Creation vs. Evolution

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MichaelCadry

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Life Before Quantum Physics


Science and religion have been at divisive odds during Earth’s entire existence…until recently, that is. The scientific phenomenon known as Quantum Physics (Quantum Theory) has been discovered and is being widely embraced by many scientific leaders. The more that is learned about quantum physics, the more we discover it’s Biblical basis and it’s proof of God’s perfect design. At the turn of the 20th century, scientists assumed they had uncovered all the basic fundamental laws and rules that governed our existence. It wasn’t until physicists like Max Planck, Niels Bohr and Albert Einstein began to study particles using newer technologies, that they discovered a whole sub-layer of physics that involved the very small, mysterious units of matter and energy. This new discovery left them bewildered and unable to fully explain the phenomena they witnessed before their eyes. Thus, the birth of this strange and mysterious truth of science.

What is Quantum Physics?

In essence, quantum physics is the study of matter and energy at very small, nanoscopic levels, beginning at nuclei, atoms and molecules. Modern science declares that "quanta particles" (light particle wave packets) form atoms. These atoms form molecules and molecules form objects—everything that we can see is made up of these quanta particles. What makes these quanta particles so special is that they do not behave in ways according to known laws of physics, thus making them more of a series of probabilities, rather than something we can scientifically define and observe. Everything that we can see is made up of things that we cannot see—unseen particles. It is in this unexplained, fundamental discovery in science that we find our first Biblical evidence of this phenomenon in Hebrews 11:3 "By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God’s command, that what we now see did not come from anything that can be seen." (NLT)

May the Force Be With You

So we understand that quantum physics defines that everything is made up of little bits, but what is the force holding the quanta particles, atoms and molecules together? The answer is LIGHT. Light keeps electrons tied to the nuclei of atoms, and atoms tied together to make molecules and objects. All forms of matter are actually made up of solidified light. Here we find our second Biblical evidence of God’s perfect design in the creation of this world, "Then God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. And God saw the light was good." (Genesis 1: 3-4, NLT) Throughout the rest of Genesis, God continued creating the splendor of the world--the sky, they earth, the ocean, the sun, the moon, the creatures and finally, man. Light was the first thing He made before all else. Light was essential to create these things, since His design requires the light force to bind our particles together.

Space and Time

Prior to the discovery of quantum physics, most scientists believed that time and space only existed in a linear, continuous fashion. One scientist in particular, Albert Einstein, whom spent much time studying quantum physics, made a parallel discovery that time and space were relative, not absolute as they were believed before (the Theory of Relativity). After spending may years trying to refute his findings in quantum physics, Albert Einstein conceded to this phenomenon and was quoted as saying "For us physicists, the distinction between past, present and future is only an illusion." From that point on, scientists began to accept the truth they witnessed within the quanta particles and they acknowledged that even time and space contain the smallest possible values. It is by God’s design that our minds transcend space and time, "But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." 2 Peter 3:8 NIV. We are reminded of His majesty in Job 36:26, "How great is God—beyond our understanding! The number of his years is past finding out." NIV

The Afterlife

More recently in 2007, one scientist claims to have discovered a theory within quantum physics that provides and explanation for death and afterlife. Dr. Robert Lanza, developed the theory of biocentrism which states that the existence of life and biology are central to being, reality and the cosmos—our consciousness. In essence, it is that life creates the universe, rather than the other way around. Dr. Lanza uses the famous "double-slit test" to illustrate his point: the double slit test is an experiment of light and matter which found that it can display characteristics of both waves and particles—it’s behavior changes depending on the observer’s perception and consciousness—quite an unexplained phenomenon of quantum physics! Dr. Lanza asks "Why does our observation change what happens? Answer: Because reality is a process that requires our consciousness." He claims that this experiment would explain the quantum effects of the afterlife and supports the many reports of afterlife experiences by people who have died, visited another realm and lived to tell about it. One such supporter of this theory is Dr. Eben Alexander, whom cannot scientifically explain his experience visiting heaven when he was clinically brain dead, thus making it scientifically impossible to generate any neurologic activity and brain function. He said, 'My journey deep into coma, outside this lowly physical realm and into the loftiest dwelling place of the almighty Creator, revealed the indescribably immense chasm between our human knowledge and the awe-inspiring realm of God." He goes on to state, "The brain itself does not produce consciousness. That it is, instead, a kind of reducing valve or filter, shifting the larger, nonphysical consciousness that we possess in the nonphysical worlds down into a more limited capacity for the duration of our mortal lives." (Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey Into the Afterlife, 2012) While Dr. Lanza’s theory is not widely embraced by fellow scientists, his discovery in conjunction with quantum physics certainly could shed light on God’s promise of eternal life to those who believe (John 3:16). As the Bible so beautifully explains in 2 Corinthians 4:18 "So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal."


See what you think of this, 6days. I'll see how things go this week and next, before making a final decision. It's a hard question. Everything was fine and easy believing what I did as a YEC, but certain OEC issues haunt me.

Michael
 
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6days

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MichaelCadry said:
*I*am leaning towards being an OEC quite quickly.
I will tell you the same thing that I told you a year ago when you said you were leaning towards YEC.*
I told you not to accept what myself, or anyone else says but to trust God's Word for absolute truth.

For your consideration....
Jesus said "As a result, this generation will be held responsible for the murder of all God's prophets*from the creation of the world-from the murder of Abel*to the murder of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, it will certainly be charged against this generation.*Luke 11:50,51

Jesus also quoted from the creation account speaking of humans saying "But 'God made them male and female'*from the beginning of creation. Mark 10:6

Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won't be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth. Eph. 4:14
 

NathanM

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Just curious - does any rational person here actually believe that posting to this forum constitutes an announcement to the Geological community?
 

The Barbarian

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Jesus also quoted from the creation account speaking of humans saying "But 'God made them male and female'*from the beginning of creation. Mark 10:6

From the beginning of their creation. However, let's see what God says was there at the beginning of the creation of the universe:

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created heaven, and earth. [2] And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.

No male or female. Truth cannot contradict truth. So either God is wrong, or Jesus was speaking of the creation of our race.

Instead of taking bits of scripture in isolation consider His word as it is.

Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won't be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth. Eph. 4:14
 

6days

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Barbarian said:
6days said:
Jesus said "As a result, this generation will be held responsible for the murder of all God's prophets from the creation of the world-from the murder of Abel*to the murder of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, it will certainly be charged against this generation.*Luke 11:50,51

Jesus also quoted from the creation account speaking of humans saying "But 'God made them male and female' from the beginning of creation.*Mark 10:6
From the beginning of their creation.
"THEIR creation..."??

Your spin has been noted.
 

DavisBJ

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I have the text of the posts that were lost in the recent TOL database problem (for this thread only), if anyone needs them.
 

Yorzhik

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Yorzhik said:
So, moving beyond epistemology, science says the century of gathered and scrutinized evidence shows common descent is wrong.
Funny that belief is mostly found in people who don't have a clue about science.
Even funnier is how those people you claim don't have a clue about science are correct.

Many creationists who are educated, freely admit that there is evidence for evolution.
You say "evolution" here when I think you mean "common descent". That being said, I am talking in the context of common descent.

I admit there is evidence of common descent. What evidence do you admit is correct on the YEC side of the argument?
 

DAN P

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Dear All,

It says that God created the Universe, Heaven and Earth, the host of heaven, etc. "And God called the light Day and the darkness Night. And the evening and the morning were the "1st Day". "And God separated and divided the waters which were above and the waters on Earth, and He created the firmament (Heaven). And that was the second day.

And it goes on further to say that that God created the Earth and Seas; plants and trees. And the evening and the morning were the third day. And in the fourth day, God made the hosts of Heaven, tons of angels and servants (helpers), including the Sun and the Moon, all on one day. And the planets, etc. And Orion and the Big Dipper, so they could be used for signs and for seasons, for days and for years.

Then it says that on the fifth day, God created great whales and everything in the seas, and He brought forth fowl from the waters to fly in the firmament. And this was alot of work. But for God to create all of that in 24 hours, no big deal. Then, in the sixth day, God created all of the creatures of the Earth, beasts, cattle, mastodons, elephants, beasts, dinosaurs {Ty Rex, Brontosaurus, raptors, etc. Even alligators, crocodiles, tortoises and turtle, armadillo, dinosaurs}. I know much more than these. And all of the creeping critters, and bugs {roaches, millipedes, centipedes, etc}. Then God created Man and then Woman. And all of this was done during the sixth day. Now, God said all He has to do is speak what He wants to envision and that it does not come back to Him Undone. I will find that quote for you soon. That He just gives the word and it is. He is the Master Chemist don't forget. He is Grand and Great, and Omnipotent, and Full Of Love To Give For Those Who Want It. But as loving as He is, yes He has also had to create a bottomless pit in the center of the earth. It has a center and a top (because of gravity) but no bottom, figuratively. It also has hot magma and lava and is Hell. The Lake of Fire is our Sun. And once our Sun burns out, God will provide another sun for the devil to burn in. Now, He does all of these things because He knows what the future would bring, and that man can not help but fall, because they are no match for the devil, Satan. That's why we're having a time now of learning how to choose good from evil, and keeping the good or keeping the evil, or some of both, which makes us have certain personalities.

Okay, you must realize that when God created Adam, that was roughly back 7 or 8 thousand years? Now when God created Adam, he did not create him as an infant, but instead as a man. Also God did not create a young Universe and planet Earth, or Our Sun and Moon. Instead He created them older. Same with the creatures, cattle, fowl, beasts, creeping things, etc. He did not make eggs, He made already mature bugs, and same with cattle, fowl, etc. You cannot expect that God took more than 6 days to create everything. Okay, am going to get going. This will become my OP on my Creation vs. Evolution thread. It's long overdue. It's a lot easier to explain, too. These things found in amber, etc., must only truly be 7 or 8,000 years. They just look aged for our sakes. OK, will close for now. God Bestow A Big Kiss On Your Foreheads!!

Michael

The Lord God has wiped the earth clean before and He will do it nearly again, leaving a third of the Earth's people this time. Remember Noah and his wife, of whom we are all descended from, therefore we are ALL Brothers and Sisters, who don't get along well. Ishmael is the ancestor of all of the Arab people. I hope I've explained this well enough for now. If God decides to wipe us all off of the earth for sin, who would wonder why? Look at this earth and tell me what shape it is in? What are you going to do about it?? Forget your Evolution idea!! There is a Higher Power that oversees every little change in every creature He forms. Every nucleus, atom, genome, DNA, electron, etc. That's all, just for now. Re-read and study, and look in your Bibles. Things are happening that you don't know about yet. But the time is upon us.

May the Lord God Continue to Bless the Lord Jesus,

{For the 'Lord' God said to MY 'Lord' Jesus; Sit thou at my right hand until I make thy enemies thy footstool.}

He is doing just that. Can you understand any of this?? Please, if you have any comments, keep them civil and maybe kind? I'm trying here. My main message is that Jesus is Returning Soon. I am now a YEC (Young Earth Creationist) and have changed some parts of my message here.

Praise His Greatness and His Intense Imagination, Which Is An Incredible Amazing Thing!!!

Hi
 

MichaelCadry

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Thank you, DAN P., for reminding me where I am at. It's so easy to fall off of the wagon sometimes!! You're right! I should stand by what I've said. 6DAYS, thank you too!! For being there when I was having doubts. You both brought me back to being a YEC. It's really hard trying to figure out how did man come to be living 500,000 years ago, when in actuality, he wasn't. Because there was only 7,000 years ago instead. Now that makes more sense. I guess I'm not explaining this right. If the Earth were old and it was created during the same week as man, then if the Earth were 500,000 or 1,000,000 years old, so would men and women be that old. That doesn't make sense to me. I did pray again, by the way, and I stand corrected. I was just being tested. It's good to be back. It all makes more sense to me, to be honest. Will chat with you soon. DAN P. Write more here in this post and let us know a bit more about you. I see you've been here since 2008. Not bad at all!! Again, thanks to you and 6days!!

For And Because Of The Love Of God,

Michael

:guitar: :cloud9:
 

MichaelCadry

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Dear Kdall,

I'm sorry. We lost a few posts with this last TOL problem/glitch. Glad to see you're still posting here. You're a good Christian!!

Praise Jesus!!

Michael
 

The Barbarian

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Even funnier is how those people you claim don't have a clue about science are correct.

Quote:
Many creationists who are educated, freely admit that there is evidence for evolution.
You say "evolution" here when I think you mean "common descent". That being said, I am talking in the context of common descent.

I admit there is evidence of common descent. What evidence do you admit is correct on the YEC side of the argument?
 

The Barbarian

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Yorzhik writes:
Even funnier is how those people you claim don't have a clue about science are correct.

But you can't think of any? Isn't that a surprise.

Barbarian observes:
Many creationists who are educated, freely admit that there is evidence for evolution.

You say "evolution" here when I think you mean "common descent".

I meant the former, although the latter also happens to be true.

Kurt Wise, for example, admits that there are abundant transitional forms supporting common descent. He thinks that there aren't enough species-to-species transitions, however.

Kurt Patrick Wise is an American young earth creationist who serves as the Director of Creation Research Center at Truett-McConnell College. He has a PhD in geology from Harvard University. He's known for his writings in support for creationism as well as his work for the Creation Museum.
Wikipedia

And he notes that while the entire organisms are usually transitional, particular features are often not. Which doesn't make any difference to evolutionary theory.

That being said, I am talking in the context of common descent.

I admit there is evidence of common descent. What evidence do you admit is correct on the YEC side of the argument?

Hmm... the problem is that YECs, when pressed for evidence, usually present objections to science, not evidence for YEC. Normally, I get a claim based on perceived flaws in evolutionary theory, not evidence for YEC.

How about the fact that a regulated enzyme system looks like it was designed?
 

Stripe

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writes:But you can't think of any? Isn't that a surprise.Barbarian observes:Many creationists who are educated, freely admit that there is evidence for evolution.I meant the former, although the latter also happens to be true.Kurt Wise, for example, admits that there are abundant transitional forms supporting common descent. He thinks that there aren't enough species-to-species transitions, however.[COLOR="DarkRed"]Kurt Patrick Wise is an American young earth creationist who serves as the Director of Creation Research Center at Truett-McConnell College. He has a PhD in geology from Harvard University. He's known for his writings in support for creationism as well as his work for the Creation Museum.[/COLOR]WikipediaAnd he notes that while the entire organisms are usually transitional, particular features are often not. Which doesn't make any difference to evolutionary theory.Hmm... the problem is that YECs, when pressed for evidence, usually present objections to science, not evidence for YEC. Normally, I get a claim based on perceived flaws in evolutionary theory, not evidence for YEC. How about the fact that a regulated enzyme system looks like it was designed?
Meanwhile, you reject the plain teaching of the Bible. When you've picked a rational stance, perhaps you can be part of the conversation.
 

Kdall

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Meanwhile, you reject the plain teaching of the Bible. When you've picked a rational stance, perhaps you can be part of the conversation.

Help me out here. Is this the 36th or 37th time you've said that exact same thing this week?
 
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