Creation vs. Evolution

[MichaelCadry]

When the Hebrews were rewriting and exaggerating their history, they found it impossible to trace their pretentious bloodlines back to an Adam who they presumed was the first man since they had no science and were ignorant about evolution. To fill the gap they expanded a local flood legend to include the entire world.

Many people have been in other parts of the world for tens of thousands of years.

Dear Caino,

The Hebrews were not exaggerating their history or rewriting it. And they can indeed focus on how their lineage traces back to Adam. Who was your teacher for all of this stuff you're making up. I think it is the devil. Remember Jesus getting taunted by Satan in the desert while He was fasting for 40 days and nights? So don't tell me there is no Satan or devil. That resolved, now you know where you are getting your strange ideas. Your teacher sucks!! Your teacher is, and has always been, an imbecile and charlatan. So, he told you that man has been around for a million years?? Fat chance, Caino. God told us who came first and when he did. Don't let 'evolution' dissuade you from the truth. Adam was born ~6,000 years ago. If it weren't true, I think Jesus would have said so while He was here on Earth. Yeah, I suppose you don't even believe He was on Earth ~2,000 or so years ago. I'm sorry I have to be so blunt, Caino. You seem like a real nice guy and have a lot going for you. But you really should take some theology classes, or even Sunday School.

Watch Carefully What You Believe In, Or What Your Mind Makes Up!!

Michael

 

[6days]

So then your answer to the apparent conflict between you saying "rapid speciation is part of the Biblical model" and Stripe saying speciation never happens is*not*that Stripe says creationists shouldn't use the word species, and you agree with him?

You are forgetful.
You have been answered before...and often. Stripe and I agree. Science helps confirm the Bible, no matter if you call it rapid change...rapid speciation...rapid adaptation...speedy evolution.....breakneck transformation....accelerated variation...expeditious modification, or lickety split alteration. Organisms can adapt rapidly using God given pre-existing genetic information and mechanisms.

No wonder evolutionism caused racism to dramatically increase

You've been asked to back that up before and never provided anything,

You are forgetful.
You have been answered before...and often.
Even many evolutionists admit Darwinism caused a increase in racism. Would you like to see quotes from evolutionists, and examples, once again?

loss of pre-existing information perfectly fits the Biblical creation model.

You can't say what "genetic information" is or how to measure it

You are forgetful.
You have been answered before...and often.
I have provided various definitions... various websites... and even books for you to read where geneticists (Both secular and creationist) discuss functional genetic information....apobetic information....specified complexity....loss of genetic variation ...fitness reduction....cosyntics....operational universal information...etc.

You remind me of another creationist I used to interact with. She would repeat the same things over and over....

She must have been very patient with you as we are. We also have to keep repeating things to you.

 

[6days]

Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female.

Yes... very good. Jesus accepted Genesis as true history here quoting from Genesis. Humans were created in the beginning..... not at the end of millions of years of death, suffering and extinctions.

 

[6days]

Man is about 1,000,000 years old.

My uncle is 99.
But you are talking about a monkeys uncle, and just so stories.
Caino..... I often think you are a nice guy, but honestly....you post things you don't seem to have a clue about. Please tell us which human fossil is about 1 million years old.

 

[MichaelCadry]

My uncle is 99.
But you are talking about a monkeys uncle, and just so stories.
Caino..... I often think you are a nice guy, but honestly....you post things you don't seem to have a clue about. Please tell us which human fossil is about 1 million years old.

Dear 6days,

You never cease to amaze me!! It pleases me well. Wonderful posts!! I hope you never tire of being here!! You always know what to say. He gives you the words through your guardian angel. The angels are there to help. I can tell that God is definitely with you, but don't let it go to your head. Being humble has it's rewards! It's an important matter. Only Satan takes away a man's humility!

In Christ's Love And Mine,

Michael

 

[Jose Fly]

Stripe and I agree. Science helps confirm the Bible, no matter if you call it rapid change...rapid speciation...rapid adaptation...speedy evolution.....breakneck transformation....accelerated variation...expeditious modification, or lickety split alteration. Organisms can adapt rapidly using God given pre-existing genetic information and mechanisms.

Well 6days, given your previous ridiculous statements about science I guess it's hardly surprising to see you spout this sort of gibberish when trying to defend your religious faith from a scientific perspective. See, I got news for you.....in science, terms do matter. So when you try and say it doesn't matter what term you use to refer to an event, that's a bit of an issue.

I mean, it's like you don't even realize that what you just said above renders your claim, "rapid speciation is part of the Biblical model", meaningless. You can't say what "rapid speciation" is (even to the point of not being able to come up with a consistent term for it), nor can you say what this "Biblical model" it allegedly confirms is.

IOW, the statement "Rapid speciation is part of the Biblical model" is nothing but a couple of nonsensical terms (rapid speciation and Biblical model) with a verb between them.

You are forgetful.
You have been answered before...and often.
Even many evolutionists admit Darwinism caused a increase in racism. Would you like to see quotes from evolutionists, and examples, once again?

Are you saying that if "evolutionists" say something is true, it automatically is? No data required?

You are forgetful.
You have been answered before...and often.

Yep, and last we checked in you admitted that "genetic information" wasn't measurable, nor have you ever defined it.

I have provided various definitions

Give one.

... various websites... and even books for you to read where geneticists (Both secular and creationist) discuss functional genetic information....apobetic information....specified complexity....loss of genetic variation ...fitness reduction....cosyntics....operational universal information...etc.

But no actual definition of "genetic information", nor a way to measure it. If you had them you would post them.

She must have been very patient with you as we are. We also have to keep repeating things to you.

Yep, just like you, she figured whatever self-contradictory, circular nonsense she could make up counted as an "answer" and was so delusional and without moral character, neither realized how ridiculous it made her nor nor did she care.

 

[6days]

Yep, just like you, she figured whatever self-contradictory, circular nonsense she could make up counted as an "answer" and was so delusional and without moral character, neither realized how ridiculous it made her nor nor did she care.

Glad you are part of the TOL community Jose. It wouldn't be as interesting without you.

 

[6days]

You can't say what "rapid speciation" is (even to the point of not being able to come up with a consistent term for it), nor can you say what this "Biblical model" it allegedly confirms is.

Well..... as Stripe has mentioned the word 'speciation' is a rubbery evolutionist word. But generally it means when an isolated population no longer breeds with the parent population.
This is what was posted before on the topic....
Rapid Adaptation

Evidence in the case of evolution versus creation generally better supports the creation account. However most people do not realize that. Most people have never been taught anything about the creation model. So evidence is always interpreted in light of the only model that they have been taught, the evolution model.

One example of the misunderstanding that most evolutionists have is regarding the ability of animals to quickly adapt to changing environments. Especially in the past, evolutionists thought change and speciation was a slow gradual process taking millions of years. The creationist model calls for the ability to rapidly change and even rapid speciation. Adaptation~ speciation usually happens when natural selection, 'selects' information that already exists in the genome. It is a process identified by a creationist (Edward Blyth) before Charles Darwin popularized the notion. It is a process similar to that of breeding animals... artificial selection. Selection is a process that usually eliminates unwanted information... It does not create new information.

As an example Darwin noted different species of finches in the Galapagos Islands. Evolutionists thought that these species have developed over the course of up to 5,000,000 years. That time frame was not based on science, but on the belief that everything evolved from a common ancestor over the course of millions and millions of years. Real science involving observation has now shown that these different species likely developed over the course of a few hundred years.

But even a few hundred years is a very long time. Speciation can happen over the course of just a few generations.... a matter of several years. Sticklefish have speciated / rapidly adapted in a very short time period.

Another example of rapid speciation (creationist model) comes from a study of guppies in Trinidad. One of the researchers speaking from the evolutionary perspective says " ‘The guppies adapted to their new environment in a mere four years—a rate of change some 10,000 to 10 million times faster than the average rates determined from the fossil record" IE. He says that the actual observed rate does not match the evolutionary assumptions of million of years in the fossil record.
science; Predator-free guppies take an evolutionary leap forward (Morell)

Rapid changes are bewildering to evolutionists..... but make perfect sense in the creationist model. God created most things with a very polytypic genome ( programmed variation) . They can change and adapt to various situations because of the wide array of info in their DNA.

Other examples of the ability of animals to adapt quickly:
Fruit flies grow longer wings...
... evolutionists are 'alarmed'
New Scientist 165 wrote:
"Flying out of control—alien species can evolve at an alarming rate"


Frogs seemingly 'evolve' in 1 generation...
... Evolutionists are surprised.
Science Daily wrote:
"However, the results show that in many cases, species with eggs and tadpoles placed in water seem to give rise directly to species with direct development, without going through the many seemingly intermediate steps that were previously thought to be necessary "
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0910142632.htm


And the best one showing.....
... Evolutionists are unscientific.
Bird species changes fast but without genetic differences (species-specific DNA markers)...
"Rapid phenotypic evolution during incipient speciation in a continental avian radiation" Proceedings of the Royal Society B.
The researchers suggest that the lack of genetic markers may mean the changes in these birds happened so fast that the genes haven't had a chance to catch up yet!!!!

That's a few of the many examples of adaptation and speciation that support the Biblical model, contradicting the evolutionist model of slow gradual change over millions of years.
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?110849-Rapid-Adaptation

 

[6days]

Being humble has it's rewards....don't let it go to your head.

Thanks Michael. Yes, Jose is here to remind me that I am delusional, ridiculous, and without moral character, posting self-contradictory, circular nonsense. I try to keep that in mind..... but at the same time realizing I am a child of the King! He knew and loved me before He made me.
Michael.....I would like to share an intimate message to me from my Father. http://www.fathersloveletter.com/

 

[Jose Fly]

Well..... as Stripe has mentioned the word 'speciation' is a rubbery evolutionist word. But generally it means when an isolated population no longer breeds with the parent population.

And does Stripe agree with that definition?

 

[6days]

And does Stripe agree with that definition?

Haha....What is important is that there is no definition for "speciate" that even evolutionists agree on.
Stripe would like to use a term that is more accurate..... without all the fudge factors of evolutionist wording and definitions. On the other hand, I don't mind using that particular word since it seems to 'resonate' with evolutionists. Rapid speciation (adaptation) fits the Biblical model. Rapid adaptation is possible because of pre-existing genetic info. Evidence of our Creator.

 

[Rosenritter]

Because Anthropologist have concluded that. Why don't you believe it?

That has got to be one of the most inane reasoning pieces I've heard recently. Why I don't believe it? Because I happen to know the person that created the heavens and the earth, and he spoke to us about 2000 years ago and signed his book for me in his blood. He even raised himself from the dead to prove who He was. And He says that everything that we see on this planet civilization-wise is within the 4400 year period.

Wonderful. You found an "Anthropologist" who claims that humanity has been here for a million years. That's so precious. I was hoping that you had some sort of data, or an evidence of some sort. Something other than faith in an Anthropologist.

 

[Jose Fly]

Haha....What is important is that there is no definition for "speciate" that even evolutionists agree on.
Stripe would like to use a term that is more accurate..... without all the fudge factors of evolutionist wording and definitions. On the other hand, I don't mind using that particular word since it seems to 'resonate' with evolutionists.

You forget too soon. The conflict here is between you saying "rapid speciation is part of the Biblical model" and Stripe saying speciation never happens. You've attempted to resolve that conflict by saying when you mean "speciation" you mean "when an isolated population no longer breeds with the parent population".

So now we'll wait to see if Stripe agrees with that definition, if it happens, and if it's part of the "Biblical model".

Rapid speciation (adaptation) fits the Biblical model. Rapid adaptation is possible because of pre-existing genetic info. Evidence of our Creator.

You are truly one of the more bizarre creationists I've ever encountered, and that's saying a lot. I don't know if I've ever seen someone be so mindlessly repetitious as you. It's like you are a fundie-bot come to life.

 

[Jose Fly]

And btw 6days, I especially liked all the questions you just blew off. So despite all your bluster, you've still not...

Answered whether you were saying that if "evolutionists" say something is true, it automatically is? No data required?

Given a definition of "genetic information".

Stated whether you have, since previously admitting that "genetic information" can't be measured, found a way to do so.

Well done 6days, well done....

 

[MichaelCadry]

Thanks Michael. Yes, Jose is here to remind me that I am delusional, ridiculous, and without moral character, posting self-contradictory, circular nonsense. I try to keep that in mind..... but at the same time realizing I am a child of the King! He knew and loved me before He made me.
Michael.....I would like to share an intimate message to me from my Father. http://www.fathersloveletter.com/

Dear 6days,

That was an exceptional video. Just everything it could have possibly been! Certainly it would be wise for the atheist person to also listen to it. Perhaps it would sink in then. I don't know of one atheist though, who has ever been changed. They must have done something awfully bad in a past life that causes this problem. I hope that they will strive instead to find God's favor and forgiveness now, while they have the chance. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow us all the days of our lives!!

Thanks so very much for sharing that perfect gem of a video. I usually do not click on links. I usually don't have the time to listen to any of them. But I did it for you because I trust you and know that you won't steer me wrong. Best piece of video I've ever seen!! Our Dad is there for us!!

The Choir In Heaven Sings God's Praises Constantly For A Good Reason!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

And btw 6days, I especially liked all the questions you just blew off. So despite all your bluster, you've still not...

Answered whether you were saying that if "evolutionists" say something is true, it automatically is? No data required?

Given a definition of "genetic information".

Stated whether you have, since previously admitting that "genetic information" can't be measured, found a way to do so.

Well done 6days, well done....

Dear Jose,

What are you cooking in your kitchen?? Serve us a portion of that, and we all die a horrible eternal life. You are the one who is so very, undaunted and exasperating by the things you keep repeating. You are accusing 6days of the same thing that you constantly do yourself. What are you cooking in Your kitchen?? I meant to do that. Hopefully, you're going to make something good ~ like pizza!! Yummm! This is like a 'parable.' You can't understand why I wrote it even though it seems to be knowable by a more keen mind. Jesus did that a lot!!

Much Love, In Christ's Example, Jose,

Michael

 

[Caino]

Thanks for the insulting compliment not really.

Bible worshipers have a valve in their brain which closes when ANY facts try to come through that are inconsistent with the discredited, enchanting stories of the Hebrews.

These fossils which according to the Urantia revelation would be pre-human are dated to 2.8 million years old. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/03/150304-homo-habilis-evolution-fossil-jaw-ethiopia-olduvai-gorge/

 

[Caino]

Dear Caino,

The Hebrews were not exaggerating their history or rewriting it. And they can indeed focus on how their lineage traces back to Adam. Who was your teacher for all of this stuff you're making up. I think it is the devil. Remember Jesus getting taunted by Satan in the desert while He was fasting for 40 days and nights? So don't tell me there is no Satan or devil. That resolved, now you know where you are getting your strange ideas. Your teacher sucks!! Your teacher is, and has always been, an imbecile and charlatan. So, he told you that man has been around for a million years?? Fat chance, Caino. God told us who came first and when he did. Don't let 'evolution' dissuade you from the truth. Adam was born ~6,000 years ago. If it weren't true, I think Jesus would have said so while He was here on Earth. Yeah, I suppose you don't even believe He was on Earth ~2,000 or so years ago. I'm sorry I have to be so blunt, Caino. You seem like a real nice guy and have a lot going for you. But you really should take some theology classes, or even Sunday School.

Watch Carefully What You Believe In, Or What Your Mind Makes Up!!

Michael

I grew up in a moderate Methodist church. I never believed much of Genesis. Its funny, I had no problem with Jesus, it was just all the nonsense associated with him.

Anyway, If I said I saw a purple dinosaur at the mall that would be so silly to you that you wouldn't react or even respond. However, when I say that much of the Jews self important creation story is human speculation, you become nasty and defensive, that really bothers you because deep down in your heart you hear the truth of what I'm saying.

The Jews hated Jesus, not because he was so obviously wrong, it was because he was so obviously right.

The facts contained within the archeological record of the earth don't match what Genesis says. You can mock me and be as nasty as you want, its not my earth or my truth. The facts still remain while you are just emotional.

 

[Caino]

That has got to be one of the most inane reasoning pieces I've heard recently. Why I don't believe it? Because I happen to know the person that created the heavens and the earth, and he spoke to us about 2000 years ago and signed his book for me in his blood. He even raised himself from the dead to prove who He was. And He says that everything that we see on this planet civilization-wise is within the 4400 year period.

Wonderful. You found an "Anthropologist" who claims that humanity has been here for a million years. That's so precious. I was hoping that you had some sort of data, or an evidence of some sort. Something other than faith in an Anthropologist.

No, you weren't hoping I had data, that's dishonest. You have a closed mind, sealed by the bias of religious speculation. You put your faith in Holy books rather than the spirit of God, therefore such a shaky foundation leads you to be defensive towards anything which conflicts with that false foundation.

In terms of YEC what you have is faith not proof.

 

[6days]

You forget too soon.* The conflict here is between you saying "rapid speciation is part of the Biblical model" and Stripe saying speciation never happens.* You've attempted to resolve that conflict....

There is no conflict. You seem to forget there are many words we can use to describe rapid change...rapid speciation...rapid adaptation...speedy evolution.....breakneck transformation....accelerated variation...expeditious modification, or lickety split alteration. Organisms can adapt rapidly using God given pre-existing genetic information and mechanisms.

You've attempted to resolve that conflict by saying when you mean "speciation" you mean "when an isolated population no longer breeds with the parent population".

There is no conflict. What I said was "GENERALLY,it means when an isolated population no longer breeds with the parent population." But "there is no definition for "speciate" that even evolutionists agree on."