Could You Train Yourself To Enjoy...

[glassjester]

Yeah, pop psychology can be as boring as a lot of pop music...

Ha!

I could learn to like it, then.

 

[glassjester]

Yeah, pop psychology can be as boring as a lot of pop music...

In all seriousness, though, I am basing my claim on experience.

There's been several times that I've made a genuine effort to learn to like a certain song or artist. And it's worked every time.

Have you ever tried to do that?

 

[Tambora]

Music you find boring?

Foodstuffs you recoil at?

Reality TV if you cringe at it?

This is an offshoot from a conversation with Glassjester where he proposes that people can train themselves to enjoy things they have an aversion to. I say it's bunk and there's no evidence to support it.

Thoughts?

Sometimes.

 

[glassjester]

Sometimes.

Haha, yes.

Thread winner.

 

[musterion]

Depending on what the hangup is, the question is, what would be the point?

Until my 30s, the idea of eating au gratin potatoes literally sickened me only because when I was 10 or so, I happened to evidence flu symptoms right after eating some for dinner. Before that point I liked them fine -- but after puking them halfway across the room (through no fault of Betty Crocker's) I could not stand the sight, smell or even the thought of eating them. Could I now? I know that I could but even now there's something in the base of my brain that says "nope."

So even though I know the revulsion is irrational and in fact know exactly where the aversion came from...and knowing I could overcome it easily...what would be the point in trying to deprogram myself? I'm not really missing much.

 

[Arthur Brain]

In all seriousness, though, I am basing my claim on experience.

There's been several times that I've made a genuine effort to learn to like a certain song or artist. And it's worked every time.

Have you ever tried to do that?

Yes, and it's not worked every time.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Sometimes.

How did you train yourself to do that, and why?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Haha, yes.

Thread winner.

How about addressing post #39 GJ?

lain:

 

[glassjester]

How about addressing post #39 GJ?

lain:

Woops, missed it. Alright.

 

[glassjester]

Have you ever been blown away by a piece of music GJ?

Yes.

Where it comes to arguing that people can train themselves to enjoy things then sure you did. You said I could do that with Beyonce songs. Are you seriously going to backtrack from that now?

I'm not backtracking at all.
But to be clear - I did not say you could train yourself to like or disline any piece of music at any point in time.

And why the hell would I have done any of that when I was mesmerized by a piece that I certainly didn't "choose" to be transfixed by?

You had no reason to "try" not to like it.

But if, for some reason, you didn't want to like that music - you could have done any of those things I mentioned (and probably a number of other things, too).

How would you know whether I'd like it or not years down the line? I didn't choose to like the piece to begin with.

If you had shut it off 5 seconds in, never found out the name of it, and never heard it again?
I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like it now, because you wouldn't even know about it.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Yes.

Did you choose that? To be blown away by it?

I'm not backtracking at all.
But to be clear - I did not say you could train yourself to like or disline any piece of music at any point in time.

So what kind of period of time would you be estimating then for this 'training process' to take effect? You did argue that I could train myself to enjoy beyonce songs after all.

You had no reason to "try" not to like it.

I had no "say" in liking or not liking it whatsoever. It simply blew me away. No choice in loving it, none at all. Do you get that?!

But if, for some reason, you didn't want to like that music - you could have done any of those things I mentioned (and probably a number of other things, too).

:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

Ok, are you just trolling me now? There was no CHOICE in liking it!!!!

If you had shut it off 5 seconds in, never found out the name of it, and never heard it again?
I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like it now, because you wouldn't even know about it.

And you base that on what? The tape recorder could have blown up five seconds in and I wouldn't know anything about the piece. On what basis can you be 'pretty sure' I wouldn't enjoy it on first proper hearing thirty years later? Go on, give details as to why a piece I would have loved as a kid would suddenly be the opposite as an adult.

lain:

 

[glassjester]

Did you choose that? To be blown away by it?

I chose to keep listening.
I chose to listen again.

If I hadn't freely chosen to do those things, I would never have further explored the artist or genre.

So what kind of period of time would you be estimating then for this 'training process' to take effect? You did argue that I could train myself to enjoy beyonce songs after all.

I don't know, man. A few weeks?

That's about how long it takes me when I try to like a song that my wife insists on playing while we're in the car.

I had no "say" in liking or not liking it whatsoever. It simply blew me away. No choice in loving it, none at all. Do you get that?!

Yes, totally.
I've been there.

:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

Ok, are you just trolling me now?

No.

And you base that on what? The tape recorder could have blown up five seconds in and I wouldn't know anything about the piece. On what basis can you be 'pretty sure' I wouldn't enjoy it on first proper hearing thirty years later? Go on, give details as to why a piece I would have loved as a kid would suddenly be the opposite as an adult.

Alright, I think you misunderstood what I meant.

I did not mean that if you heard it again as an adult, that you wouldn't like it.

I meant that if you'd turned it off right away, and never listened to it again, and never found out who composed it - then you wouldn't be saying right now, "Hey, I really like Stravinsky's Rite of Spring."

 

[Arthur Brain]

I chose to keep listening.
I chose to listen again.

If I hadn't freely chosen to do those things, I would never have further explored the artist or genre.

Not what I asked. Did you CHOOSE to be blown away by a piece of music? No, you didn't.

I don't know, man. A few weeks?

That's about how long it takes me when I try to like a song that my wife insists on playing while we're in the car.

Get this man. I would sooner hack my head off with a spatula than endure weeks of Beyonce type crap. It was bad enough hearing the bloody radio blaring out chart pap all day long at work.

Yes, totally.
I've been there.

So what the hell is this "no reason to try not to like it" crap about?!

No.

So what's the following rubbish about then?

"But if, for some reason, you didn't want to like that music"

There was no wanting to like or not like. No decision making, no volitional conscious choice whatsoever. Got that? Has that penetrated that infuriatingly obstinate bonce of yours yet? If so, good.

If not, don't even bother responding as you either are trolling at this point or just too bat crazy to pursue this further.

Alright, I think you misunderstood what I meant.

I did not mean that if you heard it again as an adult, that you wouldn't like it.

I meant that if you'd turned it off right away, and never listened to it again, and never found out who composed it - then you wouldn't be saying right now, "Hey, I really like Stravinsky's Rite of Spring."

But I could theoretically be saying I liked Beyonce songs instead?

You're all over the place with this and I've had enough for now.

 

[glassjester]

Not what I asked. Did you CHOOSE to be blown away by a piece of music? No, you didn't.

No, of course not.
But I'm saying my choices shape my musical taste.

Get this man. I would sooner hack my head off with a spatula than endure weeks of Beyonce type crap. It was bad enough hearing the bloody radio blaring out chart pap all day long at work.

So you hacked your head off at work?

So what the hell is this "no reason to try not to like it" crap about?!

What I mean is, if you began hearing The Rite of Spring (and it was mindblowing and all), and for some reason you thought to yourself, "Woah, I'm liking this a lot, but I really don't want to get into this type of music." Then you'd have shut it off.

So what's the following rubbish about then?

"But if, for some reason, you didn't want to like that music"

Like maybe you just had some disdain for the genre or something.
Or you had parents who told you it was the devil's music.

You never had something you liked, but wished you didn't like it?
I like ice cream, but I wish I didn't, because I'm insanely lactose intolerant.

I can remember, as a teenager, hearing some very catchy boy-band type music that my sister had on. But I didn't want to like that stuff - because that's little sister music! Since I didn't want to like that type of music, I didn't try to find out the name of the song, I didn't learn the words, I didn't repeatedly listen to it.

My choice to not "get into" that music, shaped my musical taste.

There was no wanting to like or not like. No decision making, no volitional conscious choice whatsoever. Got that? Has that penetrated that infuriatingly obstinate bonce of yours yet? If so, good.

Yes. I already understood that.

If not, don't even bother responding as you either are trolling at this point or just too bat crazy to pursue this further.

I don't think I'm crazy.
But then again, that's exactly what a crazy person would say.

I can assure you I'm not "trolling" you.

But I could theoretically be saying I liked Beyonce songs instead?

You could, if you decided for some reason that you wanted to get into Beyonce's music.

I've seen guys get into music that a girl likes because they want to like the same music as her.
Maybe if there was a really beautiful woman who just couldn't ever be with a man that wasn't into Beyonce - you might be motivated. Who knows?

I'm just saying it's possible.

 

[ok doser]

So you hacked your head off at work?

explains a lot, don't it? :chuckle:

 

[glassjester]

explains a lot, don't it? :chuckle:

Well, I wasn't trying to make crack about Arthur being stupid. I don't think he is. I do find myself to be pretty dense sometimes, though.

I meant to point out that right after he said he'd rather hack his own head off than listen to pop music for a few weeks, he said that he listened to pop music on a daily basis for a presumably longer time period. Yet, his head remains intact.

 

[ok doser]

Well, I wasn't trying to make crack about Arthur being stupid. I don't think he is. I do find myself to be pretty dense sometimes, though.

I meant to point out that right after he said he'd rather hack his own head off than listen to pop music for a few weeks, he said that he listened to pop music on a daily basis for a presumably longer time period. Yet, his head remains intact.

musta used duct tape :idunno:

 

[Arthur Brain]

No, of course not.
But I'm saying my choices shape my musical taste.

Well it doesn't work that way with me, nor for most I would venture. If a piece of music hits I could care less what genre it's in or whether it's popular or not.

So you hacked your head off at work?

Well, obviously not and I was just exaggerating to make the point. I'd just zone it out for the most part and look forward to getting back home so I could crank up the Hi-fi and play me own stuff.

What I mean is, if you began hearing The Rite of Spring (and it was mindblowing and all), and for some reason you thought to yourself, "Woah, I'm liking this a lot, but I really don't want to get into this type of music." Then you'd have shut it off.

What sane reason would I have for doing that?! None. The capacity to appreciate the piece wouldn't just dissipate because for some moronic reason I chose to switch it off. This is like the 'perfect pitch' thing again. I could "pretend" to not recognize the notes on a scale but it would be a completely pointless endeavour.

Like maybe you just had some disdain for the genre or something.
Or you had parents who told you it was the devil's music.

Eh, music isn't limited by prejudice or ignorance and I certainly don't place limits on it. If music hits it hits and there's nothing you can do about it. I was brought up on classical music and it wasn't too popular with my parents when I started listening to electronica and industrial rock etc as well. Still loved and still do love a lot of classical but if I can be transfixed by a cement mixer going off on occasion then my sound world is not of my own doing or choice.

You never had something you liked, but wished you didn't like it?
I like ice cream, but I wish I didn't, because I'm insanely lactose intolerant.

I have a friend who loves cheese but can't eat it on pain of an impending migraine. Ironically you're making my argument for me with this. You have a sane reason for not eating dairy products but you haven't "chosen" not to like them have you?

I can remember, as a teenager, hearing some very catchy boy-band type music that my sister had on. But I didn't want to like that stuff - because that's little sister music! Since I didn't want to like that type of music, I didn't try to find out the name of the song, I didn't learn the words, I didn't repeatedly listen to it.

My choice to not "get into" that music, shaped my musical taste.

If you enjoyed it you enjoyed it. You were already into it. Are you saying you could "choose" to not find the exact same track catchy if you heard it again?

Yes. I already understood that.

I don't think I'm crazy.
But then again, that's exactly what a crazy person would say.

I can assure you I'm not "trolling" you.

Well, you say you understand this but yet you still argue the following which really means you don't really understand my position at all. I'll grant that you're not purposely trolling but you bloody well are infuriating.

You could, if you decided for some reason that you wanted to get into Beyonce's music.

I've seen guys get into music that a girl likes because they want to like the same music as her.
Maybe if there was a really beautiful woman who just couldn't ever be with a man that wasn't into Beyonce - you might be motivated. Who knows?

I'm just saying it's possible.

For the umpteenth time, no, I couldn't. I could pretend to enjoy it just as I could pretend to enjoy a myriad things if I had an underlying motive for it which is really the extent of your argument here. It's not much of one if you actually look at it objectively GJ.

 

[glassjester]

For the umpteenth time, no, I couldn't. I could pretend to enjoy it just as I could pretend to enjoy a myriad things if I had an underlying motive for it which is really the extent of your argument here. It's not much of one if you actually look at it objectively GJ.

I don't know, man.

The "mere exposure effect" is a thing.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sapient-nature/201201/familiarity-breeds-enjoyment

We tend to like stuff more, as we become more familiar with it.

And the effect has even been shown to work with music.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3217963/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9796224

 

[Arthur Brain]

I don't know, man.

The "mere exposure effect" is a thing.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sapient-nature/201201/familiarity-breeds-enjoyment

We tend to like stuff more, as we become more familiar with it.

And the effect has even been shown to work with music.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3217963/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9796224

If familiarity bred enjoyment then not only would I love Beyonce by now, I'd probably have James Blunt, Take That and a whole load of other pop pap in my "music" collection. It doesn't and I don't.

Familiarity - as the proverb aptly goes in this case - bred contempt...