Hebrews 12:5-11 concerns the Christians life, (sanctification). We are still here on this sinful planet in our unredeemed Adamic bodies that are prone to sin. As far as our salvation (justification) goes we are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. Chastisement helps us to persevere in the faith. Fear of God can be a good thing.
Christians are "ALREADY" Perfect and Complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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HEBREWS concerns the HEBREW life.
Beginning is chapter 1:
"The fathers" in verse 1 refers to the fathers of ISRAEL.
The US in verse 2 refers to ISRAEL.
The "great salvation" in verse 3 is NOT talking about eternal life. It is talking about the salvation of the nation of ISRAEL.
This is the SAME salvation spoken of here is Luke:
Sanctification is NOT the same as justification.
Your blurred view of God's plans is full of immense confusion.
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Never said that it was.
SANCTIFICATION: God's work in us by the Holy Spirit. The Christian life.
JUSTIFICATION: God's work for us by Jesus Christ. Our salvation.
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You used the word "sanctification" to which you immediately put "justification" in parentheses. What else would a reader of your post think that you meant?
So you do not know what either word actually means... got it.
You should start reading the Bible without your religious blinder on.
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The two scriptures that you referenced are subjective, which means this is something that the believer does, which every Christian should do.
When we accept Christ as our savior God seals us with the Holy Spirit and spiritually places us "In Christ" Ephesians 1:13. We now belong to Christ. We have been bought. We are now "In Christ" and Christ is in heaven. The word "Sanctification" means to set aside for a purpose. We now belong to Christ for his purpose. This is what sanctification means.
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How are those two scriptures "subjective"?
You think that every believer should "Sanctify ye a fast, call a solemn assembly, gather the elders [and] all the inhabitants of the land [into] the house of the LORD your God, and cry unto the LORD,"?
So now you have a DIFFERENT definition of the word "sanctification".
There are many different "sanctification's" in the Bible, as there are many different "setting asides" for many different purposes.
Are you done changing the definition now?
Never did change the meaning. Sanctification is the Christians life, it is the results of being indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Spiritually, we are sanctified "In Christ". We are "In Christ" and Christ is in heaven, Colossians 3:3. Yes, there are many sanctifications in the Bible, but we are talking about Christians and their relationship to Christ. Any thing that people do is subjective. Being sanctified "In Christ" is not subjective because it is a work of God.
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No, it is not. You need to allow the BIBLE to inform you.
How does this make "those two scripture subjective"?
Your definition of "subjective" is very subjective.
ttruscott
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Yes, true and it is how an inanimate object can be called holy though it has no volition to choose holiness. But to be holy like the LORD our GOD is holy is to be holy by our free will, our volition, and is only fulfilled when we are by our own volition sinless, to never sin again due to being trained in righteousness, Heb 12:5-11.
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"an inanimate object called holy"? That is just plain silly.
You are lost if you think that you will "improve yourself" to become sinless.
To sanctify anything is to declare that it belongs to God. It may refer to persons, places, days or seasons. Sanctification begins when we first accept Christ as our savior and is on going in the life of the believer. The mark of God's ownership is the Holy Spirit. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13. There is no unsealing, once sealed always sealed. We become "New Creations" in Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17. Our old life of sin was crucified with Christ, Romans 6:6. This is all a work of God in the life of the believer. "For we are his workmanship, created in Jesus Christ unto good works, which God has ordained that we should walk in them" Ephesians 2:10.
ttruscott
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If this is ALL that sanctification means, ie no choice of the individual involved, only GOD's choice, then why were some angels chosen for sanctification, ie holiness (same meaning), and not all?? Mark 8:38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the HOLY angels. IF becoming a sinner proves Satan's and Adam's free will then becoming holy proves the free will of these angels!!!
If the Satanic fall was his reputation of YHWH as GOD by his free will, then it stands to reason that the holiness of the other angels was due to their free will decision to accept HIM as their GOD.
The Bible teaches that angels have a free will. There was war in heaven and one third of the angels were cast out of heaven to the earth, because they rebelled against God, Isaiah 14:12-15. I don't believe that we "Become" sinners. Because of Adam we are "MADE" sinners. King David said that he was born a sinner, Psalm 51:5. The scripture says, "For as by one man's disobedience many were MADE sinners" Romans 5:19.
ttruscott
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Plug Romans 5:19 into Strong's concordance and you will find that one of the meanings of καθίστημι, kathistēmi - MADE (ie, created to be) is to show or exhibit one's self or to come forward as already a sinner. Thus this verse is NOT PROOF that the GOD who is light creates HIS bride as evil, darkened to the point of utter degradation: Isa 64;6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
In fact Rom 5:19 supports the pce interpretation that before our conception we chose by our free will to become HIS elect and then sinned against HIM and then were sown into this world, Matt 13:36-39, as PROOF we are sinners already at conception, ie, showing ourselves to be sinners already by being conceived as human.
But hey - if you want to believe in the god who creates his bride as evil rather than the GOD who is light with no darkness (evil) in HIM, so be it.
I champion a HOLY GOD:
Light cannot create darkness.
Love cannot create HIS bride or anyone as evil.
Period.
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God did not create Adam as a sinner. Adam was created as innocent and by his own free will chose to sin against God. Because we are all descendants of Adam we have all inherited Adams sinful nature. It is not our fault that we are sinners, its Adams fault. However, its our fault if we don't trust in Christ to save us. Romans 5:12.
Don't know what you mean by PCE. The Bible says, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all of sinned" Romans 5:12.
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Clete was quoting ttruscott and asking what it means.
ttruscott
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GOD has told us many times that no one dies (suffers, goes to hell) for the sins of another.
Deut 24:16, Jeremiah 31:30, Ezekiel 18:20. It is an injustice to account a person guilty of the crimes of another...this doctrine blasphemes GOD's goodness and righteousness with these assertions.
ttruscott
Well-known member
Lev 16:4 ...these are the holy garments.
EX 40:9 Take the anointing oil and anoint the tabernacle and everything in it; consecrate it along with all its furnishings, and it shall be holy. 10 Anoint the altar of burnt offering and all its utensils; consecrate the altar, and it shall be most holy. 11 Anoint the basin and its stand and consecrate them.
Consecrate: make or declare (something, typically a church) sacred; dedicate formally to a religious or divine purpose.
Sacred: something is sacred when it is Holy and worthy of honor and reverence.
Our improvement comes by the harsh discipline of the Lord to train us in righteousness: Heb 12:5-11.
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