Christ the risen Saviour, not potential Saviour !

[aikido7]

In the Bible, salvation is mostly concerned with something that happens in this life.

Even in the New Testament, the primary meaning of the word "salvation" is transformation in this life.

One can see this in the roots of the English word salvation, which comes from "salve," which is a healing ointment.
Salvation is about healing.

We all grow up wounded, and salvation is about the healing of the roots of existence.

 

[ok doser]

In the Bible, salvation is mostly concerned with something that happens in this life.

 

[aikido7]

When I use the word “Salvation” I strive to find out what it meant when Jesus was alive.

 

[beloved57]

In the Bible, salvation is mostly concerned with something that happens in this life.

Even in the New Testament, the primary meaning of the word "salvation" is transformation in this life.

One can see this in the roots of the English word salvation, which comes from "salve," which is a healing ointment.
Salvation is about healing.

We all grow up wounded, and salvation is about the healing of the roots of existence.

Did you read the OP ?

 

[aikido7]

Did you read the OP ?

I mostly read the New Testament--usually with my Parallel Bible--to track Christianity as a developing tradition.

For me, the God of Jesus is the “norm” of the Bible.
The God of his later followers and even the God of Rome are interesting to trace the historical patterns and thus see the text in its original ancient context.

What did atonement, salvation, resusrrection, etc. actually mean in Jesus’ day?
Has our modern understanding of these words obscured their original meanings?

“The past is a foreign country. They do things differently there.”
--L.P. Hartley

 

[SabathMoon]

In the Bible, salvation is mostly concerned with something that happens in this life.

True.

Even in the New Testament, the primary meaning of the word "salvation" is transformation in this life.

It means rescue from death.

One can see this in the roots of the English word salvation, which comes from "salve," which is a healing ointment.
Salvation is about healing.

Not quite. The Israelites were saved from Egypt; the apostles and early church were saved from Judah.

 

[aikido7]

I am tried to communicate the ancient meaning of the word “salvation” and the Greek root of it comes from “salve,” a healing ointment. I failed utterly.

I just want to repeat that salvation is much, much different than the word “save.”

You can say Joseph was saved from the pit his brothers threw him in.
You can argue that Creation was saved by Noah.
You can say that Moses was saved from the Pharoah.
Or Israel was saved by David from Goliah--or saved by Elhanan instead--from the giant.

But “saved” in these instances has nothing to do with Christianity’s modern overlay of the original word “salvation."

Sometime during the 18th or 19th century, Christianity hijacked the word “salvation” and said it has something to do with getting to heaven.
Salvation’s original meaning from Jesus’s time belies our “modern up-to-date” change of meaning.

 

[beloved57]

I mostly read the New Testament--usually with my Parallel Bible--to track Christianity as a developing tradition.

For me, the God of Jesus is the “norm” of the Bible.
The God of his later followers and even the God of Rome are interesting to trace the historical patterns and thus see the text in its original ancient context.

What did atonement, salvation, resusrrection, etc. actually mean in Jesus’ day?
Has our modern understanding of these words obscured their original meanings?

“The past is a foreign country. They do things differently there.”
--L.P. Hartley

Rabbit Trail

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

 

[aikido7]

Rabbit Trail

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

It’s often more comfortable when learning new information to disregard it and mischaracterize it.
Our minds can only take in so much--especially when it goes against what we are told by authority.

QUESTION AUTHORITY !!!
AND WHEN AUTHORITY ANSWERS, LISTEN !!!

 

[beloved57]

Its a disgrace to the Name of Jesus Christ to teach Salvation is merely a possibility or potential through Him.

Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now who are His People here ? Lets look at Jn 17:1-2

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life or save to as many as thou hast given him.

These persons , some of mankind, not all, were given to Jesus Christ by His Father to save or to give eternal life to. These are His People.

Again Jn 6:37-39

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

There is nothing potential about Christ Saving His People from their sins. Theres nothing about Jesus Christ merely making Salvation possible. Jesus saved all whom His Father purposed to be saved by Him !

 

[Nanja]

Its a disgrace to the Name of Jesus Christ to teach Salvation is merely a possibility or potential through Him.

Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now who are His People here ? Lets look at Jn 17:1-2

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life or save to as many as thou hast given him.

These persons , some of mankind, not all, were given to Jesus Christ by His Father to save or to give eternal life to. These are His People.

Again Jn 6:37-39

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

There is nothing potential about Christ Saving His People from their sins. Theres nothing about Jesus Christ merely making Salvation possible. Jesus saved all whom His Father purposed to be saved by Him !

Amen Brother, it is a disgrace indeed to refer to Christ as simply being a potential saviour, based upon some action performed by sinful men.

In God's eternal purpose, all His elect Chosen People in Christ Eph. 1:4-11 Given to His Son, their Risen Saviour, were already absolutely and positively saved from their sins even from eternity 2 Tim. 1:9. So it is to them exclusively that Salvation was given: All those the Father Purposed to Give Eternal Life to in His Son, shall come to Him John 6:37, their risen Saviour.

Eph. 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

 

[beloved57]

Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

In these last and evil days the Christ of scripture has been sorely misrepresented by mans religion, for they make him out to be a possible saviour, a contingent saviour, based upon the performance of a condition by man.

However that's not the Saviour Christ of the scripture revelation, far from it. The Jesus Christ of scripture is a Saviour because He shall save [not all without exception] His People from their sins, its a word of promise, therefore conditioned on God in Christ alone !

 

[beloved57]

The True Christ of the scripture, His intention in coming and dying wasnt to make Salvation potential, possible and all that , but to to be a full Saviour and to save sinners ! Here is the testimony of one who was an unbeliever and blasphmer 1 Tim 1:13-15

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Does this sound like Paul preached a potential Saviour ?

 

[beloved57]

Christs objective in giving Himself for those He died, wasnt to make their deliverance possible, but to actually deliver them from the evil world according to the will/purpose of God Gal 1:4

Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

That word will is the greek word thelēma:

what one wishes or has determined shall be done

1. of the purpose of God to bless mankind through Christ

Does any of this will of God sounds potential ?

 

[Derf]

Christ is A Saviour/Redeemer for each and every sinner He died for and was raised again for. When He having finished His work for them, He for them obtained eternal redemption/salvation Heb 9:11-12

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.


The word redemption lytrōsis:

1. a ransoming, redemption
2. deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin
   
   He obtained for them deliverance from the penalty of sin, which is death See Rom 6:23, hence its impossible for them to go into the second death
   
   Rev 20:14
   
   And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
   
   
   The second death is for the penalty of sin charged against them.

I’m sure you have me on ignore, but we are not saved from the second death until we are saved from the first death. And EVERYONE is saved from the first death. The second death is not the penalty for sin—the first death is. EVERYONE is not saved from the second death.
Thus God was accurate when He said the penalty for eating of the wrong tree was death, and He didn’t say it was 2 deaths.

This explains why

Now does this verse state that Christ is a potential Saviour to all men ? No it doesnt, but it says God is Saviour of all men, especially of those [men] who believe !

Jesus saved all men from death #1, for all will be resurrected. He ESPECIALLY saved those who believe from death #2.

You are right that He’s not a POTENTIAL savior to all men. He’s an ACTUAL savior to all men from death #1. But He’s only a potential savior to all men from death #2—based on whether they believe or not, according to your scripture reference.

 

[Derf]

Rabbit Trail

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

This has to be the best post I’ve ever seen from you B52! Keep up the good work.

 

[beloved57]

Christ is far beyond a mere potential Saviour, for He saves by His Grace those He died for, He intercedes for to the uttermost, from all their sins, from their unbelief and disobedience and preserves them to Glory Heb 2:10; Heb 7:25

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.​

 

[Nanja]

Christ is far beyond a mere potential Saviour, for He saves by His Grace those He died for, He intercedes for to the uttermost, from all their sins, from their unbelief and disobedience and preserves them to Glory Heb 2:10; Heb 7:25

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.​

Amen Brother, praising God !

 

[JudgeRightly]

Christ is far beyond a mere potential Saviour, for He saves by His Grace those He died for, He intercedes for to the uttermost, from all their sins, from their unbelief and disobedience and preserves them to Glory Heb 2:10; Heb 7:25

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.​

Who does he "save to the uttermost"?

Them . . . that come unto God by Him.

How does one come? By the preaching of the gospel.

Those who DON'T come won't be saved to the uttermost, not because they weren't chosen arbitrarily before the foundation of the world, but because they refused to come when they were called.

 

[beloved57]

Who does he "save to the uttermost"?

Them . . . that come unto God by Him.

How does one come? By the preaching of the gospel.

Those who DON'T come won't be saved to the uttermost, not because they weren't chosen arbitrarily before the foundation of the world, but because they refused to come when they were called.

Those He died for and makes intercession for.