Creation vs. Evolution II

[gcthomas]

You are sounding angry GC.
Nobody said Pasteur dismissed evolution...adaptation. . He did use empirical science noticing how organisms change and adapt. He is perhaps one of the most famous biologists ever, and none of his conclusions had a thing to do with common ancestry beliefs.
Instead Pasteur praised the Creator God of the Bible for evidences of Him in nature.
(And...the quote you used does seem it may have been fabricated; correct?0

You said he rejected common ancestry, but you refuse to tell us how you know this. He certainly didn't accept any young earth credo, so why did you bring up his name?

 

[marhig]

Dear marhig,

Thanks so much for keeping an open mind and for being such a devout Christian as you seem to be to me. In the instances you gave to me, every one has a 24-hour day mentioned. In the day that the Lord comes will be in one day. In the day that the Lord brings His wrath upon the Earth is also a 24-hour day. None of them that you mentioned is more than a 24-hour day. And I must tell you that the Earth isn't going to be melted, nor the elements, during this next resurrection. That will happen during the second resurrection or second death, whichever words you prefer. No, man will inherit the Earth and live here again for thousands of years. Probably two or three thousand years. Then the elements shall be burnt up. See your Bible.

In Rev. 20:5KJV, it says what you need to hear. The meek shall inherit the Earth and the Earth shall be a beautiful place to dwell in for at least a thousand years. After that, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, hell, which is the center of our Earth. Our Earth is round, so there is no bottom. Only a top and a center. Because of gravity, we all think we are on top of the Earth, and we are. There simply is no bottom, thus the bottomless pit or Hell. It is very hot there, with magma and lava as a description of it. But the real problem will be the lake of fire, where Satan will be cast after this last chance he is given. Our Sun is the lake of fire. It is much hotter there than our Hell in the center of our Earth. Satan doesn't want to go there, so he is fighting an uphill battle in which he will not succeed, because our God is greater than him. See Rev. 19:20KJV and Rev. 20:10KJV. I wish I could post much more that I know here on this thread, but it is a lot of work. So I reveal things slowly. It is best that you don't learn so much too fast. You all don't understand the scriptures, even though they have been recorded for you to help you learn and know. It's understandable though, definitely.

God created full grown trees in the garden of Eden within one day. They had many rings most likely, but man does not understand. God made things that took years to make and He created them in an instant, or one day. If God had to plant saplings of trees in the garden of Eden, it would have to wait 5 years for the trees to grow enough to bear plenty of fruit for Adam and Eve to eat. This Earth seems older than 6,000 years too, but don't let that surprise you. God created it at the age that He wanted it to be or project. You must know that He didn't create a baby Adam and a baby Eve, and wait for years until they were grown to be with each other in Eden. Instead God created a young man and woman, instead of a baby. He also created the chickens before the eggs. So if anyone ever asks you what came first, the chicken or the egg, say Chicken, for that is what God first created...an adult chicken. Same with adult bison, buffalo and mastodons. He didn't created them all as babies.

Man can only fathom things in some scientific way, and man is forever wrong. All because they do not factor in God into their equations. It is hard to discuss, but scientists are just men, like us all. They make mistakes and figure it's okay, because the truth will come out sooner or later. So they don't care if they perpetuate lies or misnomers. They can always say, oh, well we were wrong. Yippee!! They will all go to a place they wish they hadn't and the children of God shall go to the place created just for them. Jesus said 'I go and make a place for you in Heaven, for in my Father's Kingdom, there are many mansions. Jesus is going to prepare them a place on the planet Venus, whether any of you like it or not. Earth shall fling into Mars' place and Venus will fling to Earth's place. This is why Jesus said, "I am the bright and morning star." See Rev. 22:16KJV. See Rev. 2:28KJV. 'and I shall give you the morning star {Venus} even as I received it from my Father.' That's what it boils down to. Do you understand now why there is more going on than you realize. These are things kept from the knowledge of scientists. This is getting long, so I will cut things short. I must admit though that Jesus said, In my Father's House are many mansions. These mansions are places like Andromeda and Neptune, etc. God keeps their spirits warm because they don't need the Sun for heat. Oh well, this is another can of worms to open. I'm just saying that, yes, there are many mansions.

The Lord has been very good to me and has taught me many things. This is because I am one of His two olive trees. Only God knows who the other witness is. It is His trump card. And Venus shall escape the elements burning up and shall be cast out far from being burnt, for God gives it to Jesus. God would not give it to Him and then take it away. This is where the New Jerusalem shall be. It will be Spectacular. Like nothing we've ever seen before. We will not need a sun or moon, for God and Jesus will be all of the light and heat we will need. So even though we are in a frigid cold Universe, we shall still remain warm and giving off light. You see, each soul is filled with an energy, our essence, our light. With millions of us in one place, we shine as a star does. Okay, I'm saying that the spirit of life which God has put into our souls, will be our sustenance. I'm getting too far for you to fathom, so I will quit here.

Much Love, In Jesus Christ,

Michael

Hi Michael,

I'm sorry but I don't believe all that stuff about Venus. I spoke to another person once in depth many times, and he believed a man called dr. Frank Stranges who taught that Jesus was in Venus. And people live in Venus and that we have a hollow earth and were others live. I'm afraid this isn't the truth.

All those things that you have quoted from revelation have a deeper meaning and it's so simple is nothing like what many think.

For example, Jesus told the parable of the good seed, and said that the sower cast it into the ground, the ground is our hearts. We are the earth.

People try too hard to work out the things of God, and just like the parable of the sower the things of the kingdom of God are simple and easy to understand they aren't really hard, but only if we have the ears to hear. God gives revelation to the heart of those who love and obey him, who do his will and don't live after the flesh. That's all he wants us to do, he wants us to love. Firstly to love him with our all, then to bring his love which is in our hearts to everyone we meet. And if Christ is truly in our hearts, then this is what we will be doing because God is love and Jesus Christ came and showed the love of God in his life and in his word. And his way is the only way to follow, he is the truth and his life is the only life by which we live he is our perfect example for us to follow.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Hi Michael,

I'm sorry but I don't believe all that stuff about Venus. I spoke to another person once in depth many times, and he believed a man called dr. Frank Stranges who taught that Jesus was in Venus. And people live in Venus and that we have a hollow earth and were others live. I'm afraid this isn't the truth.

All those things that you have quoted from revelation have a deeper meaning and it's so simple is nothing like what many think.

For example, Jesus told the parable of the good seed, and said that the sower cast it into the ground, the ground is our hearts. We are the earth.

People try too hard to work out the things of God, and just like the parable of the sower the things of the kingdom of God are simple and easy to understand they aren't really hard, but only if we have the ears to hear. God gives revelation to the heart of those who love and obey him, who do his will and don't live after the flesh. That's all he wants us to do, he wants us to love. Firstly to love him with our all, then to bring his love which is in our hearts to everyone we meet. And if Christ is truly in our hearts, then this is what we will be doing because God is love and Jesus Christ came and showed the love of God in his life and in his word. And his way is the only way to follow, he is the truth and his life is the only life by which we live he is our perfect example for us to follow.

Dear marhig,

It's okay if you don't believe. And why don't you believe Jesus when He says, "I am the bright and morning star in Rev. 22:16KJV. What exactly do you think Jesus means by it? Venus is the bright and morning star. Also see in Rev. 2:28KJV, "And I will give him the bright and morning star." I know that Jesus is currently sitting next to God on the right hand side in His Throne. Oh, the things that I could tell you. God's Great White Throne is our Moon and He watches over us all as He goes around the Earth every 24 hours. It's His Heavenly Body. When we leave our Earthly body, we are given a heavenly body. This is why Daniel said in Dan. 12:3KJV, "And those who turn many to righteousness SHALL BE as the STARS forever and ever. The stars are the warehouses of the angels. I don't mean to dump everything on you like this, but I am just trying to help you understand. Look at a full moon sometimes and see if you see two craters for eyes, and one for a nose, and one for a mouth. It is only God's Heavenly Body. When He comes in an Earthly body, He looks like Jesus did. He created man in His image. I don't want you to be rattled about all of this and I'm just telling you so that you might understand what is going on behind your back. I do know of what I am speaking. God will reveal Himself when He parts the heaven's clouds and there you will see the ark of His testament, or in other words, where He dwells. Of course, He is also everywhere, for His spirit is within everything. But His base station for now is our Moon.

Our angels see everything we do and say, and think, and it is recorded by them for God to have an immediate assessment of each person. See Rev. 6:14KJV, Rev. 11:19KJV and most of all, Rev. 20:11KJV. The host of Heaven are the angels and servants of God are given a heavenly body to live upon. Their countenance of God's Spirit in them causes them to shine like light. Oh well, I have told you enough already. These are secrets that God wants to let them be known. See Rev. 10:7KJV, "and the days of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, that the mystery of God shall be finished as He hath declared to His servants, the prophets. Now you don't have to believe me of course, but I am telling the honest truth. When God lets you see the 4th dimension, you will see those things that have been hidden from you and then you will believe me. I tell you what you are going to find out very soon, and it will then be proven to you. God has been extremely generous with what He's given me to know, but I've had to pay dearly for it. To spare all of you the hardship of learning things the hard way. Okay, I'll shut up for a while. Search your Bible and read what is written. Thanks for bending your ear my way and thank you for posting here.

May God Watch Over You And Keep You Joyful!!

Michael

 

[marhig]

Dear marhig,

It's okay if you don't believe. And why don't you believe Jesus when He says, "I am the bright and morning star in Rev. 22:16KJV. What exactly do you think Jesus means by it? Venus is the bright and morning star. Also see in Rev. 2:28KJV, "And I will give him the bright and morning star." I know that Jesus is currently sitting next to God on the right hand side in His Throne. Oh, the things that I could tell you. God's Great White Throne is our Moon and He watches over us all as He goes around the Earth every 24 hours. It's His Heavenly Body. When we leave our Earthly body, we are given a heavenly body. This is why Daniel said in Dan. 12:3, "And those who turn many to righteousness SHALL BE as the STARS forever and ever. The stars are the warehouses of the angels. I don't mean to dump everything on you like this, but I am just trying to help you understand. Look at a full moon sometimes and see if you see two craters for eyes, and one for a nose, and one for a mouth. It is only God's Heavenly Body. When He comes in an Earthly body, He looks like Jesus did. He created man in His image. I don't want you to be rattled about all of this and I'm just telling you so that you might understand what is going on behind your back. I do know of what I am speaking. God will reveal Himself when He parts the heaven's clouds and there you will see the ark of His testament, or in other words, where He dwells. Of course, He is also everywhere, for His spirit is within everything. But His base station for now is our Moon. Our angels see everything we do and say, and think, and it is recorded by them for God to have an immediate assessment of each person. See Rev. 6:14KJV, Rev. 11:19KJV and most of all, Rev. 20:11KJV. The host of Heaven are the angels and servants of God are given a heavenly body to live upon. Their countenance of God's Spirit in them causes them to shine like light. Oh well, I have told you enough already. These are secrets that God wants to let them be known. See Rev. 10:6, "and the days of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, that the mystery of God shall be finished as He hath declared to His servants, the prophets. Now you don't have to believe me of course, but I am telling the honest truth. When God lets you see the 4th dimension, you will see those things that have been hidden from you and then you will believe me. I tell you what you are going to find out very soon, and it will then be proven to you. God has been extremely generous with what He's given me to know, but I've had to pay dearly for it. To spare all of you the hardship of learning things the hard way. Okay, I'll shut up for a while. Search your Bible and read what is written. Thanks for bending your ear my way.

May He Watch Over And Keep You!!

Michael

Before I read anymore, bright and morning star is the first light, Jesus the Christ is our first light, it's nothing to do with Venus.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Before I read anymore, bright and morning star is the first light, Jesus the Christ is our first light, it's nothing to do with Venus.

Dear marhig,

Go and believe what you wish. I'm not forcing you to believe me. Thanks for posting. Pray.

May The Lord Be With You As You Learn,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

OK, Michael, I realize there are people who feel it is their obligation in life to continually ram their perverse ideas into the faces of others. I hadn’t realized you were one of those sorry specimens. So go ahead, preach, threaten, beg – whatever gives you the jollies you relish – but be aware that I can ignore your posts a lot faster than you can excrete them.

Dear redfern,

Thank you for your affirmation on my writing what I want to in my posts. You do not surprise me. I've dealt with similar people as you, but they usually come around. You'll find out that I'd rather be your friend than not. It's a shame. I love people quite deeply and I live my life for them and their benefit and good will towards them. If you don't want to be friends, what can I really do? It's a bummer.

God Be With You And Send His Love To You,

Michael

 

[6days]

why did you bring up (Louis Pasteur's) name?

I had said "Common ancestry beliefs have never been a positive force in developing vaccines and antibiotics.". I used Pasteur as an example. There is evidence that Pasteur rejected Darwins common ancestry beliefs - even 'Skeptic' magazine seems to admit this. In a book called 'History of Medicine', John Tiner wrote "Pasteur rejected the theory of evolution for scientific reasons. He was the first European scientist to do so. Healso rejected it on religious grounds”

Also Darwin tried to explain nature without a Creator.
Pasteur seen nature as evidence of a creator.

Darwin used his beliefs to write books on his interpretation of origins.
Pasteur used his beliefs to found the science of microbiolgy...develop vaccines...proved germ theory...invented pasteurization etc.

 

[gcthomas]

I had said "Common ancestry beliefs have never been a positive force in developing vaccines and antibiotics.". I used Pasteur as an example. There is evidence that Pasteur rejected Darwins common ancestry beliefs - even 'Skeptic' magazine seems to admit this. In a book called 'History of Medicine', John Tiner wrote "Pasteur rejected the theory of evolution for scientific reasons. He was the first European scientist to do so. Healso rejected it on religious grounds”

The evidence I have seen says that Pasteur accepted the great age of the world and the fact of evolution (and hence common ancestry), but he didn't accept natural selection as the mechanism. (The theory of evolution is not the same as the fact of evolution, of course.)

(I know he was a theist, and that is fine. The theory of evolution is not an atheist plot, and is accepted by many religious people with the ability to think clearly about evidence)

Yet you continue to claim he rejected common ancestry, and have continually avoided the simple expedient of providing some evidence - a simple quote would be fine.

Also Darwin tried to explain nature without a Creator.

This has been so thoroughly debunked, with direct, clear quotes from the man himself, you must be hoping that if you lie enough then the debunking will be forgotten. Wrong.

 

[Jose Fly]

Also Darwin tried to explain nature without a Creator.
Pasteur seen nature as evidence of a creator.

I'm starting to wonder if you're ever going to put up a post that doesn't contain lies.

 

[gcthomas]

I'm starting to wonder if you're ever going to put up a post that doesn't contain lies.

He is like Trump - could we bring in Politifact to help here?

 

[6days]

The evidence I have seen says that Pasteur accepted the great age of the world

That may be. At one time essentially every scientist had compromised on that.

*and the fact of evolution (and hence common ancestry)

Thats more than a bit dishonest. Pasteur discussed change within organisms. He never mentions anything of common ancestry. *In fact Pasteur said "Do not put forward anything that you cannot prove by experimentation." I believe that was his answer in response to a question about 'evolution'.*

The theory of evolution is not an atheist plot, and is accepted by many religious people with the ability to think clearly about evidence)

I think the Pope said something similar to Galileo. Fortunately science trumps secular opinions.*

Yet you continue to claim he rejected common ancestry, and have continually avoided the simple expedient of providing some evidence - a simple quote would be fine.

I have provided quotes from others...even from 'Skeptic' magazine. Pasteur, it would seem was often rejected by evolutionists since he didn't 'buy in'.*

Funny thing is GC, you have provided no quotes suggesting Pasteur believed in common ancestry. If you have been getting your info from atheist site Talkorigins, you will notice they say "Pasteur wrote little on the subject of evolution or creation. He was apparently skeptical of the popularity of Darwin's theory, but he accepted evolution." *(Evolution*is change in the heritable characteristics of biological populations over successive generations... change within created kinds)

Also Darwin tried to explain nature without a Creator.

This has been so thoroughly debunked, with direct, clear quotes from the man himself, you must be hoping that if you lie enough then the debunking will be forgotten. Wrong

*
Darwin grew more bitter towards God with age and eventually considered himself somewhere between atheist and agnostic.*It isn't difficult to find atheist sites saying things like "However, he (Darwin) *felt that science should be objective in nature, and was careful to keep any reference to God or a creator out of his work"... Wow... thats exactly what I said...'Darwin tried to explain nature without a Creator.' Wrong?...nope

 

[Jose Fly]

Another post by 6days, and another repeated lie...

'Darwin tried to explain nature without a Creator.' Wrong?...nope

Yep, and you know it too.

"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved."--Charles Darwin, Origin of Species

 

[GavLewisThinker]

Trying to explain life without God makes sense, however if you look at all the evidence for creation then you draw the conclusion that God created everything. If you look at the evidence for Evolution then you see more truth. Right? Actually, no. You will see some...holes in the "evidence" for Evolution. A good book for the scientifically advanced, who are wondering who is right, is "Refuting Evolution". In that book, it examines both sides of the question. It also goes into detail about what problems the "evidence" for Evolution are. Another good book, for the less scientifically advanced, is "It Couldn't Just Happen". In that book it shows evidence for both sides and points out the problems with Evolution. I have read both and suggest that you do too. Btw I am not intending to advertise these books, it just happened. [emoji23]


Sent from my iPad using TOL

 

[6days]

Trying to explain life without God makes sense, however if you look at all the evidence for creation then you draw the conclusion that God created everything. If you look at the evidence for Evolution then you see more truth. Right? Actually, no.

Welcome to TOL

 

[6days]

*Darwin grew more bitter towards God with age and eventually considered himself somewhere between atheist and agnostic. It isn't difficult to find atheist sites saying things like "However, he (Darwin) *felt that science should be objective in nature, and was careful to keep any reference to God or a creator out of his work"... Wow... thats exactly what I said...'Darwin tried to explain nature without a Creator.'

Yep, and you know it too.

Thanks Jose for the quote from his first book. As said above, Darwin did become bitter and more hostile as he aged. Like the atheist quote from above, Darwin tried to explain nature without mention of God. This was different from Pasteur who seen nature as evidence of a creator.

Perhaps those two different worldviews is why Darwin ended up writing books on his beliefs about origins. Pasteur meanwhile used his beliefs to found the science of microbiolgy...develop vaccines...proved germ theory...invented pasteurization etc.

 

[gcthomas]

Louis Pasteur said, quite clearly, that religion played no part in his science, nor should it:

"But, gentlemen, in such a subject, rather than as poetry, pretty fancy and instinctive solutions, it is time for science, the true method resumes its duties and exercise. Here, it takes no religion, no philosophy, no atheism, no materialism, no spiritualism. I might even add: as a scholar, I do not mind. "

Which part of this don't you understand, 6days? Have you got anywhere finding a quote where he says he USED his religion in his science, in contravention of his very clear policy not to so so? I'm waiting.

 

[MichaelCadry]

I must also mention that God IS the One Who brings the cold fronts to meet up with the warm fronts. Who created the frigid cold or glaciers? Who created the very warm air from the Sun that God brings it to move against cold fronts? Who created the Sun? Who brings the tornadoes? And the typhoons and hurricanes? And the hail from the sky because of an unusually cold front. Why is it written in our Bible saying that God sends lightning, and great thunders across the sky? That's some hot lightning!! Hotter than the surface of the Sun!! Isn't that something?!! Who is like the son of man who rides each cloud with a sickle? To reap the spirits of men and women who are ready to end their works on Earth and begin their works in Heaven? Who causes the Earth to quake to differing degrees? God does! Who created the tectonic plates? And the friction involved? And for those plates moving against each other with such forth to cause a mountain? Join or part continents? It's certainly NOT Mother Nature. Or Father Time. Give me a break! Do you actually think that all of these things come into being by themselves??

Think About It All,

Michael

 

[Interplanner]

As the series says, it flunks:

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/33/t/how-evolution-flunked-the-science-test

Two days ago there was a presentation just on bees that is to biology what THE PRIVILEGED PLANET is to astrophysics. Undeniably designed and created in a moment.

 

[6days]

Louis Pasteur said, quite clearly, that religion played no part in his science, nor should it:

"But, gentlemen, in such a subject, rather than as poetry, pretty fancy and instinctive solutions, it is time for science, the true method resumes its duties and exercise. Here, it takes no religion, no philosophy, no atheism, no materialism, no spiritualism. I might even add: as a scholar, I do not mind. "

Which part of this don't you understand, 6days? Have you got anywhere finding a quote where he says he USED his religion in his science, in contravention of his very clear policy not to so so? I'm waiting.

We already discussed that quote GC. I said that creationists would agree with it, depending how you define religion. Notice in that quote Pasteur is objecting to materialism. IOW Pasteur objects to scientists who have a starting bias of 'no God'...also a form of religion (atheism).
Pasteur performed science believing there was purpose and design, evidence of our Creator "The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator.”

 

[6days]

As the series says, it flunks:

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/33/t/how-evolution-flunked-the-science-test

Two days ago there was a presentation just on bees that is to biology what THE PRIVILEGED PLANET is to astrophysics. Undeniably designed and created in a moment.

I didn't see the show, but bees have tiny brains but amazing 'language' skills through dance...Amazing design!