to be covered in water, pretty much all of the Earth would have to be flooded.

 

[Kdall]

Actually, yes. Yours. Without source or reference, what you say is what you say.

And regardless, the identity of source is irrelevant.

Translation: unsourced information is just your opinion (fair enough), but your sourced information is also wrong because I don't like it (Stripe again proves his idiotic subjectivity)

 

[Kdall]

I'm not saying God is a trickster god. He does test your faith in Him though. Remember what He did to Abraham and his son, Isaac? Telling him to offer his son as a sacrifice and then telling Abraham later not to do it. You're just wrong, Kdall. I'm sorry!!

Michael

Michael, can you tell me why God would mislead His people by deliberately placing the wrong evidence all over Earth? What rhyme or reason is there to that? Other than thinking its a funny joke (and it would be), there isn't one.

 

[MichaelCadry]

:dunce:





Well this is the mid Atlantic ridge.

An entire mountain chain covered in water.



this is Pikes Peak

a mountain not covered in water. According to you Pikes Peak can't be anything but underwater. So explain why it's not.

I can do that. The Mid-Atlantic ridge is a ridge, not a mountain. Besides, there is no global flood going on right now. For God to cover the highest mountain in the world with Flood waters, He'd cover Pike's Peak also. That's it in a nutshell.

Michael

 

[Kdall]

Dear TracerBullet,

Now contrast, you mean, right? It's okay. My rejection of how man dates things is my own beliefs. I think he's wrong, whether it's a half-life, or a quarter-life, or a 16th-life. I don't trust it all one bit!!

Michael

At least you are willing to admit that it's your personal beliefs and not a statement of certainty, unlike some others here

 

[MichaelCadry]

Michael, can you tell me why God would mislead His people by deliberately placing the wrong evidence all over Earth? What rhyme or reason is there to that? Other than thinking its a funny joke (and it would be), there isn't one.

Dear Kdall,

God lets man choose his beliefs. He lets you be tested. We'll put it that way. He lets men and women believe by faith. Otherwise, He would just show every single person on Earth that He exists, and then they would all receive the same reward. But no, He does things differently. The time will soon come that He will let everyone know that He is there and so is Jesus. Give it a bit and you'll find out. Those who believed in Him by faith will receive a better reward. Anyone can love you if you're being good to them all of the time. But how about when the chips are down, or you're being tested. Those who still love you have REAL love for you.

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Stripe,

Thanks so very much for all of your help 2nite!!

Brethren In Christ,

Michael

 

[6days]

Yes, His Word tells us in Genesis 7*The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. 19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits.[a] 21 Every living thing that moved on land perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; people and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.
24 The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.

And every time it says "Earth" there it was translated from "eretz" and should be "region."

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the REGION..."?

Two of each regional domestic animal were brought aboard

Genesis 7 "Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean*animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate,*3*and also seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive*throughout the earth.*4*Seven days from now I will send rain*on the earth*for forty days*and forty nights,*and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.”

aboard a medium-sized round vessel

About 450' long (135 meter)
150' wide and 3 floors high.
Capacity about 550 rail cars.

*and the water could very well have risen to the point that tall, rocky hills in the region were nearly swallowed up.

Genesis7:19,20
Finally, the water covered even the highest mountains on the earth,*rising more than twenty-two feet above the highest peaks.

 

[6days]

You are so thick.

You like my muscles?

Each successive generation can only be less fit if artificial circumstances come into play. In nature, a less fit animal will get killed faster than others and therefore NOT pass on its genes.*

You believe in evolution although you have very little understanding of science. In humans each*generation passes on somewhere between a dozen and a couple hundred mutations...depending on which geneticist you talk to. Of these, the vast majority are considered neutral or, mildly deleterious.*Kondrashov in 2002 (Human Mutation 21) drastically underestimated the number of new deleterious mutations at about 10 new per generation. He said "at least 100 new mutations" per generation and at least"10%" of these are deleterious". With the Encode results, he has now said there could be 300 additional mutations per generation with as much as 30% considered harmful.*Natural selection is incapable of detecting anything but the rarest most extreme mutations. In animal populations we see the effects of mutations in the hundreds of species extinctions that happen every year.*

Now, explain your population bomb to me so that I can A) dismiss it as a YEC lie, or B) prove that you've misrepresented a term that actually is an established evolutionary principle

Yes....you always seem to dismiss things as a lie if it challenges your beliefs.*

Geneticist*Crow in PNAS 94 (1997) said " I do regard mutation accumulation as a problem. It is something like the*the population bomb*but with a much longer fuse.*"