Shalom.
Today is Shlishli, 11-21. It is Yom, Day, until sundown, as with the calendar day.
The word abolish or abolished is not used of the Law so it is inappropriate to say that it is.
Shalom.
Jacob
"Christ is the End of the Law" Romans 10:4
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
- Status
Shalom.
Today is Shlishli, 11-21. It is Yom, Day, until sundown, as with the calendar day.
The word abolish or abolished is not used of the Law so it is inappropriate to say that it is.
Shalom.
Jacob
There is nothing more that I can show you that the law has been abolished. The evidence is overwhelming. You will believe in the judgment when God tells you. But then it will be to late for you.
The Bible plainly says that the law was nailed to the cross, Colossians 2:14.
What is the handwriting of requirements that was against you?
I do not understand your reply to my post. What were you responding to?
Shalom.
Jacob
Are the feasts according to the law, Pate? Yes, or no-it is a simple question.
That is not a reference to God's holy law, Pate, as you keep satanically asserting, as you've been shown by me, and others.
What was nailed to the cross?
"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances (which is the law) that was against us, which was contrary to us (no one could keep it or do it) and took it out of the way, NAILING IT TO HIS CROSS" Colossians 2:14.
The debt of the law was blotted out and nailed to the cross.
You don't have to be a theologian to understand that, just a Christian.
"The debt of the law was blotted out and nailed to the cross."
That is what I have/others have been pointing out to you, for weeks, Pate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!The debt,"I O U,"......was nailed to the cross, not the law itself, nor was the law abolished.
You want to see all of my posts, where I expounded on that to you, but you denied it?
No, you don't.
I am glad , however, that the LORD God finally showed it to you.
But you messed up, again-what is wrong with you?
No, the handwriting of ordinances is not the law.
How dense can you be?
The ordinances are the law. All of the Old Testament is law. If it tells you to do something or not to do something it is law.
Point 1:
No, the reference to "ordinances are not a reference to God's holy law, as you've been shown, over, and over.You cannot keep your story straight, idiot.
He says that the law was abolished at the cross...over, and over...
Post #65
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...fe-and-Death-of-Christ-for-the-Believer/page5
Then, he finally, for the first time, on TOL, as I/others, have been telling him, that "the debt of the law was blotted out at the cross," but, like an idiot, makes the law equivalent to the debt of the law.
And he is calling me "dense?" You're an idiot. Of course, you cannot have a sin debt, without a law, to define what sin is.
Get it, Pate? Rhetorical q.
Get your story straight. The law is not equivalent to the sin debt of the law, Pate,and “the handwriting of requirements" is not the law.
Correct....but not the law...Again..One more time, to protect the sheep/babes, from your lies:
What was nailed to the cross is described as “the handwriting of ordinances"-that was against us, which was contrary to us.” Because “ordinances” sounds like “law,” some, like sloppy Pate, twist the meaning of “nailed it to the cross” into Paul saying the force of the law of God ended at the death of the Lord Jesus Christ.
The writ of charges...
In using the words “handwriting of requirements … contrary to us … nailed it to the cross,” Paul was describing the record of our sins, the indictment that required the penalty of death.
No, the indictments against believers, the charges against believers, the legal indebtedness against believers – was what was dropped, and nailed to the cross at the Lord Jesus Christ's death, rather than the law itself, which is consistently characterized in Scripture as eternal, and good...To wit:
Romans 7 KJV
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
“handwriting,”=a memorandum of debt, "a writing by hand" used in public and private contracts.
The wages of our sins—our debt—is death (Romans 6:23). The Lord Jesus Christ was willing to pay that debt by dying in our place, thus blotting out the record of our debt and pardoning our sins.
Survey the "death warrant" against us, because of our sin/sins is the sign that Pilate had nailed to the cross upon which the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified. John 19:19-22 KJV-It was customary to publish a writ of charges against the condemned, and the board above the Lord Jesus Christ's head was inscribed with the charges for which the Jewish authorities demanded His death. Thus, it was a Roman custom, to write the name of the condemned person and his crime on a plaque to be placed above his head at the execution. Survey Mark 15:26 KJV-"superscription of his accusation."
26 And the superscription of his accusation was written over, The King Of The Jews.
The charges removed-the meaning, then, of Colossians 2:13-14 KJV, based upon the immediate and the broader context is: You gentile believers had a death sentence against you due to your sin/sins-here are the charges............... But through the dbr, everything that one time could have been held against you has been removed.
The law against believers? No, it wasn’t God’s law that was against believers; it was the sins that they committed, as defined by that same holy, good law!. "the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"= anything written by hand, but can more specifically apply to a legal document, bond or note of debt, was against us!!!!
Paul is relaying that the LORD God has "wiped out," removed, "nailed to the cross," through the body of Christ , representing mankind's guilt, the instrument for the remembrance of sin. The legal basis of this instrument was the "binding statutes," Col. 2:14 KJV, but what the LORD God destroyed on the cross was not the legal ground, the law, for our entanglement into sin, but the written record of our sins. By destroying the record of sins, the LORD God removed the possibility of a charge ever being made again against those who have been forgiven-a dead man is not under jurisdiction to the law.
" Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"
The above-a handwritten acknowledgement or note of debt, something like an I.O.U. When the debt was paid in full, the handwriting was invalidated by piercing it with something sharp like a nail.
This "handwriting" was also used in the case of the crucifixion or punishment of a criminal. All the charges of which the person had been found guilty, were written on a piece of parchment, and nailed to the cross on which the person convicted of those crimes would be crucified. Everyone could then see why he was hanging there and what he had done to deserve such a cruel punishment.This written indictment/charge/accusation are seen in John 19:19-20: accusations that were hung on the cross, on which the Lord Jesus Christ hung:
19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was Jesus Of Nazareth The King Of The Jews.
20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
The "accusing witness," so to speak, against the sinner, the record book of his sins, the certificate of debt, or book of debt, was removed/nailed. The Lord Jesus Christ has "erased" it, removed it out of the court, out of the witness chair of the accuser. Not only is this record of our sins removed, but it is also "nailed to the cross" in the sense that the Lord Jesus Christ took our sins upon himself, and paid the penalty for them...Survey 2 Cor. 5:21 KJV.
Moreover, pardoning someone for committing a capital crime, doesn’t do away with the law that was broken. If anything, it shows that the law carries force, for without the pardon, the criminal would die!
In the same way, the law of God carries force since breaking it (committing sin) requires the death penalty. The law is that powerful, that important. It is holy. People aren’t saved from that which was against them (the death penalty) by doing away with the law. What saves people from death is the death of the Lord Jesus Christ in the place of those who trust 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.
In fact, the wording Paul employed Colossians 2:13-14 showed that the law of God continues to carry great force. By saying the penalty demanded under the law of God was nailed to the instrument that killed the Lord Jesus Christ, Paul was showing that the law of God was still in force, still requiring death for sin.
By contrast, if the law had been brought to an abrupt end by the death of the Lord Jesus Christ, from that point on, nothing would be “against the law”-duh! Nothing could be called “sin.” Of course, we know that is not true. Sin exists, which means the law that calls it “sin” also exists!
Point 2:
Colossians 2:14 KJV Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Survey Hebrews 7:15-16 KJV And it is yet far more evident if, according to the likeness of Melchisedec there arises another priest,Who is made, not according to the law of a carnal commandment, but according to the power of an endless life.
Survey Hebrews 9:9-10 KJV Which was symbolic for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him who did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Which stood only in meat and drink offerings, and various washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed until the time of reformation.
God's law is not carnal,....the problem is with man....To wit, Paul...
Romans 7 KJV
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
The Lord Jesus Christ nailed to the cross what was contrary to him...
Ephesians 2:15 KJV "the law of commandments contained in ordinances;"
Colossians 2:14 KJV "the handwriting of ordinances"
Hebrews 7:16 KJV "the law of a carnal commandment"
Hebrews 9:10 KJV "carnal ordinances;"
What the Lord Jesus Christ abolished was carnal/fleshly commandments and ordinances, and hand written ordinances=that is the context..= the decrees of exclusion established by men, which were rooted in enmity between Jew & Gentile,such as “touch not, taste not, handle not”(survey Colossians 2:21 KJV), man-made social class/caste system set in place by Oral Torah, and Jewish leaders, attempting to keep a social and religious difference between Jews and Gentiles. Ordinances/decrees were laws that were man-made. Paul was referring to man-made orders, in this verse through the term “ordinance”. These “ordinances” were, yes, indeed hostile/”hate”/”enmity”, as they restrained anyone other than “Jews” worshiping God. These ordinances made a clear separation between Jew and Gentile, by elevating one above the other, to an “elite status,” to the extent where gentiles were looked down upon, scorned, and disassociated, by Jews everywhere………..
John W
What the law is to the Jew, Jesus Christ is to the New Testament Christian.
The law has been abolished and has been replaced by Jesus Christ. This is why Paul said,
"Christ is the end of the law for righteousness" Romans 10:4.
Paul said, "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith is come WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SCHOOLMASTER. Galatians 3:24, 25.
The schoolmaster has been replaced by Jesus Christ. This is why, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness" Romans 10:4.
The law is not adequate, this is why it was abolished, Hebrews 8:7.
Jesus is the New Covenant and the new and living way, "The letter (law) kills but the Spirit brings life" 2 Corinthians 3:6.
Living by faith and the Holy Spirit is the way that God wants us to live. "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17 Not by laws and rules.
What the law is to the Jew, Jesus Christ is to the New Testament Christian.
The law has been abolished and has been replaced by Jesus Christ. This is why Paul said,
"Christ is the end of the law for righteousness" Romans 10:4.
Paul said, "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith is come WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SCHOOLMASTER. Galatians 3:24, 25.
The schoolmaster has been replaced by Jesus Christ. This is why, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness" Romans 10:4.
The law is not adequate, this is why it was abolished, Hebrews 8:7.
Jesus is the New Covenant and the new and living way, "The letter (law) kills but the Spirit brings life" 2 Corinthians 3:6.
Living by faith and the Holy Spirit is the way that God wants us to live. "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17 Not by laws and rules.
No, it has not-you just spammed that satanic assertion, from your father, the devil. No scripture asserts that God's holy law has been abolished, including your satanic citing the verses you claim say that it was abolished/no longer exists, you wicked deceiver, wolf, and Paul would call you a grievious wolf.
The actual sense is that what has been abolished is that part of the Law that was FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
BUT NOW the righteousness OF GOD WITHOUT the Law...FOR Righteousness.
In the following, Paul reminds Peter and company of this very distinction...
Galatians 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
In other words, the intended "end of the law for righteousness" had been...
Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
In other words...
Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
See that?
The Law for righteousness had had that as its intended end.
And having proven all the world guilty before God...
3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
The one intended "end" towards pointing to another intended "end" - Christ: the only means of righteousness.
2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
In short - Rom. 5: 6-8 - in EACH our STEAD.
The law does not have parts, it is one entity. If you fail one of the commandments, you have failed the whole thing.
Jesus Christ has replaced the law. "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness" Romans 10:4.
No scripture says that He replaced/abolished/destroyed/made void/eliminated/ended/vanished God's holy law,despite your satanic, made up assertions, from hell.
Besides all the other scriptures, I/others, have given Pate, to refute his satanic "doctrine,"......
1 Corinthians 7:19 KJV Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
Although the context of the above is not pertaining to Paul arguing that "keeping of the commandments of God" leads to justification-nor do I. But the above, again refutes Pate's made up assertion, that God's holy law has been replaced/been abolished/been destroyed/been made void/been eliminated/ended/vanished-it still existed "post cross," and exists, today.
Beware of John W. His objective is to put Christians under the law and in doing so pervert the Gospel of Christ.
"Christ is the end of the law for righteousness" Romans 10:4.
We are no longer under the law, nor are we subject to it. If you become subject to it, Christ will profit you nothing.
You satanic pawn, with your false accusations. Show me where I said Christians are under the law, admitted devil child-show me, admitted satanist-my posts.
You won't, habitual liar, admitted closet Calvinist Catholic. You vile wolf-get off this site, as you litter it. And get saved, wolfie.
=satanic deception, straw manning deceit, as the admitted devil pawn equates not being under the law, not subject to it, which I showed him, as equivalent to the LORD God having replaced/abolished/destroyed/made void/eliminated/ended/vanished God's holy law-no scripture says that, and certainly not Romans 10:4 KJV, despite his satanic "interpretation"/distortion, from his daddy devil-=Pate's satanism.
- Status