Creation vs. Evolution II

[Jonahdog]

You seem to forget that this silly argument of yours has been shown false many times. God created in an orderly way making discovery possible. In fact, modern science is rooted in the belief that creation is orderly, making science possible.

Wow, talk about an absurd statement given your fear based need to accept a literal Genesis.

 

[Stuu]

Maxwell’s equations can be used to derive a value which is implicitly thought to be the speed of light. But when it comes to experimentally verifying that light indeed always travels at that speed, I am not aware of any experiment that has been successful. To measure the one-way speed requires synchronization of some kind of clocks on both the transmitting end and the receiving end. But it is impossible, as far as I know, to perform that synchronization without (sometimes very subtly) involving a two-way exchange of information, which then compromises the goal of the experiment.

That being said, the only YEC that I know that is (was?) actively proposing the one-way speed as being infinite towards the earth (and therefore half-speed away) is Jason Lisle. There are astrophysicists who contend that having the earth be unique in that way requires the earth have a privileged space-time position that would have other consequences – consequences that are not seen.

Indeed. And I accept that both models appear consistent with the observable universe. But it still has to be explained how Maxwell and Einstein can be right for a round-trip measurement, with the operation of the values of permittivity and permeability (and photon mass) contained therein, but the model of the propagation of light through space can be wrong because there are separate values for the constants depending on the direction of travel. How can magnetic fields or electric fields move into the next bit of space-time in two (or more?) different ways?

AiG calls it a theory, but of course it's not. As usual.

Stuart

 

[Greg Jennings]

Yes Adam automatically knew language. I don't know, but I imagine he also was very capable of written language.
The various Bible authors record their failures and God's reconciliation. (Restoring relationship). Fortunately, you and I do not have to record our failures for all the world to read...But, God is still loving us, and wanting relationship. He has forgiven all many failures.

You believe ridiculous things that have been proven untrue, such as the first humans could write and speak language (I mean this is just overwhelmingly false) while rejecting well established scientific methods such as radiometric+stratigraphic dating techniques. If you can't see the irony there, then bless you

What was God's reconciliation with Adam?

 

[6days]

You believe ridiculous things that have been proven untrue, such as the first humans could write and speak language

God created humans as highly intelligent beings. We know they spoke language.
Your belief system that man developed language skill has lead to false conclusions about Neandertals.

 

[6days]

Your story, while good, is essentially an example of when circumstantial evidence leads to a wrong conclusion.

Examples: coelacanths, Junk DNA, pseudogenes, Neandertals, Miller Urey, useless appendix ETC

But let’s move the scenario so that it is a bit more like the discussions we are having. Now when asserting his innocence the young man explains that girls turn into pillars of salt, and that he has seen rivers turn to blood, and converses with snakes and donkeys, and knows of someone who lived inside a fish for a few days, and knows of a man’s wife who wasn’t born, but instead was formed from her fiancé’s rib. Now the police turn to an array of scientific experts to see if they see any problems with his alibi. The police have trouble getting an answer from the scientists, because the whole bunch of them are rolling on the floor convulsing in laughter.

And... Your young man is given a padded cell.
We could also, put your young man in a padded cell for claiming that life arose from inorganic materials...that everything came from nothing.
However, in the case of Lot's wife we have evidence of divine inspiration...an omnipotent, omniscient God. We have evidence of inerrancy supported by historical accounts and supported by science.

 

[6days]

So you need the universe to have formed with Earth is the very centre

Nope... not true.

and the rest of the universe to be created with a fully comprehensive history

We have the History book of the universe.

so that the universe could LOOK old...

It doesn't look old. You rely on all types of hypothetical entities attempting to make your "old" beliefs match the real world.

Why does the word of God not match the Works of God in a consistent way?

Science ALWAYS is consistent with God's Word

 

[Greg Jennings]

God created humans as highly intelligent beings. We know they spoke language.
Your belief system that man developed language skill has lead to false conclusions about Neandertals.

Oh really? So tell me, did Neanderthals have writing language?


And you didn't answer before, what was God's reconciliation with Adam?

 

[Jonahdog]

Nope... not true.
We have the History book of the universe.

It doesn't look old. You rely on all types of hypothetical entities attempting to make your "old" beliefs match the real world.
Science ALWAYS is consistent with God's Word

So God's Word says the universe is billions of years old and humans are apes. Thanks, glad you cleared that up for me.

 

[Stuu]

So God's Word says the universe is billions of years old and humans are apes. Thanks, glad you cleared that up for me.

And, since bats aren't birds, the Jewish bible is not consistent with science. And it's not consistent with science that humans walk again after being judicially killed, so the NT isn't consistent with science.

So the Judeo-christian scriptures are not god's word.

Stuart

 

[6days]

Oh really? So tell me, did Neanderthals have writing language?

We don't know if this particular people group had lost writing skill or not. We do know, contrary to evolutionist claims in the past, Neandertals were intelligent and as capable of speech as you and I.

And you didn't answer before, what was God's reconciliation with Adam?

Col. 1 May help you, although I'm not sure what your actual question is. Are you wondering if OT believers have been reconciled?

 

[6days]

And, since bats aren't birds, the Jewish bible is not consistent with science.

God's Word and science are ALWAYS consistent. Science often ends up proving evolutionist claims false...the Bible correct.
BTW... The Bible does not call a bat, a 'bird'. The verse you refer to uses the word owph which is winged creatures.

 

[Stuu]

God's Word and science are ALWAYS consistent. Science often ends up proving evolutionist claims false...the Bible correct.
BTW... The Bible does not call a bat, a 'bird'. The verse you refer to uses the word owph which is winged creatures.

Nope. It says bat. Definitely.

Stuart

 

[ok doser]

And, since bats aren't birds...

what makes you think bats aren't birds? :freak:

 

[Stuu]

what makes you think bats aren't birds? :freak:

The work of Carl Linnaeus, a creationist, tells me.

Stuart

 

[ok doser]

The work of Carl Linnaeus, a creationist, tells me.

Stuart

carl linoleum, the uppsalian ubermensch?


i believe he's been dead for a few hundred years

 

[Greg Jennings]

God's Word and science are ALWAYS consistent. Science often ends up proving evolutionist claims false...the Bible correct.
BTW... The Bible does not call a bat, a 'bird'. The verse you refer to uses the word owph which is winged creatures.

Ok. So if the word was owph meaning winged creatures, and the writer made sure to include both bats and birds under that umbrella.......why would he not also mention flying reptiles such as pterosaurs (since you believe that humans and dinosaurs coexisted)? Do you really think he'd leave out the largest winged creatures in existence?

 

[Stuu]

carl linoleum, the uppsalian ubermensch?

Indeed, the very same Carl von Linné.

Stuart

 

[Stuu]

We don't know if this particular people group had lost writing skill or not.

Is that the royal We?

Stuart

 

[MichaelCadry]

He couldn't in that scenario. You just found yet another hole in your Swiss cheese creation account.



Question: how do you think Adam supposedly recorded his creation and interactions with God? Did he automatically know language? (impossible) Did he write his account down? (Well writing wasn't created until Mesopotamian times, so highly unlikely)

You take all of these little details literally, down to the amount of stars he saw in the sky. If Adam had been kicked out of the garden by God, don't you think he would've recorded his experience a little differently? You know, with some anger and feeling of betrayal as humans are prone to do?

Dear GregJ,

Adam did not write the book of Genesis. Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible's Old Testament. Moses wrote them down with a lot of God's help. So he wrote what God said happened. God had talked to Moses before that and Moses even saw God's back parts, but not His face. God was quite able to tell Moses word for word what happened from Creation to Moses' time. No Adam did not pen the Book of Genesis. Come on.

Also, Greg, God used Chemistry to change Lot's wife into a pillar of salt. He turns other people's bodies into ashes and the dust of the Earth. He can do things you wouldn't fathom because you don't know Him. That's why you don't understand a lot of stuff. If He could make creatures and man out of the ground, He certainly could do whatever needs to be done to His Creations in an instant.

Why is it that you cling to your atheism, knowing that the great majority of people believe in God and Jesus, and the Bible. The Bible is the best-selling Book of all time. There must be a reason. You think that just because you are in the minority, that makes you right. I'm not saying it's based on a popularity contest, but instead a good sense belief by a lot of diverse people. God called on the ones who believe in Him, and the ones whom He hasn't called are the one's who don't believe in Him because they don't want to be bothered with God's rules or commandments. That is what's going on. You think that God treats His Creations unfairly. Well, you don't know the half of what is going on. You speak about Him and you've never read half of the Bible. So you don't know Him, but you like to speak against Him. That is blasphemy of God and that's not good at all. Jesus said that if you can't handle all of the commandments, at least keep the first two, namely, love God with all of your heart, and mind, and soul. And, love each other as God loves us. The rest of the commandments will fall into place at one time or another. Just keep two rules. Is that so hard?

Praise God!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Michael,

According to 6, the skull was originally estimated at somewhere over 200+ million years old. It is now thought to be 2 million.

6 rejects dating methods simply because they contradict everything he wishes were true: namely a 6000 year old Earth.

But let me be clear about this: 99+% of scientists accept evolution. So even though most of the community agrees, there are some detractors.
For radiometric dating, there are pretty much no detractors. There are simply no holes in radioactive breakdown. As long as you use the right method (C-14 for <75,000; U-Pb for billions; etc), are careful to avoid contamination, and repeat the process with consistent results, then the answer you get is airtight.


People like 6 can kick and scream about it all day long. That doesn't make it any less reliable

Dear Greg J.,

Now you want us to believe in Uranium/Lead radiometric dating, and other forms of radiometric dating using other elements. I don't trust your dating for a moment, just like you all swore to us up and down that C-14 dating was absolutely correct. You are wrong about man being Evolved instead of believing that God created him. You are dead wrong and yet you want me to believe your story about dating methods? Tell it to some gullible people instead.

Warmest Regards,

Michael