Theology Club: "Christendom" Defined

[Nang]

Where in the N.T. is "Christendom" defined? Or is it?

What is the Dispensational definition of "Christendom?"



Nang

 

[Right Divider]

Maybe you could give us a hint as to what you are talking about. I use the term in the pejorative sense when I talk about the majority view of mixed up "Churchianity".

 

[DAN P]

Where in the N.T. is "Christendom" defined? Or is it?

What is the Dispensational definition of "Christendom?"



Nang

Hi , and will you know what DIATHEKE/COVENANT means in Eph 2:12 and many will see and compare its meaning for today !

dan p

 

[heir]

What is the Dispensational definition of "Christendom?"

:idunno:

Christendom: dom, religious, but lost people who call themselves Christens that are in a denominational system of bondage courtesy of the mystery of iniquity that doth already work as a result of their believing not the word of truth and their failure or flat out refusal to rightly divide it

Maybe you could give us a hint as to what you are talking about. I use the term in the pejorative sense when I talk about the majority view of mixed up "Churchianity".

Yep! That's it!

 

[Nang]

:idunno:

Christendom: dom, religious, but lost people who call themselves Christens that are in a denominational system of bondage courtesy of the mystery of iniquity that doth already work as a result of their believing not the word of truth and their failure or flat out refusal to rightly divide it

Yep! That's it!

Who and what was Jesus teaching about in Matthew 13:1-52?

 

[intojoy]

Everything within Christianity both orthodox and heretical.

 

[Nang]

Everything within Christianity both orthodox and heretical.

So you believe Christ was teaching in Matthew 13, that the "Kingdom of Heaven" is both true and false?

 

[steko]

When I hear the word 'Christendom' I think of the Augustinian concept of God's Kingdom being the present church on earth, which in Augustine's time was well on its way to becoming a merger of church and state. This gave rise first to a postmillennial view and then later when things weren't turnin' out so good, to an amillennial view.

Also, when I hear the word 'Christendom', I think of all those lost souls who call themselves Christians who believe that Christianity all boils down to the Sermon on the Mount, and then try to use it for a Marxist social reform.

There is one true Body of Christ and believers are baptized by one Spirit into the one Body. If one has not the Spirit of GOD, that one is none of His.

 

[intojoy]

So you believe Christ was teaching in Matthew 13, that the "Kingdom of Heaven" is both true and false?

Is that a question?
Jesus made a literal offer of the kingdom to Israel. A literal earthly kingdom.

 

[Nang]

When I hear the word 'Christendom' I think of the Augustinian concept of God's Kingdom being the present church on earth, which in Augustine's time was well on its way to becoming a merger of church and state. This gave rise first to a postmillennial view and then later when things weren't turnin' out so good, to an amillennial view.

Did Augustine or the early church fathers, ever teach that the one church of Jesus Christ; described as the "Kingdom of Heaven" by Christ Himself, was only temporary and would eventually corrupt in its inherent wickedness?

Such is Scofield's definition of "Christendom."

Also, when I hear the word 'Christendom', I think of all those lost souls who call themselves Christians who believe that Christianity all boils down to the Sermon on the Mount, and then try to use it for a Marxist social reform.

There is one true Body of Christ and believers are baptized by one Spirit into the one Body. If one has not the Spirit of GOD, that one is none of His.

MADists have different ideas on this subject, due to the bad influence and commentaries of Darby, Scofield, Bullinger, et.al.

 

[intojoy]

The false doctrines within Christiandom are explained by the parables. Roman Catholicism, Greek Orthodox and Protestantism each have degrees of false doctrine.

 

[Nang]

Is that a question?

You betcha!

Jesus made a literal offer of the kingdom to Israel. A literal earthly kingdom.

You believe the parables of Matthew 13, were an "offer" of the Kingdom of Heaven?

To whom?

And if literal and "earthly," why is the teaching about a kingdom of HEAVEN?"

Upon what basis, do you see it being "offered" rather than being proclaimed, revealed, and taught?

 

[Nang]

The false doctrines within Christiandom are explained by the parables. Roman Catholicism, Greek Orthodox and Protestantism each have degrees of false doctrine.

O.K.

If you say so, please explain how Matthew 13 describes all the above.

 

[steko]

Did Augustine or the early church fathers, ever teach that the one church of Jesus Christ; described as the "Kingdom of Heaven" by Christ Himself, was only temporary and would eventually corrupt in its inherent wickedness?

Such is Scofield's definition of "Christendom."





MADists have different ideas on this subject, due to the bad influence and commentaries of Darby, Scofield, Bullinger, et.al.

I'm not entirely Mad.

I came to my understanding of scripture through much study and prayer over thirty-five years. Somewhere during the middle of that stretch, I found that others had arrived at a similar understanding and I found that to be labeled under the category of Dispensational.
I arrived at my conclusions, not by studying prominent Dispensational teachers, but by simply reading the word with a literal, historical, grammatical hermeneutic. I reject the super-imposed allegorical hermeneutic of Origen>Augustine>Covenantalism. One definitely has to learn that from others and would never find it by simply reading the Bible literally.

 

[Nang]

I'm not entirely Mad.

I came to my understanding of scripture through much study and prayer over thirty-five years. Somewhere during the middle of that stretch, I found that others had arrived at a similar understanding and I found that to be labeled under the category of Dispensational.
I arrived at my conclusions, not by studying prominent Dispensational teachers, but by simply reading the word with a literal, historical, grammatical hermeneutic. I reject the super-imposed allegorical hermeneutic of Origen>Augustine>Covenantalism. One definitely has to learn that from others and would never find it by simply reading the Bible literally.

Well, I came to the Covenantal view, by simply and repeatedly reading the Bible promises repeated from Genesis to Revelation.

The emphasis of my OP is questioning the definition of "Christendom" and directed to MAD advocates.

My OP has been viewed by almost 1100 souls, and how many MAD believers have answered?

I would almost think 1100 views, to a direct question, in a specific Forum, garnering only a handful of responses, must be a TOL record of some sort.

???

 

[intojoy]

O.K.

If you say so, please explain how Matthew 13 describes all the above.

My bad.
The offer of the literal kingdom was rescinded in mt12
13 describes the kingdom in mystery form which is temporal to be replaced by the literal kingdom.

I'm surprised you've never heard of this

 

[Nang]

My bad.
The offer of the literal kingdom was rescinded in mt12

Where? How?

13 describes the kingdom in mystery form which is temporal to be replaced by the literal kingdom.

I'm surprised you've never heard of this

I have heard all this before.

I am asking MADists to define exactly what they teach, and I appreciate your honest answer.

So far, you say Matthew 12 teaches a rescinded "literal" kingdom . . . of what? The literal earthly kingdom of David, or the literal Kingdom of heaven?

Then you switch to Matthew 13 teaching a tempory, mystery kingdom . . a worldly, temporal christendom or a temporal and wicked Kingdom of heaven?

Several holes in all this, I am sure you are aware.

 

[Right Divider]

You believe the parables of Matthew 13, were an "offer" of the Kingdom of Heaven?

To whom?

No, the offer of the kingdom did not come until Acts 3. Up to that point is was always preaching "the kingdom AT HAND".

Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mat 10:5-7 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (7) And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
​

And if literal and "earthly," why is the teaching about a kingdom of HEAVEN?"

Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.​

The kingdom of HEAVEN comes TO EARTH.

Upon what basis, do you see it being "offered" rather than being proclaimed, revealed, and taught?

Act 3:19-21 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; (20) And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: (21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
​

No, this did NOT happen in 70 AD.

Act 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. (10) And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; (11) Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.​

He will COME BACK in the SAME MANNER that He LEFT. Physical, bodily, clouds, same LOCATION. See Zechariah 14:4.

 

[Nang]

No, the offer of the kingdom did not come until Acts 3. Up to that point is was always preaching "the kingdom AT HAND".

Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mat 10:5-7 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (7) And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
​

Do you believe the "Kingdom of Heaven" that Jesus taught was at hand, in Matthew 13, is the same Kingdom Peter preached in Acts 3?

Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.​

The kingdom of HEAVEN comes TO EARTH.

Amen! Do you believe this is the same Kingdom of Heaven taught in parables in Matthew 13?

Act 3:19-21 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; (20) And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: (21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
​

No, this did NOT happen in 70 AD.

I believe the above speaks of the 2nd Advent. It seems we agree.

Act 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. (10) And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; (11) Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.​

He will COME BACK in the SAME MANNER that He LEFT. Physical, bodily, clouds, same LOCATION. See Zechariah 14:4.

Agreed.

 

[Right Divider]

Do you believe the "Kingdom of Heaven" that Jesus taught was at hand, in Matthew 13, is the same Kingdom Peter preached in Acts 3?

Is there some reason to believe that it is not?

Amen! Do you believe this is the same Kingdom of Heaven taught in parables in Matthew 13?

Is there some reason to believe that it is not?

I believe the above speaks of the 2nd Advent. It seems we agree.

It's pretty hard to miss.

Agreed.

:jump: