Lol, oy vey - He is referring to those guiltless of what those not showing them mercy for, were not showing them mercy for - their Prophets: whom they had often condemned and plotted against; for example.
Lol - I've long lost track of how many passages you and Tam have been reading things into, towards your argument on this thread.
My comment was a joke. Like I said, you are newer here. There was a poster here, well, he is still here, he doesn't post any more. Before the post purging he had 50,000 posts. He was robotic. He did not study the Bible, he studied commentaries. He also said "google may also help".
I could bring you up to speed with some ridiculous things people have said on TOL if you want. Some of it is really funny. Some of it is dangerous because they try to pull people from the faith.
And 1 John, as well as the rest of the writings to the circumcision are not for us. They are all useful for study, as all scripture is. But not our doctrine. Especially Hebrews.
I am not suggesting we disobey because Adam disobeyed I am saying men are born with a sin nature as a result of Adam's disobedience
Ok... Nick... First... I am Jewish by blood and I had to learn the "Torah" growing up...
But... second... I know I'm going to catch hell for this... but I am a fire breathing Zionist of biblical proportions
scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
You are making a grave error and exalting the teachings of MEN with your words.
Romans 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
YET sinners?
5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Romans 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
As for God's dealings with Adam and Eve after The Fall, and or the basis of His dealings with them despite their enmity in their flesh, from that Fall's point, forward?
The coming Cross of Christ was His basis.
Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
In His forbearance, as He looked ahead to the Cross, and to that day wherein He would announce the following, He passed over their sin.
Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
At this time?
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Evil.Eye.<(I)>;4985627]Sin Nature? Again... Adam was a picture of one "without" a Sin Nature... lest we now say the Almighty wanted us to sin... and yet... he "sinned". What gives? :idunno:
Um... did you word this correctly? Jesus did "need" to have an "Earthly" mother to accomplish this... (Heb. 2:14) ... am I misunderstanding you or did you accidentally make a typo?
I'm not in discussion of the remedy yet, as I believe people have totally missed the "Cause" for the "Need" of the remedy. But... lets evaluate this...
Sin Nature passed down through "Adam"... This is interesting, because Adam sinned and according to your premise, God created Adam with a "Sinless Nature", but once Adam "Sinned", we inherited this "Sin Nature". Again... here is the "I'm" a cripple argument. We all screw up... YES! But did God ensure we would "Screw Up"? Or is there only ONE that is actually GOOD and perpetually RIGHTEOUS in the "Flesh"? "Good Teacher"... "Why do you call ME GOOD"? "Only God is GOOD"... (Jesus winking from the very pages of scripture at us)
Removed the Nature of Sin from the FLESH of Jesus? That's interesting... Because scripture says He was "Tempted in every manner that we are", yet HAD NO SIN. Either God magically made that "SIN NATURE" go away and "Rigged the Deck", or God is the only being that is fully RIGHTEOUS in the FLESH and capable of living a SINLESS life. Hmmmmm.... I know God had no SIN. This is obvious. But, perhaps you are undercutting the underlined point of "NOT BEING LIKE GOD". Only God is GOOD. Do you "See" it?
Because Adam laid his life down in recognition of his "Love" for EVE. He willingly disobeyed! He couldn't defeat Death, but he could embrace "Death" with Eve.
Do you Note that Jesus is cited as the very meaning of the "Bronze Serpent" in John 3? Who was the real curse? Who's Power did Jesus overturn? I'm just not buying the rhetoric that is undercutting the fact that WE ALL FALL SHORT of the (Heb. 1:3). I don't need an excuse to mess up... I simply do. But by the GRACE of GOD, there Go I.
oic... How's that inability to take personal responsibility going for you?
There goes Hebrews 4:16 ... and what about ... (1 John 2:1) ... Shoot ... How about (1 John 1:8) or Hebrews 4:15? What gives Dodge? This wording doesn't seem to gel with actual scripture.
How is this anything imputed by Adam? Didn't we see this in Adam "As Well" and without the excuse of a nifty "Sin Nature"? Don't ALL FALL SHORT of the Heb. 1:3?
offered the forbidden fruit to Adam and he ate HE DID NOT HAVE TO. You are placing the blame on Satan when it was Adam who DISOBEYED God .Hasn't this been my OP point? Who committed the "Original Sin"? Who did Christ "Defeat"? Adam? Heb. 2:14.
Are you sure you don't simply Sin because we make mistakes and are blessed with Free Will and a Loving God that desires SINCERITY over HUMAN PERFECTION?
I mean... Yes... Jesus was Fully HUMAN, but HE was also FULLY GOD... (With a limited Foreknowledge... might I add... after all... only the FATHER knew.) But isn't the point that HE ALONE is our propitiation found in this... (2 Tim. 2:13)
Because God numbered the years of mankind. We also were protected from the impact of immortal lives that would have been steeped in and impacted by the WISDOM of Good and Evil... did you catch that...? Knowledge is an "Idea", but Wisdom "carries experience".
So... God rigged every human life's deck for failure, because of Adam? I'm still not buying it. I'm fine with ALL FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY of GOD, so expecting ourselves or others to BE LIKE GOD is utterly "WORTHLESS".
Indeed... When He Judges, it is steeped with perfect "GOOD WISDOM", LOVE, MERCY and HUMILITY, thus He alone is "Worthy" to be Judge.
Why... it makes sense that the 24 elders cast their CROWNS at His feet, if you look at it that way.
When you say this... people assume you speak of "Carnal" righteousness and jump on the idea that we are "works" based. This is hilarious, because you are clearly emphasizing our ability to choose to walk with Christ.
If what the Augustine crowd insists was true, then Enoch would not have been able to walk so closely with God that He was taken "Home" with God.
It's funny how the very people that attribute "wickedness" to God, are continually looking to attack those of us that seek to Glory the perfection of Jesus' Love for all humanity and His perfection of Justice, Humility and Mercy!
If we are born with a sin nature, then Adam was, too, because he sinned just like we do.
Why don't you just admit that "sin nature" is actually "human nature"?
Put simply, the doctrine of original sin is the foundation of all false doctrine. The very idea gives man an EXCUSE and God says we have none. Worse, it does despite to our great and Righteous God.
There is no Jew or gentile in Christ. The Lord divorced national Israel over adultery. He has made promises that he says he will keep. But that is not now.
Why would you catch hell for this? Those things do not apply to me. Or anybody today. The modern state of Israel is not of God. He did not place them there.
No kidding. So what. Do you offer up a bull without spot or blemish? Why or why not. Did you build a 300 cubit long chest? Why or why not. It still isn't for you, even though we study it.
No, those are the words of Paul. Sorry you don't know.
Galatians 2
7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter
Paul and his doctrine is found Romans through Philemon. And you study it and Acts of the Apostles in parallel, you will find things that are not for today. Like power over the flesh from Baptism with the Holy Spirit.
God cursed the serpent, and He cursed the ground.
Augustine Original Sin... takes away mans ability to naturally "SEEK GOD". This again proves that we are capable of "Seeking God out" and in doing so, are grasped by God through our "Faith".
Augustine Original Sin denies this and shows man to be incapable of "Seeking Righteousness" or in more specific terms... Seeking God out through "Faith" in his Goodness, Mercy and Love.
God also killed animals to cover Adam and Eve with skins and He also kicked them out of the garden of Eden. He also made child bearing painful and placed women under the authority of men.
Gen 3:16
¶
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Yes, and it's why we must fight against it.
You didn't answer my question, and I don't dismiss using scripture for doctrine. I told you Hebrews is not for me. That is using scripture for doctrine. Now, did you build a 300 cubit long wooden chest for salvation from a flood? Are you not really using all scripture for your doctrine?
In deep understandings of wickedness and the originator of wickedness, it is always said that "children" are the favored target of wickedness personified. The corruption of a child's faith in the goodness of God and the Loving nature of God is what I believe God is speaking of here... (Matthew 18:6)
Google may also help.